12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing
Discussion
RSVP911 said:
GT4P said:
It's the whole market not gt4 specific! Do yo you want to take a £100k bath on a gt3rs or a £10k bath on a gt4?
Agree with the sentiment - but that would make 991.1 RS's £k100 - only £k 20 more than a GT4 in this scenario. At some point both will stabilise somewhere near list as the 991.1 GT3 has. 
Geneve said:
It was clearly underpriced at new, as is the GT3, so these modest premiums are inevitable.
Back in 2003 a 996 gt3 was £72.5k new a new 996 c4s was a similar price or not far behind, Porsche GT products have always been underpriced and represent good value even the latest at £110 k vs 991.2 Gts at similar money I know which I would rather have!The entire point about the Gt3 is the PDK allows the GT market to be extended to the masses.
The Gt4 was signed off because in road guise it was manual only. This restricted the car to a more enthusiast market rather than the Gt3 which is now a bona fide dual purpose car for porsche owners that do not require 4 seats. Fact is, it is now more capable, more compliant, faster and now self shifting, so it is no surprise demand far exceeded demand given it's relative price compared if you used the R8 and lambo/ferrari to book end the sports car range.
The Gt4 was a reward to enthusiasts that waited for it and although they did think it would be popular, they purposely restricted demand by imposing a manual shifter (no matter how slick it is). It was indeed a surprise when it proved such a hit. In fact this paved the way for the GT3 to be offered in both manual and PDK. 911R was a guaranteed success with such a limited production.
with the Gt3 now in manual/pdk and serving both enthusiasts and mass market, is there a direction to push the Gt4 and take a swing? sure the 718 could (1) replicate the formula and keep it safe, while extending the same ethos (AP and other senior porsche figures have alluded) or (2) since 718 has already moved away from NA into F4T, it would make more sense to push a GT product that way. As I said, 2 different markets. In a way, it would be like tapping into a richer, younger Honda civic type R crowd instead of the usual Gt3 punter.
If it failed, so be it. the Gt4 doesn't make money like the Gt3 anyway.............. They cost a little less to make but the upside revenue is much more compromised. I think most people like (1) to continue to tap into the Gt4 market and porsche would play it safe while building another generation of porsche lovers. But (2) could happen. I think less likely now than I thought last year, but could happen
But the way, all this talk about 2008 over again... what on earth will be the catalyst? Market for cars is soft like real estate but will it collapse? Short of North Korean nukes, I can't see it and even that guarantees the annihilation of the aggressor, so I really don't see it. Ease up, when u see a good car and have the means, you should do it....
now who wants to buy my Gt4 and 7.2 RS?
The Gt4 was signed off because in road guise it was manual only. This restricted the car to a more enthusiast market rather than the Gt3 which is now a bona fide dual purpose car for porsche owners that do not require 4 seats. Fact is, it is now more capable, more compliant, faster and now self shifting, so it is no surprise demand far exceeded demand given it's relative price compared if you used the R8 and lambo/ferrari to book end the sports car range.
The Gt4 was a reward to enthusiasts that waited for it and although they did think it would be popular, they purposely restricted demand by imposing a manual shifter (no matter how slick it is). It was indeed a surprise when it proved such a hit. In fact this paved the way for the GT3 to be offered in both manual and PDK. 911R was a guaranteed success with such a limited production.
with the Gt3 now in manual/pdk and serving both enthusiasts and mass market, is there a direction to push the Gt4 and take a swing? sure the 718 could (1) replicate the formula and keep it safe, while extending the same ethos (AP and other senior porsche figures have alluded) or (2) since 718 has already moved away from NA into F4T, it would make more sense to push a GT product that way. As I said, 2 different markets. In a way, it would be like tapping into a richer, younger Honda civic type R crowd instead of the usual Gt3 punter.
If it failed, so be it. the Gt4 doesn't make money like the Gt3 anyway.............. They cost a little less to make but the upside revenue is much more compromised. I think most people like (1) to continue to tap into the Gt4 market and porsche would play it safe while building another generation of porsche lovers. But (2) could happen. I think less likely now than I thought last year, but could happen
But the way, all this talk about 2008 over again... what on earth will be the catalyst? Market for cars is soft like real estate but will it collapse? Short of North Korean nukes, I can't see it and even that guarantees the annihilation of the aggressor, so I really don't see it. Ease up, when u see a good car and have the means, you should do it....
now who wants to buy my Gt4 and 7.2 RS?
GT3 dropped like any other car, I sold mine for £38k
The country does not have to goto s
t for prices to drop again, people have put savings into cars for a bit of fun and a lot are invested as they have been going up.
I would not own 4 cars if interest rates or investments offered a good risk free return.
The GT4 looks cheap at today's daft prices when other cars esp the 997GTS and 997 GT3 prices.
I would rather cars dropped and I would go back to waiting and buying 3 year old examples for 50% of the value, that's how I have got to where I am now, not selling at overs !
The rich people and there are many will always buy new cars which drop in price, so I can buy 2nd hand ones, GT3 is a poor seller as was the R and older Spyder.
This area where we are now is short lived imo, and it does not need a crash to do it, once people can make more money in other area the investors will drop cars like a stone, leaving the car market like it was before.
I would rather 1/4 million making me >10% than own 4 cars, but it not easy to make a real 10% in low risk investments although the last 12 months has been a boom until brexit.
But brexit will be good for the UK in the end.
What comes around comes around and the Bank of England have no idea what to do as the world has never been like this before, so you can throw so called experts out the window, they have no clue imo.
My cars will be gone if I can make money else where to make my lifestyle better.
ATM the GT4 cannot drop that much as every other car is propping it up, so for the GT4 to drop another £10k every thing else has to drop. The CGTS look well expensive.
And it seems most choose a GT4 over a older GT3.
I want interest rates to rise , and cars drop, the good old days, and I can buy a 997.2 RS for £85k. imo the markets small for those cars as every one wants automatics esp the younger crowd and the people who invested have already sold up. So imo it will happen and a lot of people will be taking a big bath, people are down on other cars already.
The country does not have to goto s
t for prices to drop again, people have put savings into cars for a bit of fun and a lot are invested as they have been going up.I would not own 4 cars if interest rates or investments offered a good risk free return.
The GT4 looks cheap at today's daft prices when other cars esp the 997GTS and 997 GT3 prices.
I would rather cars dropped and I would go back to waiting and buying 3 year old examples for 50% of the value, that's how I have got to where I am now, not selling at overs !
The rich people and there are many will always buy new cars which drop in price, so I can buy 2nd hand ones, GT3 is a poor seller as was the R and older Spyder.
This area where we are now is short lived imo, and it does not need a crash to do it, once people can make more money in other area the investors will drop cars like a stone, leaving the car market like it was before.
I would rather 1/4 million making me >10% than own 4 cars, but it not easy to make a real 10% in low risk investments although the last 12 months has been a boom until brexit.
But brexit will be good for the UK in the end.
What comes around comes around and the Bank of England have no idea what to do as the world has never been like this before, so you can throw so called experts out the window, they have no clue imo.
My cars will be gone if I can make money else where to make my lifestyle better.
ATM the GT4 cannot drop that much as every other car is propping it up, so for the GT4 to drop another £10k every thing else has to drop. The CGTS look well expensive.
And it seems most choose a GT4 over a older GT3.
I want interest rates to rise , and cars drop, the good old days, and I can buy a 997.2 RS for £85k. imo the markets small for those cars as every one wants automatics esp the younger crowd and the people who invested have already sold up. So imo it will happen and a lot of people will be taking a big bath, people are down on other cars already.
decrassius said:
Unless you have studied, and continue actively to study economics (?), your opinion is not valuable. And that is not an insult - I apply that to myself equally (even though I have a degree in economics and masters in econometrics). I wouldn't try to comment on something very complicated without having the necessary knowledge. Like, do you have an opinion on the algorithms used to land a SpaceX rocket? This stuff they call science is complicated.
It seems human nature to develop opinions without having the necessary knowledge to have one. Brexit was a good example...
Someone who does know what he is talking about, and who famously predicted the 2008 crash (generally being a 'bear' ie his views tend to the negative) is Stephen King. He says:
"Forget deflation, debt and deleveraging. The developed world’s single biggest economic problem is an absence of decent productivity growth."
Forget debt.
Your last two words of above ''Forget debt'' is precisely the main reason the western world economy is in the state it is in now.In terms of constantly having to exponentially having to increase productivity to service an ever expanding debt will end in tears.This balance of matching global productivity to demand worked well until circa 1970 at which point there was virtually no consumer debt and printing money or quantitive easing was unheard of.It seems human nature to develop opinions without having the necessary knowledge to have one. Brexit was a good example...
Someone who does know what he is talking about, and who famously predicted the 2008 crash (generally being a 'bear' ie his views tend to the negative) is Stephen King. He says:
"Forget deflation, debt and deleveraging. The developed world’s single biggest economic problem is an absence of decent productivity growth."
Forget debt.
Due to increasing technological advancements resulting in less need for the traditional middle/high earning engineers which kept the balance post war to 1970 the averaging lower earners is being gradually replaced with an ever increasing dependence on short term consumer debt has now reached its limit.
I have just finished reading Paul Mason's 'Post capitalism' book and have been invited to attend several economic seminars and it all paints a very grim picture.It is all caused by so called idiots with degrees in economics but very little financial acumen advising governments on how to run an economy when the simple mantra KISS principle and maintaining a global balance in supply/demand would have averted this in the first place.
Discounting unsustainable debt as irrelevant shows total ignorance when you bear in mind all debt needs to be repaid at some point and the reason the NHS in this country is failing as most UK public tax receipts goes to pay the interest on a £1.7Tr and rising government debt and a £350B UK unsecured household debt plus a £1.3Tr mortgage mountain.Basically the whole country is totally skint....However sometimes 'ignorance is bliss';)
Bedlamater said:
I'm buying a GT4 this week from an OPC for two reasons, one I love the car, two I want to start building a relationship with an OPC to give me access to future models. I'm looking at this as an investment in my potsche journey which I will enjoy for day one...
Good news . Decided to skip the Spyder and go for a GT4 . Both great cars . Which one have you gone for ...
Fokker said:
Koln-RS said:
Phew! Daily Mail 
No worries there then - we can get back to buying and enjoying cars
Made me smile too! No worries there then - we can get back to buying and enjoying cars
A high number of General Retailers’ warnings in particular is an ominous
sign that reflects weaker consumers confidence and a return to squeezed disposable incomes. Economic and political unknowns are also starting to hit business confidence and decision making. Meanwhile, central banks are signalling a move to a tighter monetary environment — albeit a slow one.
Edited by daro911 on Monday 24th July 07:51
Edited by daro911 on Monday 24th July 08:03
Edited by daro911 on Tuesday 25th July 13:58
GT4P said:
Me too, White is also faster and I here the yellow ones are slower;)
Actually you'r wrong about that..Yellow actually makes Porsches go faster and why Porsche chose a Racing yellow 991.2GT3 to do the 7'12'' Nurburgring lap..That was a carefully chosen decision based on sound extensive scientific analysis.Taffy66 said:
Actually you'r wrong about that..Yellow actually makes Porsches go faster and why Porsche chose a Racing yellow 991.2GT3 to do the 7'12'' Nurburgring lap..That was a carefully chosen decision based on sound extensive scientific analysis.
i think you'll find yellow ones are slower due to being heavier. Have you seen how many flies they attract in the summer?!The stupid little things think it's some giant daisy!
Has the green one in Newcastle been discussed? I think it looks great: http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...
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