12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

JayK12 said:

Thought you only spoke facts mate? Saying you can remap the old one to get the same power output is complete ste and you know that.

a few bolt on gets you 435BHP with zero engine work, a remap gets you 410bhp with a cobb access port.

most of the power comes from not having 4 600 cell cats in the race car not the 82mmTB.

So keep the standard TB and intakes etc and just change the exhaust and remap yep you get 425bhp with NO ENGINE MODS what so ever.
So not ste at all is it ?

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 4th January 10:31

Facts are facts, you cant get to 425hp with a remap. So yes you are talking ste mate saying its "just a remap". And you've start babbling on about other bits no which makes for original statement even more ste.

Also 30hp from a remap is also laughable, max you'll get from a remap is circa 20hp, realistically.

[TDT]

Porsche911R said:

TDT said:

The race teams on RL have confirmed - it is the previous lump - upgraded with some x51 parts.... 'Integrated Dry sump'..which is their baffled wet sump as used in all the cooking models.

Running x51 intake cams - so optimised for breathing higher up the rev range, and they have remap so that peak power is delivered right near the top...pulling all the way.... typical PowerKit job.

the new car revs to 7800 and makes peak bhp at 7500 only 100rpm more than the last car.

most of the power will come from the 100 cel cats used and a remap, and has nothing to do with the TB which just helps midrange dead spot , the 82MM TB does not add to the max bhp the 78mm units flows enough at peak revs.

the engine pretty much the same unit with a remap and no big cel cats.

bit disappointing imo as it's not matching the 991.1 GTS x51 unit which is 430HP and has all the 600 cell road cats.

As I stated a remap on a 981 GT4 and change the manifolds you get 425BHP any way with an all OEM engine.

people seem to be hung up on the 82MM TB and intake like it's some magic wow part.

A tricked out x51 3.8 with race cats should be circa 450BHP.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 4th January 10:56

Yep agree , I know aftermarket can get more out... as a factory facelift - its nice.
As you say to unlock the 981 GT4 - you just need Manifolds and are remap.. Dundon have also come up with new Intake runners - (not the IPD Plenum). Theses seem to unlock a whole load more, and makes the 82mm TB redundant.

As every its not just the amount of performance.. I don't think that was ever really a huge issue... a lot of people had issue with how that performance was delivered. The Bore and stroke are ever slightly different... 981 v 718 - this could be a difference in measuring or purposeful to give a different type of delivery - and gearing will be key.

[Fokker]

Porsche911R said:

the new car revs to 7800 and makes peak bhp at 7500 only 100rpm more than the last car.

most of the power will come from the 100 cel cats used and a remap, and has nothing to do with the TB which just helps midrange dead spot , the 82MM TB does not add to the max bhp the 78mm units flows enough at peak revs.

the engine pretty much the same unit with a remap and no big cel cats.

bit disappointing imo as it's not matching the 991.1 GTS x51 unit which is 430HP and has all the 600 cell road cats.

As I stated a remap on a 981 GT4 and change the manifolds you get 425BHP any way with an all OEM engine.

people seem to be hung up on the 82MM TB and intake like it's some magic wow part.

A tricked out x51 3.8 with race cats should be circa 450BHP.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 4th January 10:56

Yes you can have all that in a 981 GT4 but with no warranty and you'll never sell it back through the dealer network again.
The Cobb port or indeed any other remap leaves traces on the ECU, you can't hide them.

All well and good if you want to keep the car and not sell it back to your dealer plus you'll have to be upfront with with the new private buyer if you sell who will be thinking, 'this car has been driven hard' and he'll never get a Porsche warranty so you'll have to sell it for a lot less. Easier to just have the new one imo if you want a faster car.

[TDT]

IMI A said:

TDT said:

IMI A said:

Porsche911R said:

IMI A said:

The new GT4 has a motorsport derived engine revving out to 8.5-9k rpm. The old GT4 has a cooking Carrera S engine that runs out of top end puff at 5000 rpm. Very different

lol quote of the day so far, painful to read.

Why painful? Does anyone actually know for sure what lump the new GT4 is getting? Do you know 100%?

The race teams on RL have confirmed - it is the previous lump - upgraded with some x51 parts.... 'Integrated Dry sump'..which is their baffled wet sump as used in all the cooking models.

Running x51 intake cams - so optimised for breathing higher up the rev range, and they have remap so that peak power is delivered right near the top...pulling all the way.... typical PowerKit job.

I"m sure I watched a vid on old GT4 where Andreas Preuniger said the X51 parts don't fit or am I imagining this?!

Porsche still keeping the most sporty lump it makes out of the most sporty chassis so it seems. I suppose for a road car that visits the track only occasionally the cooking 3.8 lump better in most situations but still a tad disappointed it didnt get motorsport derived version.

It was the X51 Plenum which included longer runners that didn't fit directly apparently..it made the engine too tall to sit in the bay so would require changing of the top cover etc etc....although tuners in the US managed to fit the Powerkit without too much issue.

The GT4 engine is motorsport derived now..lol - they announced it in the race car first. This trope can finally die.

[Porsche911R]

Fokker said:

Yes you can have all that in a 981 GT4 but with no warranty and you'll never sell it back through the dealer network again.
The Cobb port or indeed any other remap leaves traces on the ECU, you can't hide them.

All well and good if you want to keep the car and not sell it back to your dealer plus you'll have to be upfront with with the new private buyer if you sell who will be thinking, 'this car has been driven hard' and he'll never get a Porsche warranty so you'll have to sell it for a lot less. Easier to just have the new one imo if you want a faster car.

you can just buy a new ECU if you wish it's not that expensive and swap it back come resale.

[Porsche911R]

JayK12 said:

Facts are facts, you cant get to 425hp with a remap. So yes you are talking ste mate saying its "just a remap". And you've start babbling on about other bits no which makes for original statement even more ste.

Also 30hp from a remap is also laughable, max you'll get from a remap is circa 20hp, realistically.

425 with NO engine mods is very possible, it is what it is. not sure if that's laughable or not, just a fact.

a 3.8 x51 makes 450BHp after market.

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

JayK12 said:

Facts are facts, you cant get to 425hp with a remap. So yes you are talking ste mate saying its "just a remap". And you've start babbling on about other bits no which makes for original statement even more ste.

Also 30hp from a remap is also laughable, max you'll get from a remap is circa 20hp, realistically.

425 with NO engine mods is very possible, it what it is. not sure if that's laughable or not, just a fact.

a 3.8 x51 makes 450BHp after market.

Yes 425hp is, no internal engine changes possible, I never said it wasn't. You said it was with just a remap which i said was ste and I'm right. Your statement of 410hp from Cobb is whats laughable bud, more like 400.

If the new GT4 only has 410hp then filters, manifold and remap in the 981 will see it with more, and sounding better, we can both agree on that.

Thing is do you want to keep your warranty. Its not all end for the 981 GT4 / Spyder, from an engine perspective they seam to be very similar. .

Edited by JayK12 on Friday 4th January 11:25

Edited by JayK12 on Friday 4th January 11:28

[Fokker]

Porsche911R said:

you can just buy a new ECU if you wish it's not that expensive and swap it back come resale.

Yes one of the options is to have a package with additional ECU but the OPC will still know apparently.
I spoke to he Cobb people and they said its not full proof and you are still taking a risk.

Not sure of the inns and outs but its still a gamble which is why I haven done it.

[Porsche911R]

JayK12 said:

Yes 425hp is No internal engine changes is possible, I never said it wasn't. You said it was with just a remap which i said was ste and I'm right. Your statement of 30hp from Cobb is laughable bud.

here are 2 mappers for the GT4 with big names.

Stock GT4 Power: 385hp, 309lb-ft

EVR425 Power, 93oct: 424hp, 340lb-ft

FVD Software Power Gains: Max. Power 412 HP @ 7500rpm

I guess you can sue these claims if you wish, lets not forget you can add even another 10hp if you come from the lower starting point on a 981 SPyder !

[TDT]

Porsche911R said:

JayK12 said:

Yes 425hp is No internal engine changes is possible, I never said it wasn't. You said it was with just a remap which i said was ste and I'm right. Your statement of 30hp from Cobb is laughable bud.

here are 2 mappers for the GT4 with big names.

Stock GT4 Power: 385hp, 309lb-ft

EVR425 Power, 93oct: 424hp, 340lb-ft

FVD Software Power Gains: Max. Power 412 HP @ 7500rpm

I guess you can sue these claims if you wish, lets not forget you can add even another 10hp if you come from the lower starting point on a 981 SPyder !

No internal changes - but you do need additional hardware. This is semantics guys.

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

JayK12 said:

Yes 425hp is No internal engine changes is possible, I never said it wasn't. You said it was with just a remap which i said was ste and I'm right. Your statement of 30hp from Cobb is laughable bud.

here are 2 mappers for the GT4 with big names.

Stock GT4 Power: 385hp, 309lb-ft

EVR425 Power, 93oct: 424hp, 340lb-ft

FVD Software Power Gains: Max. Power 412 HP @ 7500rpm

I guess you can sue these claims if you wish, lets not forget you can add even another 10hp if you come from the lower starting point on a 981 SPyder !

If your going to quote tuner at least do it correctly.

EVR425 do claim with 93 Oct, but that's NOT just a remap, its the IPD Plenum and 82mm throttle body along with a remap,

You even quoted in another thread the 82mm TB doesn't give any power gains and isn't needed as the 74mm flows enough, well the tuner you've quoted (EVR425) seems to think your wrong and the Plenum and 74mm TB is restrictive on the 981 GT4.

So i guess you know more than them though right?

[TDT]

JayK12 said:

If your going to quote tuner at least do it correctly.

EVR425 do claim with 93 Oct, but that's NOT just a remap, its the IPD Plenum and 82mm throttle body along with a remap,

You even quoted in another thread the 82mm TB doesn't give any power gains and isn't needed as the 74mm flows enough, well the tuner you've quoted (EVR425) seems to think your wrong and the Plenum and 74mm TB is restrictive on the 981 GT4.

So i guess you know more than them though right?

The throttle body/plenum point is a funny one because it depend on what you do as to whether or not the TB makes a difference.

If you only do a mild tune on the intake side - then yes its helpful - but then as soon as you go on the exhaust side - headers on down - then the standard TB isn't the restricting factor, up to about 430hp iirc - if you want to go above that then yes you need the larger TB again.

Most kits include it now - but based on the actual numbers - it really depends on effort/spend vs targeted gain.

[JayK12]

TDT said:

JayK12 said:

If your going to quote tuner at least do it correctly.

EVR425 do claim with 93 Oct, but that's NOT just a remap, its the IPD Plenum and 82mm throttle body along with a remap,

You even quoted in another thread the 82mm TB doesn't give any power gains and isn't needed as the 74mm flows enough, well the tuner you've quoted (EVR425) seems to think your wrong and the Plenum and 74mm TB is restrictive on the 981 GT4.

So i guess you know more than them though right?

The throttle body/plenum point is a funny one because it depend on what you do as to whether or not the TB makes a difference.

If you only do a mild tune on the intake side - then yes its helpful - but then as soon as you go on the exhaust side - headers on down - then the standard TB isn't the restricting factor, up to about 430hp iirc - if you want to go above that then yes you need the larger TB again.

Most kits include it now - but based on the actual numbers - it really depends on effort/spend vs targeted gain.

EVR425 whom David quoted reckon 424hp with that and a map, the other tuner quotes 412hp with just a map, so thats a big quoted gain of 12hp from the Plenum and TB.

Personally there are not many people with real world before and after figures, all there are tuners claims which I never believe (All the cars I've tuned, mapped, etc have never seen these tuners headline figures) The tuned GT4 SportAuto tested with Exhaust, Manifold, 200Cell Cats, Remap only made 420hp, which I think is realistic. If you want more you have to increase Airflow so Plenum and TB then all the basic bolt on's are done.

Do you think you'll ever mod yours? Oh i might be going to the April trip now, will text you.

Edited by JayK12 on Friday 4th January 12:27

[boxsey]

Posting for posterity, 4/1/19:

23 cars on OPC locator today. Average price £80,450. Lowest price £73,950. Highest price £89,500.

[JayK12]

boxsey said:

Posting for posterity, 4/1/19:

23 cars on OPC locator today. Average price £80,450. Lowest price £73,950. Highest price £89,500.

They have come down a tiny bit mate, but not much. Holding really well the GT4 and Spyder imo.

[IMI A]

TDT said:

IMI A said:

TDT said:

IMI A said:

Porsche911R said:

IMI A said:

The new GT4 has a motorsport derived engine revving out to 8.5-9k rpm. The old GT4 has a cooking Carrera S engine that runs out of top end puff at 5000 rpm. Very different

lol quote of the day so far, painful to read.

Why painful? Does anyone actually know for sure what lump the new GT4 is getting? Do you know 100%?

The race teams on RL have confirmed - it is the previous lump - upgraded with some x51 parts.... 'Integrated Dry sump'..which is their baffled wet sump as used in all the cooking models.

Running x51 intake cams - so optimised for breathing higher up the rev range, and they have remap so that peak power is delivered right near the top...pulling all the way.... typical PowerKit job.

I"m sure I watched a vid on old GT4 where Andreas Preuniger said the X51 parts don't fit or am I imagining this?!

Porsche still keeping the most sporty lump it makes out of the most sporty chassis so it seems. I suppose for a road car that visits the track only occasionally the cooking 3.8 lump better in most situations but still a tad disappointed it didnt get motorsport derived version.

It was the X51 Plenum which included longer runners that didn't fit directly apparently..it made the engine too tall to sit in the bay so would require changing of the top cover etc etc....although tuners in the US managed to fit the Powerkit without too much issue.

The GT4 engine is motorsport derived now..lol - they announced it in the race car first. This trope can finally die.

Race car engine unlikely to be the same as road engine and I doubt it will be a turbo....new GT3 engine maybe detuned

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/...

[ChrisW.]

Unless the new GT4 is spectacular (and I get an allocation) I will probably ask Jens to tune mine.

It already has Manthey suspension arms and brake ducts with KW 3 way Clubsports ... and I've replaced the PCCB discs with ST's (same as those fitted to the new AM Valkyrie) ...

It's a very early car with the splined third gear ...

I'm not sure that I would change the gearing ... plusses and minuses ...

[gtsralph]

ChrisW. said:

Unless the new GT4 is spectacular (and I get an allocation) I will probably ask Jens to tune mine.

It already has Manthey suspension arms and brake ducts with KW 3 way Clubsports ... and I've replaced the PCCB discs with ST's (same as those fitted to the new AM Valkyrie) ...

It's a very early car with the splined third gear ...

I'm not sure that I would change the gearing ... plusses and minuses ...

Chris,

You know he is installing a 991.2 GT3 engine in his 981 Clubsport as his winter project? He currently has the GT3 engine apart and is machining heads to improve...

Just get your cheque book out!

Ralph

[boxsey]

It just goes to show how things can change....there are only 17 on the OPC locator today. Six less than there were 10 days ago. Own up if you've bought one of them.

[fridaypassion]

Black one with PCCB at Leeds has gone I just dropped their customer off to pick ot up having bought his 987