911 - I've seen the light!

[67Dino]

Welcome aboard. I’ve no doubt the 911 is the best car in the world. I’m on my fifth…

[Slippydiff]

LemonTart said:

Gosh Julian do you ever read any of your responses / posts back to yourself before pressing the Submit button?

Judging by some the gems he posts, I’d say rarely, if ever.

[julian987R]

LemonTart said:

Gosh Julian do you ever read any of your responses / posts back to yourself before pressing the Submit button?

Well there was complete agreement with me then, so figured I'd mention it again in a different thread. but yep I have made that point before. won't mention it again. best regards

[MrVert]

Words fail me…..if only you’d join in with that premise

[anonymous-user]

Getting back to the topic, I’m impressed at how clever the packaging of the 911 is. There’s enough room for my luggage and passengers for 99% of occasions (now my kids are above school run age the times when I’ve had more than one passenger are very few) and if I ever have a particularly large consignment of toner to deliver I can always borrow my wife’s car

[S600BSB]

Tobermory said:

Getting back to the topic, I’m impressed at how clever the packaging of the 911 is. There’s enough room for my luggage and passengers for 99% of occasions (now my kids are above school run age the times when I’ve had more than one passenger are very few) and if I ever have a particularly large consignment of toner to deliver I can always borrow my wife’s car

I use mine to go to go over to my place in France and am always amazed what I can get in it.

[CarDoodle]

First Sea Lord said:

Completely. I remember back in 2009 I test drove the latest M3, C63 and RS4 over a couple of days. All great cars but they didn't quite do it for me. The wife then suggested I try a 911. The next day I test drove a two year old 997.1. Within five minutes I knew I absolutely had to have it. It just felt so good to drive.

Would love to hear more on the comparisons vs E92 M3 & M2 if either of you had anything else to say on it? In a 997.1 just now and love the drive but always plotting a route forward as the children grow bigger!

[anonymous-user]

A few more thoughts a week on.

I fitted the Mr12Volt bluetooth adaptor at the weekend and also replaced the climate control switches that had the usual horrid sticky paint, I've ordered some more PCM knobs as well.

Things I don't like so far:
It would be nice to have a track forward/back button on the steering wheel.
Why don't the steering wheel controls work when the ignition is off?
I find it hard to tell if I have locked the car or not as there is only one door lock button on the remote and no visible indicator in the car.
People in (probably leased at twice the price of the 997) SUV's won't let you in at junctions ;-)

Things I like:
The steering feel is amazing, I'm learning things about roads that I have driven for years. It's really confidence inspiring along side the ability to rotate the car on the throttle, really special and unlike any car I have driven before. That old cliche about the car 'talking to you' actually makes sense. Actually the only other cars I can think of that gives me this level of feed back are the Mono and a Caterham, and they are both much more compromised in other ways. How did Porsche do that?

Why does no one go on about the gearbox? The quality of the gear shift, meaty with a hint of notchiness yet silky smooth, and the perfectly matched clutch action and lack of drivetrain shunt is as impressive as the steering.

The sound of course, throaty yet not too much. Like your dog who will lick you playfully, yet you are aware that he could choose to bite your arm off if he wanted.

It coped with a trip to B&Q to pick up 88kg of gravel at the weekend, so it's practical as well.


I'm seriously considering cancelling my order for the EV6 GT, this might be a keeper.

[Maxym]

997 is a great car. I had a manual .2, a base 3.6 but with 19s and PASM and a few other nice options. Sold it for a new 981 Cayman S PDK because I loved the looks and wanted a more modern interior. Great car though the Cayman was, it didn't sound as good and the electric sterring wasn't a patch on the 997's - sometimes it was nice just to hold the wheel with my fingertips and feel all that was going on.

In theory, if I came across a very good one now it wold suit me very well, I think. But then I'm smitten with my 991T.

[ATM]

Tobermory said:

I haven't driven a 991, but Porsche engineers must have had a few late nights wondering how to improve on this one.

Not sure you need to bother. These have electric steering and it is nowhere near as good as the hydraulic systems. Some people think they are getting better but I'm not sure if that means better than a 997 or just better than rubbish.

[Zumbruk]

Tobermory said:

A few more thoughts a week on.

I find it hard to tell if I have locked the car or not as there is only one door lock button on the remote and no visible indicator in the car.

Irritating, isn't it?

[anonymous-user]

Zumbruk said:

Irritating, isn't it?

Yup, I find myself walking back to check the handle which makes everyone around think I'm just being precious

I had occasion to drive the Honda into London today which was a nice opportunity to compare the two.

Both are very, very special cars. The Honda feels much more 'exotic', it's lower and you have that sensation of sitting at the tip of an arrow. The looks are more dramatic especially in the red/ black combination. The engine noise is closer behind you and has a mechanical whine which turns into a wail as you rev it and the VTEC kicks in. In short it feels like a 90's supercar.

The 997 by contrast feels shorter and narrower (it isn't) and more 'normal' but also just 'right' in its balance. The power steering makes it much easier to park.

The gear change in the Honda is much lighter and switch like, as is the clutch, but the 997 feels deliciously weighty and slick. There's no right or wrong they're just different and both equally effective.

As I mentioned the 997 has more low down torque, but the Honda revs more freely.

The biggest difference is the steering. Bearing in mind that I know the Honda much better (17 years!), I can see why road testers of the day complained that the NSX had numb steering. It doesn't but what it does have is a central area of reduced feel which means that when driving straight, or beginning a corner, you get very little feel. As you turn sharper and the steering weights up it begins to talk to you and then you can judge the cornering grip in a way that must have left Ferrari owners of the day scratching their heads. The NSX gives you feedback when you need it, otherwise it leaves you in peace. I took the NSX to a track recently and was astonished at how easy it was to drive quite hard. I don't think I would have been as brave in the 997.

The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly.

I suspect this was a deliberate decision by Honda, to filter out the feedback when you don't need it , and then then feed it in as you start to require the feel. that makes it a more relaxing and confidence inspiring drive. Porsche I think went for a different approach where the steering talks to you the whole time, like a chatty friend.

I think you could jump in an NSX and drive it faster sooner, while the 997 would take longer to learn. I think that both engineering teams have looked at the same problem and come up with their own individual solutions, and have achieved exactly what they set out to. Both are deeply impressive and complimentary. I wouldn't say one was better than the other at all.

As a daily driver the 997 wins hands down, certainly over the non PAS NSX, but the NSX is marginally more of an event to drive.

And given the relative values the 997 is an absolute bargain. If I had to choose just one to keep as a daily driver it would probably be the Porsche.

[ATM]

Tobermory said:

The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly.

If you like steering feel then you should try a 996 running the factory 17 inch setup.

[Slippydiff]

ATM said:

Tobermory said:

The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly.

If you like steering feel then you should try a 996 running the factory 17 inch setup.

This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way)

[buddys dad]

CG did my 997.2.
Chris did a forensic inspection & found suspension & brake issues.
As most of their work is Porsche they carry parts, so I had it done.
Needless to say the car was transformed. You imagine the line you want to take through a corner & the car just follows it.

Have recently PX'd her for a 991.2.
First thing I did was book into CG as the waiting list is 2 months.

So reassuring to know your suspension components, brakes and set up are as good as when new.
Or maybe better?

[anonymous-user]

Slippydiff said:

This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way)

I'm booked into CG in a couple of weeks. The car has new discs pads and tyres so a good starting point I hope. It feels pretty good already though.

[Chubbyross]

Tobermory said:

Slippydiff said:

This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way)

I'm booked into CG in a couple of weeks. The car has new discs pads and tyres so a good starting point I hope. It feels pretty good already though.

CG will work wonders on your car. They transformed my 997.2 Turbo. It will now be one of the first thing I always do when buying a new Porsche.

[PaulD86]

I really think the 997 was a high point in the life of the 911. A basic 997 is a sublime thing to drive and to me the 991 (in non GT trims) could never match it. If I didn't have my Cayman R, I'd be shopping for a 997. Great to hear how much the OP is enjoying his.

Tobermory said:

I'm seriously considering cancelling my order for the EV6 GT, this might be a keeper.

As I see it, the 997 is peak 911 and EVs are in their (relative) infancy. I'd keep the 997 as I don't think we are too far from EVs making a giant leap forward and ICE cars becoming harder to justify (financially). Though it's all just speculation for now.

[braddo]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and especially the comparisons with the NSX.

For me the Porsches of this era give a driving experience that feels natural or right in a way that virtually no other cars can match. By that I mean stuff like driving position, steering feel, weighting of pedals/steering/gearlever, sound, usability and weight as well as handling dynamics.

As time passes it's interesting to see that 996/997 will be a peak* of the 911 story - as others have mentioned it's a sweet spot of the tactility of the older generations and the ergonomics and performance etc of the modern era.

(* the other peak for me being around 70-73)

[fear.the.raven]

Will be picking up my 991.1 GT3 in a couple of weeks and I'm already certain that one of the first things I should do is pop over to CG and get them to check it over. The car's over 7 years old and had 3 owners, so I've no idea what sort of life it's had - I am sure CG could probably wash away any accumulated problems without a second thought.

Oh and like the OP, I'd never ever thought about a Porsche as an option, but recently I've cycled through all sorts of things I might like to own - a 458, Vanquish, Vantage V12, 570GT..... as soon as I clapped eyes on the GT3 at the dealer I knew I wanted that above all the others.