996 - only buy from a reputable dealer?
Discussion
Hi all,
Any advice would be welcome here (esp from recent experience!)
I’m in the market for a good 996 (nothing fancy, a bog standard c2 would do for me) , and a general theme to all the buyers guides I’ve read and watched is: 1) quality and evidence of well looked after is paramount and 2) hedge your bets and spend a bit more and buy from a reputable dealer.
This means private sellers are likely to be a bit of a mine field. I don’t have a huge amount of mechanical knowledge, when looking at a car I could spot an oil leak, rust on an arch or listen for a rattle at idle, but that’s as much as my mechanical vetting would go. I would look for invoices from recent work, usual ims /rms being done and full service history etc. I’d also want to get a check by an independent inspector that do through checks and look for bore scoring etc.
In your experience do you think this is enough to find a relatively good one or you think on balance reduce your risk and go with a dealer?
Cheers!
Any advice would be welcome here (esp from recent experience!)
I’m in the market for a good 996 (nothing fancy, a bog standard c2 would do for me) , and a general theme to all the buyers guides I’ve read and watched is: 1) quality and evidence of well looked after is paramount and 2) hedge your bets and spend a bit more and buy from a reputable dealer.
This means private sellers are likely to be a bit of a mine field. I don’t have a huge amount of mechanical knowledge, when looking at a car I could spot an oil leak, rust on an arch or listen for a rattle at idle, but that’s as much as my mechanical vetting would go. I would look for invoices from recent work, usual ims /rms being done and full service history etc. I’d also want to get a check by an independent inspector that do through checks and look for bore scoring etc.
In your experience do you think this is enough to find a relatively good one or you think on balance reduce your risk and go with a dealer?
Cheers!
At 20 years old I can’t help but think any 996 is likely to be a risk unless you are happy to pay a premium from a specialist willing to warranty it.
I did none of the above and took a gamble on a car from a dealer with a largely worthless warranty, that needed some mechanical work but had really good bodywork.
So far I’m really happy with it.
I did none of the above and took a gamble on a car from a dealer with a largely worthless warranty, that needed some mechanical work but had really good bodywork.
So far I’m really happy with it.
IMO of buying used Porsches, both for myself & in helping friends, used 996s (& Boxsters) from used car dealers fall in to 2 categories...1. A marque specialist or 2. general used car dealers. If you want peace of mind I think a marque specialist should be the better choice although it all comes down to who it is & how well they prepare their cars prior to sale. Many of the marque specialists now struggle with selling 996s due to the potential level of sales preparation required to bring the cars up to retail standard as well as the normal wear and tear items on a 20+ year old car (even at trade prices). Non marque specialists are less likely to know the complexities of a 996 and their warranties will fall short on a decent sized repair, unlike many marque specialists who stand behind their own cars and either have their own directly appointed technician (such as Friends Green Porsche or 911 Virgin).
The obvious issues about IMS and RMS are the main topics although replacement suspension and air con/normal rads will easily chew a decent wedge of dealer margin.
Ultimately buying a 20 year old 911 (like other 20 yr old cars) means you have to do your due diligence as most dealers won’t agree to repair minor failures under whatever warranty they offer (unless you spot it as part of the sales negotiation), but only say the bigger ones (& those that are not considered “wear and tear”).
If you are intending on buying privately, forums such as PH & 911uk can often yield some good opportunities as a motivated seller will sensibly have had their car serviced before listing & will (if asked) offer the details of their Porsche service specialist so a buyer can ask about the last service and whether they highlighted any possible imminent maintenance items etc. A good enthusiast will have their car inspected annually (regardless of mileage) & the considered opinion is that an average £2k pa maintenance budget is sensible as well as listing in detail when asked exactly what they’ve done over the last few years.
Also consider whether you truly want a Carrera over a Carrera 4 as the 4 is often a cheaper car to buy & to most people you couldn’t differentiate them on the road (& there are often more 4 models available).
The obvious issues about IMS and RMS are the main topics although replacement suspension and air con/normal rads will easily chew a decent wedge of dealer margin.
Ultimately buying a 20 year old 911 (like other 20 yr old cars) means you have to do your due diligence as most dealers won’t agree to repair minor failures under whatever warranty they offer (unless you spot it as part of the sales negotiation), but only say the bigger ones (& those that are not considered “wear and tear”).
If you are intending on buying privately, forums such as PH & 911uk can often yield some good opportunities as a motivated seller will sensibly have had their car serviced before listing & will (if asked) offer the details of their Porsche service specialist so a buyer can ask about the last service and whether they highlighted any possible imminent maintenance items etc. A good enthusiast will have their car inspected annually (regardless of mileage) & the considered opinion is that an average £2k pa maintenance budget is sensible as well as listing in detail when asked exactly what they’ve done over the last few years.
Also consider whether you truly want a Carrera over a Carrera 4 as the 4 is often a cheaper car to buy & to most people you couldn’t differentiate them on the road (& there are often more 4 models available).
I wouldn't only buy from a dealer. Despite what's said above there are many specialists still selling them, some like friends Green Porsche who almost exclusively specialise in 996s. The problem is they all charge a premium and I think given the enthusiastic following these cars have you can easily pick a very very well looked after car up off the owners groups, forums or even the 3.4 thread here for a good price. In fact, it's not uncommon for the cars in these places to be snapped up by the dealers and instantly have £3k slapped on top without having to put an oily rag near them.
It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.
It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.
jonny996 said:
OP do you have a indy that you are planning on using for work, perhaps you already have a relationship with one, if so have you asked if they know of anyone thinking about selling, many may be thinking but can’t be bothered, a buyer on tap might just make their mind up
That’s a good shout. I only live a few miles from portiacraft who have a great rep for the work they do but they are a dealer too. Will see if there any other local Indy workshops close by. A few in Essex I think which are not too far away. [quote=nunpuncher]I wouldn't only buy from a dealer. Despite what's said above there are many specialists still selling them, some like friends Green Porsche who almost exclusively specialise in 996s. The problem is they all charge a premium and I think given the enthusiastic following these cars have you can easily pick a very very well looked after car up off the owners groups, forums or even the 3.4 thread here for a good price. In fact, it's not uncommon for the cars in these places to be snapped up by the dealers and instantly have 3k slapped on top without having to put an oily rag near them.
It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.[/]
Cheers for this. I think to go private sale it does seem like good provenance and a good mechanical check would cover it.
I keep an eye on the friends green website, they seem to be priced a little higher than other (good) dealers but it does look like they make sure their cars are good.
It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.[/]
Cheers for this. I think to go private sale it does seem like good provenance and a good mechanical check would cover it.
I keep an eye on the friends green website, they seem to be priced a little higher than other (good) dealers but it does look like they make sure their cars are good.
I spent ages (2 years) fawning over the FGP website and over time becoming more and more frustrated with the pricing. I remember a while back (18 months?) when they did a video on tiptronic and had a guards red 996 c2 and I expected a high teens/20-21k price and was going to dive in for it. I think it ended up being 25k and it totally threw me. I ended up stepping down my search as a result of this. Yes I am an idiot etc
However - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual
It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier.
I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard.
I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car.
However - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual
It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier.
I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard.
I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car.
conanius said:
I spent ages (2 years) fawning over the FGP website and over time becoming more and more frustrated with the pricing. I remember a while back (18 months?) when they did a video on tiptronic and had a guards red 996 c2 and I expected a high teens/20-21k price and was going to dive in for it. I think it ended up being 25k and it totally threw me. I ended up stepping down my search as a result of this. Yes I am an idiot etc
However - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual
It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier.
I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard.
I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car.
FGP have come a long way and are now even selling a 997 GTS for 58 grandHowever - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual
It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier.
I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard.
I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255521787136
In their early days I did see some discussion about them on here and some of it wasn't favourable. Clearly they have carved themselves a little niche although they seem to sell a lot less earlier 996 cars now which is a shame but could be because cheap good quality examples just don't exist in my view.
I don't know if their prep is that good or they just buy well. Yes I have enjoyed their videos but I see them as more of a marketing tool than particularly informative. I did see a red aero 996 prior to them selling it which was in absolutely pristine condition. I knew the PO and I know what they paid and what they advertised it for. It needed virtually zero prep I'd say as it was in such good condition. I think they did remedy one niggle but I'd suspect there is no YouTube video of their prep for that car but I've not checked.
How long have they been around for now, is it 4 or 5 years? Considering they now seem to have a good reputation I think that's not taken them long in the general scheme of things.
On that point, does anyone know if there is a list of recommended dealers on PH, I feel like this would be lurking in a forum post somewhere.
I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on:
Ams
Portiacraft
Friends green
Rpm
Paul stephens
Cridfords
911 virgin
I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on:
Ams
Portiacraft
Friends green
Rpm
Paul stephens
Cridfords
911 virgin
lemmingjames said:
Have a look on 911uk for feedback on fgp (unless I've got my companies mixed up and it was an off day for said company)
Whilst I haven’t used FGP, I get the impression they’ve come a long way from their early days & their commitment is demonstrated by having their own techie to not only prepare their sales cars, but also service customers cars. FGP have also been a small part of the reason why the 996 values have gone up as they have targeted early on in their business life the 996 range, whereas many larger specialist dealers had decided they were too old to retail given the necessary work to bring them up to retail standards. The fact that FGP will publish a YouTube clip about the preparation of sales cars I think is quite a bold thing as any would-be buyer can see the extent to which they prepare their cars.
I noted another post in the thread and the fact that FGP they can put a mark up on a car that had been listed as a private sale beforehand is a fact of life and also necessary if they are to make a profit and survive long-term (hence being able to support all the customers who they’ve sold cars to previously).
jwbc1984 said:
On that point, does anyone know if there is a list of recommended dealers on PH, I feel like this would be lurking in a forum post somewhere.
I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on:
Ams
Portiacraft
Friends green
Rpm
Paul stephens
Cridfords
911 virgin
It sounds like you've decided to buy from a dealer?I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on:
Ams
Portiacraft
Friends green
Rpm
Paul stephens
Cridfords
911 virgin
OP, a couple of things....there are a few “rebuilt” engined cars for sale that have been to Hartech recently & if you have the budget, they are generally considered the pick of the engine rebuilders although you need to be sure they’ve had a full rebuild. Some sellers (even with rebuilt engined cars) seem to be struggling to find new homes for their cars currently & it might be that a waiting game & some careful negotiation for a car being sold privately delivers you a good Carrera.
As for your garage issue, other than getting a friendly 996 owner to test your driveway approach, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper and/or those that have lowered/adjustable suspension i.e. only look for cars running a normal ride height.
GLWTS
As for your garage issue, other than getting a friendly 996 owner to test your driveway approach, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper and/or those that have lowered/adjustable suspension i.e. only look for cars running a normal ride height.
GLWTS
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