PCNA Centrelock recall
Discussion
RichT001 said:
As much as I love my 911, this whole situation stinks, and I keep thinking should I just reject the car, and get something else? Some are getting their cars fixed, most of us haven’t heard a thing. I’ve saved for a long time to get this car, and it’s just a static ornament, so I’m questioning why I even have it.
JWW’s videos with his GTC4 Lusso are making me think…..
Couldn’t agree more. I get better customer service from John Lewis when spending £1k on a tv, compared to £200k on a car from a brand that’s never shy of telling us how amazing they are. This issue has affected a relatively tiny number of their global production and the mechanical fix is cheap (and will likely be covered by their supply chain and/or product liability insurance). The goodwill gesture to customers (irrespective of whether they bought on finance or outright) should exceed expectations- that’s the only thing that will go some way to remedying the lousy position owners have found themselves in. I had a great road trip planned for this month which I’ve had to can…JWW’s videos with his GTC4 Lusso are making me think…..
Thanks for the info SJMW
I also agree with Rich and you and others, the service from Porsche is sub par both centrally and by my OPC. I would expect at least one phone call a week to update me, even if to say nothing has changed. In our business this is the least we do if something needs fixing.
It took quite some time for the wife to come round to the prospect of spending a large chunk of money on our 911. Needless to say she is probably even more unimpressed than me. She has decided she's going to call Porsche tomorrow and give them both barrels over the situation...
Right now I/we would really have to question whether we got another Porsche after this. All it would take is better customer service/updates and to feel valued after spending so much with them.
I also agree with Rich and you and others, the service from Porsche is sub par both centrally and by my OPC. I would expect at least one phone call a week to update me, even if to say nothing has changed. In our business this is the least we do if something needs fixing.
It took quite some time for the wife to come round to the prospect of spending a large chunk of money on our 911. Needless to say she is probably even more unimpressed than me. She has decided she's going to call Porsche tomorrow and give them both barrels over the situation...
Right now I/we would really have to question whether we got another Porsche after this. All it would take is better customer service/updates and to feel valued after spending so much with them.
andharri said:
I think it is about time we instruct our KC's, this is beyond unacceptable!
Because you've lost your cars for a few weeks and Porsche won't come around every day to whisper 'sweet nothings' in your ears and tuck you in to bed.I cannot work out if you're being sarcastic or are just unbelievably narcissistic.
Either you don’t have a car that’s affected or you don’t give a toss about spending £200k on a product that is not fit for purpose. Whilst I agree that suing Porsche is tantamount to pissing in the wind, the reality of a worldwide premium brand handling its customer base like this is shocking. It’s not a few weeks off the road, it’s potentially several months. What is worse is that I, like most of the others here, have had to chase Porsche UK or my OPC to get any information, and they know bugger all. The various forums I’ve looked at have been more productive. I ran a US$ billion oil & gas services business and if I’d treated my clients like this, they would justifiably have taken their business elsewhere and our reputation would have been in tatters. That’s why I’m pissed off……but at the end of the day it’s a first world problem and it’s only a car. My last Porsche though.
Guyr said:
andharri said:
I think it is about time we instruct our KC's, this is beyond unacceptable!
Because you've lost your cars for a few weeks and Porsche won't come around every day to whisper 'sweet nothings' in your ears and tuck you in to bed.I cannot work out if you're being sarcastic or are just unbelievably narcissistic.
Do you think that the OPC's are so busy at this time of year that they couldn't have kept in touch with customers having purchased cars from them with this problem ??
They are fast enough to remind me of MOT and Service requirements ... or requests to buy my car ... ???
MDH997 said:
My GTS had its first birthday yesterday. Porsche celebrated by charging me for another years tracker service for the entirely useless piece of artwork sat in my garage
+1Mine had its first birthday at the end of Nov and I got the same useless present. Don't forget your £600 road tax and insurance will also be due. Enjoy your birthday!
cars are still being identified as having issues. a friend who has a 4rs enquired about his car when the issue came out and was told it was fine.
subsequently he has been driving it for the past month or so. he updated the app on his phone last week and when checking the app, a recal notice appeared. on speaking with the opc, they checked it again and he was told it is one of the cars affected and he can no longer drive it.
to make matters worse for him, he had agreed the sale of the car last week prior to the notification, as he has a new car due in the next couple of weeks and it was due to be collected later on this week.
the opc have told him they cant give him a car as they have over 60 cars with the issue, so can arrange an loan from enterprise or he can have £1500 a month from porsche until it is resolved.
the opc said they have no confirmed time frame but would expect it to be march/april before it is resolved due to the volume of cars affected.
to say he's not happy is an understatement.
what compensation did 991.1 gt3 owner get when their cars were off the road?
his car was delivered in june 24
subsequently he has been driving it for the past month or so. he updated the app on his phone last week and when checking the app, a recal notice appeared. on speaking with the opc, they checked it again and he was told it is one of the cars affected and he can no longer drive it.
to make matters worse for him, he had agreed the sale of the car last week prior to the notification, as he has a new car due in the next couple of weeks and it was due to be collected later on this week.
the opc have told him they cant give him a car as they have over 60 cars with the issue, so can arrange an loan from enterprise or he can have £1500 a month from porsche until it is resolved.
the opc said they have no confirmed time frame but would expect it to be march/april before it is resolved due to the volume of cars affected.
to say he's not happy is an understatement.
what compensation did 991.1 gt3 owner get when their cars were off the road?
his car was delivered in june 24
Edited by Sidsw on Monday 9th December 18:11
Sidsw said:
cars are still being identified as having issues. a friend who has a 4rs enquired about his car when the issue came out and was told it was fine.
subsequently he has been driving it for the past month or so. he updated the app on his phone last week and when checking the app, a recal notice appeared. on speaking with the opc, they checked it again and he was told it is one of the cars affected and he can no longer drive it.
to make matters worse for him, he had agreed the sale of the car last week prior to the notification, as he has a new car due in the next couple of weeks and it was due to be collected later on this week.
the opc have told him they cant give him a car as they have over 60 cars with the issue, so can arrange an loan from enterprise or he can have £1500 a month from porsche until it is resolved.
the opc said they have no confirmed time frame but would expect it to be march/april before it is resolved due to the volume of cars affected.
to say he's not happy is an understatement.
what compensation did 991.1 gt3 owner get when their cars were off the road?
his car was delivered in june 24
How can one dealer be quoting March/ April, when some have already had their cars fixed?subsequently he has been driving it for the past month or so. he updated the app on his phone last week and when checking the app, a recal notice appeared. on speaking with the opc, they checked it again and he was told it is one of the cars affected and he can no longer drive it.
to make matters worse for him, he had agreed the sale of the car last week prior to the notification, as he has a new car due in the next couple of weeks and it was due to be collected later on this week.
the opc have told him they cant give him a car as they have over 60 cars with the issue, so can arrange an loan from enterprise or he can have £1500 a month from porsche until it is resolved.
the opc said they have no confirmed time frame but would expect it to be march/april before it is resolved due to the volume of cars affected.
to say he's not happy is an understatement.
what compensation did 991.1 gt3 owner get when their cars were off the road?
his car was delivered in june 24
Edited by Sidsw on Monday 9th December 18:11
Very strange that a June 24 car would be affected… parts in that Build should have been well out of the window unless the build was started much earlier and then completion was delayed due to parts shortage or extra treatment such as special wishes.
What are the dates on the bolts?
As for 991.1 GT3 compo package, forget about it lol.. this is nothing like that. No chance.
I personally think £1500 per month is more than decent enough…
I felt they should have offered loaner or cash which would have been the equivalent of the cost of a hire/loaner car.
If you take a loaner 911 from an OPC you get no cash.
If you take sub 911 model you maybe get some cash.
If you take cash option, it’s pro-rated for however long your car is disabled, capped at £2k.
If you have a Turbo or GTS I think you have more potential cause for upset… as these could be seen as everyday use cars… people are not using GT cars daily in these conditions, if they are being honest, look at the amount of handbags on here wrt Cup2 in wet weather, let alone if a leaf fell on it.
What are the dates on the bolts?
As for 991.1 GT3 compo package, forget about it lol.. this is nothing like that. No chance.
I personally think £1500 per month is more than decent enough…
I felt they should have offered loaner or cash which would have been the equivalent of the cost of a hire/loaner car.
If you take a loaner 911 from an OPC you get no cash.
If you take sub 911 model you maybe get some cash.
If you take cash option, it’s pro-rated for however long your car is disabled, capped at £2k.
If you have a Turbo or GTS I think you have more potential cause for upset… as these could be seen as everyday use cars… people are not using GT cars daily in these conditions, if they are being honest, look at the amount of handbags on here wrt Cup2 in wet weather, let alone if a leaf fell on it.
Edited by TDT on Monday 9th December 18:35
I asked ChatGPT for some advice earlier, to see just out of interest how it would respond. Here's the conversation, which may be of use to some. Of course, bear in mind that one's rights under the CRAct 2015 are stronger if the car is less than 6 months old. NB do your own research/take your own legal advice!
"I bought a very expensive car on 31 December 2023. On 4 November 2024 I received a recall notice letter from the manufacturer informing me that the car is unsafe to drive because of a possible defect in the centre lock wheel nuts (meaning this could fail and a wheel could fall off). I've not been given a timescale for a fix. I live in England. What are my rights under English consumer law?"
ChatGPT said:
Under English consumer law, you have several rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and related legislation. Here's how your situation might be addressed:
Key Consumer Rights
Goods Must Be of Satisfactory Quality, Fit for Purpose, and as Described
A car is expected to be safe and free from defects. A defect in the centre lock wheel nuts that makes the car unsafe to drive is a breach of this right.
Right to Repair or Replacement
If the car is defective, the seller (usually the dealership) is required to repair the defect or replace the car at no cost to you. However, in your case, no timescale for the fix has been provided, which complicates matters.
Right to a Refund or Price Reduction
If a repair or replacement is not possible within a reasonable time or without causing significant inconvenience, you are entitled to either a refund (potentially reduced to account for usage) or a price reduction.
Manufacturer's Recall
The manufacturer's recall confirms the defect and its seriousness. This supports your claim under consumer law that the car is not of satisfactory quality.
Next Steps for You
Contact the Seller (Dealership)
Under the Consumer Rights Act, your primary legal relationship is with the seller, not the manufacturer. Notify the dealership of the recall and demand a resolution.
Request Immediate Action
Ask for a clear timeline for repairs. If the timeline is unacceptable or if the defect cannot be resolved, request a replacement car or a refund.
Alternative Transportation
If you cannot use the car, you may be entitled to claim for consequential losses, such as the cost of alternative transportation, during the period your car is unusable.
Keep Records
Keep copies of all correspondence with the manufacturer and dealership, including the recall notice and any communication about repairs.
Seek Legal Advice
If the dealership or manufacturer fails to resolve the issue, you can escalate your claim to:
A solicitor specializing in consumer law.
Alternative dispute resolution (ADR) schemes.
The courts, if necessary.
Compensation for Inconvenience or Loss
You may be able to claim compensation if the defect causes financial loss (e.g., rental car costs) or inconvenience. This could be pursued directly with the dealership or, if they refuse, through legal channels.
Statutory Time Limits
You can reject goods outright and request a full refund within 30 days of purchase. After that, you have up to 6 years to claim for breach of contract, although remedies like repair, replacement, or partial refund become more common.
Recall-Specific Considerations
Since the manufacturer has acknowledged the defect, this strengthens your case. However, because they haven't provided a fix, the dealership (as your point of sale) remains responsible for resolving the issue or compensating you appropriately.
Would you like help drafting a letter to the dealership or guidance on how to escalate the matter?
You said:
I am told that the defect was inherent (i.e. was present in the wheel locking nuts at the time of manufacture). It appears that owners with the same problem are being treated differently with regard to the timescale for a fix; the availability of like for like replacement vehicles (until the repairs are carried out); the level of compensation they are being offered (which appears to be different depending on whether they bought their vehicles outright or on finance and whether the owner is a high profile owner (such as a journalist; YouTuber etc)). I want to make sure that the problem is sorted or, alternatively, that I can put the dealership on notice to fix within a particular timescale, otherwise I can reject the car and claim a refund (less a reasonable deduction for my (limited) use). I also want to make sure that I receive fair compensation taking into account: my direct financial losses (tax; insurance; depreciation/finance cost; shortening of warranty period; cost of alternative transport); indirect losses; the inconvenience; the upset the issue has caused me and my passengers knowing we could have been involved in a serious crash. Please advise on my rights and how best to go about asserting them
ChatGPT said:
You are in a strong position to assert your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and other consumer protection laws. Here’s how you can approach this situation:
Your Rights Under English Consumer Law
Inherent Defect
If the defect was present at the time of manufacture, the car was not of satisfactory quality, as required by law. This gives you the right to:
Request a repair or replacement.
Reject the car and request a refund, subject to a reasonable deduction for usage.
Right to Repair or Replacement
You can demand that the dealership repairs or replaces the car within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. If they fail to do so, you have the right to:
Reject the car and request a refund.
Seek compensation for your financial and non-financial losses.
Unequal Treatment
While unequal treatment by the manufacturer is frustrating, your direct relationship is with the dealership. They must ensure you are treated fairly and reasonably.
Compensation
You can claim for:
Direct financial losses: Tax, insurance, depreciation, finance costs, alternative transport.
Indirect losses: Consequences of the defect, such as loss of use.
Inconvenience and distress: Upset caused to you and your passengers.
Steps to Take
1. Write to the Dealership (Formal Notice)
Draft a formal letter to the dealership outlining:
The defect (refer to the recall notice).
Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The inherent nature of the defect and the safety risk posed.
The specific remedies you are seeking:
Immediate repair within a clear timeframe.
A replacement vehicle (like-for-like) while the car is unusable.
Compensation for your losses and inconvenience.
Alternatively, a refund (less reasonable usage) if the problem is not resolved promptly.
2. Set a Reasonable Timescale
State that you expect:
A repair to be completed within 14-28 days.
A replacement car provided within 7 days.
Compensation for financial losses and inconvenience assessed within 30 days.
3. Document Your Losses
Prepare a record of your:
Financial losses (tax, insurance, transport costs, etc.).
Evidence of depreciation or warranty shortening.
Time and inconvenience suffered.
4. Escalate if Necessary
If the dealership does not resolve the issue:
Contact the manufacturer: They may provide goodwill compensation, even if your legal claim is against the dealership.
Use Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR): Such as The Motor Ombudsman or another recognized body.
Take Legal Action: If necessary, you can pursue a claim through the Small Claims Court for compensation or rejection of the car.
Fair Compensation
When negotiating compensation:
Be assertive but reasonable in your claims.
Reference the serious nature of the defect (potential for a crash).
Include all direct and indirect losses, supported by evidence.
"I bought a very expensive car on 31 December 2023. On 4 November 2024 I received a recall notice letter from the manufacturer informing me that the car is unsafe to drive because of a possible defect in the centre lock wheel nuts (meaning this could fail and a wheel could fall off). I've not been given a timescale for a fix. I live in England. What are my rights under English consumer law?"
ChatGPT said:
Under English consumer law, you have several rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and related legislation. Here's how your situation might be addressed:
Key Consumer Rights
Goods Must Be of Satisfactory Quality, Fit for Purpose, and as Described
A car is expected to be safe and free from defects. A defect in the centre lock wheel nuts that makes the car unsafe to drive is a breach of this right.
Right to Repair or Replacement
If the car is defective, the seller (usually the dealership) is required to repair the defect or replace the car at no cost to you. However, in your case, no timescale for the fix has been provided, which complicates matters.
Right to a Refund or Price Reduction
If a repair or replacement is not possible within a reasonable time or without causing significant inconvenience, you are entitled to either a refund (potentially reduced to account for usage) or a price reduction.
Manufacturer's Recall
The manufacturer's recall confirms the defect and its seriousness. This supports your claim under consumer law that the car is not of satisfactory quality.
Next Steps for You
Contact the Seller (Dealership)
Under the Consumer Rights Act, your primary legal relationship is with the seller, not the manufacturer. Notify the dealership of the recall and demand a resolution.
Request Immediate Action
Ask for a clear timeline for repairs. If the timeline is unacceptable or if the defect cannot be resolved, request a replacement car or a refund.
Alternative Transportation
If you cannot use the car, you may be entitled to claim for consequential losses, such as the cost of alternative transportation, during the period your car is unusable.
Keep Records
Keep copies of all correspondence with the manufacturer and dealership, including the recall notice and any communication about repairs.
Seek Legal Advice
If the dealership or manufacturer fails to resolve the issue, you can escalate your claim to:
A solicitor specializing in consumer law.
Alternative dispute resolution (ADR) schemes.
The courts, if necessary.
Compensation for Inconvenience or Loss
You may be able to claim compensation if the defect causes financial loss (e.g., rental car costs) or inconvenience. This could be pursued directly with the dealership or, if they refuse, through legal channels.
Statutory Time Limits
You can reject goods outright and request a full refund within 30 days of purchase. After that, you have up to 6 years to claim for breach of contract, although remedies like repair, replacement, or partial refund become more common.
Recall-Specific Considerations
Since the manufacturer has acknowledged the defect, this strengthens your case. However, because they haven't provided a fix, the dealership (as your point of sale) remains responsible for resolving the issue or compensating you appropriately.
Would you like help drafting a letter to the dealership or guidance on how to escalate the matter?
You said:
I am told that the defect was inherent (i.e. was present in the wheel locking nuts at the time of manufacture). It appears that owners with the same problem are being treated differently with regard to the timescale for a fix; the availability of like for like replacement vehicles (until the repairs are carried out); the level of compensation they are being offered (which appears to be different depending on whether they bought their vehicles outright or on finance and whether the owner is a high profile owner (such as a journalist; YouTuber etc)). I want to make sure that the problem is sorted or, alternatively, that I can put the dealership on notice to fix within a particular timescale, otherwise I can reject the car and claim a refund (less a reasonable deduction for my (limited) use). I also want to make sure that I receive fair compensation taking into account: my direct financial losses (tax; insurance; depreciation/finance cost; shortening of warranty period; cost of alternative transport); indirect losses; the inconvenience; the upset the issue has caused me and my passengers knowing we could have been involved in a serious crash. Please advise on my rights and how best to go about asserting them
ChatGPT said:
You are in a strong position to assert your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and other consumer protection laws. Here’s how you can approach this situation:
Your Rights Under English Consumer Law
Inherent Defect
If the defect was present at the time of manufacture, the car was not of satisfactory quality, as required by law. This gives you the right to:
Request a repair or replacement.
Reject the car and request a refund, subject to a reasonable deduction for usage.
Right to Repair or Replacement
You can demand that the dealership repairs or replaces the car within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. If they fail to do so, you have the right to:
Reject the car and request a refund.
Seek compensation for your financial and non-financial losses.
Unequal Treatment
While unequal treatment by the manufacturer is frustrating, your direct relationship is with the dealership. They must ensure you are treated fairly and reasonably.
Compensation
You can claim for:
Direct financial losses: Tax, insurance, depreciation, finance costs, alternative transport.
Indirect losses: Consequences of the defect, such as loss of use.
Inconvenience and distress: Upset caused to you and your passengers.
Steps to Take
1. Write to the Dealership (Formal Notice)
Draft a formal letter to the dealership outlining:
The defect (refer to the recall notice).
Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The inherent nature of the defect and the safety risk posed.
The specific remedies you are seeking:
Immediate repair within a clear timeframe.
A replacement vehicle (like-for-like) while the car is unusable.
Compensation for your losses and inconvenience.
Alternatively, a refund (less reasonable usage) if the problem is not resolved promptly.
2. Set a Reasonable Timescale
State that you expect:
A repair to be completed within 14-28 days.
A replacement car provided within 7 days.
Compensation for financial losses and inconvenience assessed within 30 days.
3. Document Your Losses
Prepare a record of your:
Financial losses (tax, insurance, transport costs, etc.).
Evidence of depreciation or warranty shortening.
Time and inconvenience suffered.
4. Escalate if Necessary
If the dealership does not resolve the issue:
Contact the manufacturer: They may provide goodwill compensation, even if your legal claim is against the dealership.
Use Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR): Such as The Motor Ombudsman or another recognized body.
Take Legal Action: If necessary, you can pursue a claim through the Small Claims Court for compensation or rejection of the car.
Fair Compensation
When negotiating compensation:
Be assertive but reasonable in your claims.
Reference the serious nature of the defect (potential for a crash).
Include all direct and indirect losses, supported by evidence.
TDT said:
Very strange that a June 24 car would be affected… parts in that Build should have been well out of the window unless the build was started much earlier and then completion was delayed due to parts shortage or extra treatment such as special wishes.
What are the dates on the bolts?
As for 991.1 GT3 compo package, forget about it lol.. this is nothing like that. No chance.
I personally think £1500 per month is more than decent enough…
I felt they should have offered loaner or cash which would have been the equivalent of the cost of a hire/loaner car.
If you take a loaner 911 from an OPC you get no cash.
If you take sub 911 model you maybe get some cash.
If you take cash option, it’s pro-rated for however long your car is disabled, capped at £2k.
If you have a Turbo or GTS I think you have more potential cause for upset… as these could be seen as everyday use cars… people are not using GT cars daily in these conditions, if they are being honest, look at the amount of handbags on here wrt Cup2 in wet weather, let alone if a leaf fell on it.
its just a standard production car as far as i am aware, not a sonderwunsch special. i dont know the dates on the bolts.What are the dates on the bolts?
As for 991.1 GT3 compo package, forget about it lol.. this is nothing like that. No chance.
I personally think £1500 per month is more than decent enough…
I felt they should have offered loaner or cash which would have been the equivalent of the cost of a hire/loaner car.
If you take a loaner 911 from an OPC you get no cash.
If you take sub 911 model you maybe get some cash.
If you take cash option, it’s pro-rated for however long your car is disabled, capped at £2k.
If you have a Turbo or GTS I think you have more potential cause for upset… as these could be seen as everyday use cars… people are not using GT cars daily in these conditions, if they are being honest, look at the amount of handbags on here wrt Cup2 in wet weather, let alone if a leaf fell on it.
Edited by TDT on Monday 9th December 18:35
£1500 isnt great considering it will cost you £4k to rent a 911 from porsche uk for 8 days!!
https://www.porschedrive.co.uk/vehicle-rental/sear...
PRO5T said:
Wonder if the sales team get to keep the first couple of sets of updated parts in case that can sell one of their cars that is off the road?
A bit like, "I wonder if Porsche have interrupted their production line to reallocate some centre locks to their valuable customers".....it's all about the next sale, not the last.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff