Cayman GTS

[bcr5784]

Twinfan said:

I'm ignoring Schmed's posts,.

Very wise.

[tedblog]

PSB1 said:

Christ the 718 (effectively a Golf R in a prom dress)

Can i ask why ?
As it has a different engine and chassis engine in back etc etc . Am i missing something?

[Twinfan]

No, I thought it was an odd comment to make too...

[Trgasy]

hey gals/guys...
just would like to have ur thoughts...
i have 981 CGTS, x73 manual ptv bucket and so on... 20k miles in 2.5y, i love it... it is a great road car. just extended the PA for 2y.
i also have a a110 coming in september that am looking fwd to.

i will likely have a 2020 slot for a lhd spyder (n 1 on the list)... but i will have to decide quickly spec etc... once slot is confirmed. so would you move to the 718 spyder?
i do most of the time roads trips in EU plus 2/3 track days per year

[bcr5784]

Trgasy said:

hey gals/guys...
just would like to have ur thoughts...
i have 981 CGTS, x73 manual ptv bucket and so on... 20k miles in 2.5y, i love it... it is a great road car. just extended the PA for 2y.
i also have a a110 coming in september that am looking fwd to.

i will likely have a 2020 slot for a lhd spyder (n 1 on the list)... but i will have to decide quickly spec etc... once slot is confirmed. so would you move to the 718 spyder?
i do most of the time roads trips in EU plus 2/3 track days per year

Ignoring the LHD bit - I can't see a Spyder as an ideal EU touring car .

As a car to do long distances in, you will find the A110 noticeably quieter and more comfortable than the the GTS Or Spyder (I've had a 981S). If you don't need too much luggage space the Alpine is terrific (and you can pack a lot behind the seats on an A110 if you or your OH aren't tall). The A110 imo is not a great track car - though I would add that I've only been on track with it for an hour. But for 2 or 3 track days a year it's probably fine.

So, I'd wait until you have formed a view after you have the A110 (if you have that luxury) and have your Spyder as weekend, nice day fun car - and possibly your track car. A110 touring car. Can't see you would want both the GTS and Spyder really.

But without understanding why you are going for a LHD Spyder it's a bit puzzling.

[Twinfan]

If you like or fancy a convertible, and have the money, I think I'd make the switch given the use you're talking about

[dreamcar]

PSB1 said:

Christ the 718 (effectively a Golf R in a prom dress) must really suck balls to cause you to troll 981 owners.

No - the Golf R has a more civilised and pleasant engine!

[Trgasy]

bcr5784 said:

Trgasy said:

hey gals/guys...
just would like to have ur thoughts...
i have 981 CGTS, x73 manual ptv bucket and so on... 20k miles in 2.5y, i love it... it is a great road car. just extended the PA for 2y.
i also have a a110 coming in september that am looking fwd to.

i will likely have a 2020 slot for a lhd spyder (n 1 on the list)... but i will have to decide quickly spec etc... once slot is confirmed. so would you move to the 718 spyder?
i do most of the time roads trips in EU plus 2/3 track days per year

Ignoring the LHD bit - I can't see a Spyder as an ideal EU touring car .

As a car to do long distances in, you will find the A110 noticeably quieter and more comfortable than the the GTS Or Spyder (I've had a 981S). If you don't need too much luggage space the Alpine is terrific (and you can pack a lot behind the seats on an A110 if you or your OH aren't tall). The A110 imo is not a great track car - though I would add that I've only been on track with it for an hour. But for 2 or 3 track days a year it's probably fine.

So, I'd wait until you have formed a view after you have the A110 (if you have that luxury) and have your Spyder as weekend, nice day fun car - and possibly your track car. A110 touring car. Can't see you would want both the GTS and Spyder really.

But without understanding why you are going for a LHD Spyder it's a bit puzzling.

thanks for this... lhd because i could not find any rhd. none of the uk opc wanted to sell me one.
i can't keep gts, a110 and spyder. i am already lucky enough to be able to keep 2 of these.
Allocation will be by October, and i should receive my a110 by the end of september so i won't have much time to assess the a110 properly.

the a110 is a terrific road car i agree, i do not need luggage space as i drive alone.
although the a110 is very capable on track, i agree that it is not his favourite area. a gts or spyder would be better at this exercise.
i am going to try to find out where i can test drive the new spyder and i have a month to think about it.
my Cgts is great, i don't want to miss it!

[TDT]

718 Spyder will easily be the best option here.
Only thing people might be concerns about is the ride.… but GT suspension is much more sophisticated than X73, and firmness can be sorted out by either softening ARBs in the first instance or adding a DSC module which will allow great range of use of the PASM damping range and more urgent response, smoothing out high frequency stuff... might not even be necessary as reviews have said that the new GT4/Spyder seem to be softer riding/ less raw than 981 GT4.
718 Spyder will have more luggage space with both front and rear compartments. And you have the option of dropping the roof.
It will be easily as capable on track as either the the A110 or the 981 CGTS.

A110 looks a lovely thing as a pure toy though, I reckon it should really be priced in the early £40k’s and £45k fully loaded. Rather than into the £50k’s. Wish there was a manual too.

[jbaddeley]

Bumped into an Alpine owner in Durness on our Scottish Tour last week. He also owned a Clio Trophy of which there was one in convoy with me. Reckoned it was more fun than The Alpine. Go figure. Also I drove the GTs in PASm normal and it was spot on around the Highland roads. Bit too firm in sport.

[Twinfan]

IMHO, a separate PASM DSC controller isn't needed on a 9x1 or later car. The 9x7 cars definitely had restricted shock range so a DSC unit really makes a difference, but this was addressed on the later series cars. I don't know for sure, but it certainly seems like the restricted range of damping doesn't apply any more.

Unless you need a specific setup for track work, I wouldn't bother with one on a 981, 982 or 991 series car. I considered one but decided it wasn't worth it for road-only use.

[bcr5784]

TDT said:

A110 looks a lovely thing as a pure toy though, I reckon it should really be priced in the early £40k’s and £45k fully loaded. Rather than into the £50k’s. Wish there was a manual too.

Why a toy - in most respects its less of a toy than 981 or 718 equivalents? Yes, more luggage space would be nice - but I've been on a 3 week holiday with it 2 up, and had space to spare, so it's perfectly adequate. In other respects it's a more comfortable everyday drive than a 981 or 718. And much more economical to run, cheaper to service, much lower fuei consumption and lower depreciation.

Why should it be cheaper to buy than a 718? Actually it is consideraby cheaper spec for spec? It is significantly better equipped as standard. It's also much more expensive to make than a 718 - all aluminium construction with double wishbones all round. The only reason people think it should be cheaper than a Porsche is the badge. (in the UK - in France the Alpine badge has a lot more kudos)

A manual would give it more kudos - but few people would spec it with a manual box - any more than they do Porsches.

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

IMHO, a separate PASM DSC controller isn't needed on a 9x1 or later car. The 9x7 cars definitely had restricted shock range so a DSC unit really makes a difference, but this was addressed on the later series cars. I don't know for sure, but it certainly seems like the restricted range of damping doesn't apply any more.

Unless you need a specific setup for track work, I wouldn't bother with one on a 981, 982 or 991 series car. I considered one but decided it wasn't worth it for road-only use.

Try one, then post again, 9x1 do benefit from DSC. Plenty of margin left on the table vs OEM and the DSC unit is much faster responding to the point of being active.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 15:57

[TDT]

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

A110 looks a lovely thing as a pure toy though, I reckon it should really be priced in the early £40k’s and £45k fully loaded. Rather than into the £50k’s. Wish there was a manual too.

Why a toy - in most respects its less of a toy than 981 or 718 equivalents? Yes, more luggage space would be nice - but I've been on a 3 week holiday with it 2 up, and had space to spare, so it's perfectly adequate. In other respects it's a more comfortable everyday drive than a 981 or 718. And much more economical to run, cheaper to service, much lower fuei consumption and lower depreciation.

Why should it be cheaper to buy than a 718? Actually it is consideraby cheaper spec for spec? It is significantly better equipped as standard. It's also much more expensive to make than a 718 - all aluminium construction with double wishbones all round. The only reason people think it should be cheaper than a Porsche is the badge. (in the UK - in France the Alpine badge has a lot more kudos)

A manual would give it more kudos - but few people would spec it with a manual box - any more than they do Porsches.

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

[Twinfan]

TDT said:

Try one, then post again.

What have you tried it in? And did you custom map it?

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

TDT said:

Try one, then post again.

What have you tried it in? And did you custom map it?

Back to back in a GT4 at Spa in April, also in a custom mapped 718 S from 9e at Zandvoort last week.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 16:05

[Twinfan]

Did the GT4 have a custom map?

Any idea who did the mapping?

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

Did the GT4 have a custom map?

Any idea who did the mapping?

Had a level of custom map done by Ninemiester, along with geo and rear toe links to balance out the camber on the front.

What’s your point? Have you tried one?

[Twinfan]

My point is that you probably need a custom map to get the best out of a DSC unit done by someone who knows what they're doing. I don't know who the specialist mappers are in the UK as it's such a specialised unit. At £1200 for the unit with a base map then mapping on top it's £££££.

As I said earlier, it's probably worth it to a track user. I've not tried one, but I'm sceptical about the benefits for road-only use...

[bcr5784]

TDT said:

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

i can only assume you haven't driven one - the Alpine is noticeably MORE refined and quieter than a 981 or 718. It rides better and the standard seats are more comfortable on long journeys. It's further from an Elise than the Cayman is in most respects as a grand tourer - I have owned all 3. It is the refinement on long journeys (especially motorways) which surprises most new Alpine owners - you can actually listen to music at high speed - something I wouldn't do in a Cayman on a British motorway.

Agreed the Cayman is exceptional in terms of luggage space - but do 2 of you actually need more luggage space than an Escort? You can get the equivalent of 4 aircraft carry on bags in the Alpine boots and all but the exceptionally tall will get a lot more inside

People who haven't driven the Alpine seem to assume because it's so light it must be raw - nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm well aware that some set great store by badges, and will pay a premuim for them, some of us won't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 16:30