Discussion
gordy.t1970 said:
Hi, looking for your thoughts and experiences of changing a Cayman R for a 981 Spyder or GT4 but wondering if I might regret selling my R, it’s well specced (manual, carbon buckets, PSE, chrono, Spyder alloys) I’ve owned it nearly 6 years and know what a special and rare car it is, just got that itch to try something else, I’m torn as appreciate the newer, more powerful and capable Caymans but concerned that they are bigger (less intimate cabin, larger footprint) and have less feel from steering but love the looks of the 981 GT4 and Spyder plus the extra performance and power but are they as special to drive on the road ? Obviously I will be looking to drive both cars in the near future to see how they drive/feel. All your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated
Ultimately only you will know if the change is for you once you drive them. Edited by gordy.t1970 on Thursday 28th November 01:40
Edited by gordy.t1970 on Thursday 28th November 01:52
My take on it for what its worth, having driven a few, the newer cars are night and day nicer to live with day to day, the cabin and build quality feels like a big step on from the 987. Arguably looks better but that's in the eye of the beholder, so cannot comment on that. Overall they look like a far more expensive and refined product.
The negatives for me at least is the steering doesn't feel as good, they don't sound as good, the bigger 3.8 or 4.0ltr doesn't rev out like 3.4 in the R.
My R is making around 350bhp so the jump in power isnt really that noticeable to me personally, it may feel a bit more compared to a stock R.
The R feels more compact and viceral to drive, but again I'm comparing it to mine which is modified. I'd say if you can afford the jump and want to, go for it.
All super special cars and I doubt you'll be unhappy in either, I wouldn't be sad to wake up to a GT4 or Spyder of any flavour on my drive.
Edited by frayz on Thursday 28th November 08:50
Thanks Frayz, after getting a lot of feedback from you and other ex owners, that have owned some nice exotica they all agreed the Cayman R was a highlight and memorable car that they regretted selling so I’m swaying towards keeping it and spending some money on refreshing it and doing some modifications to enhance an already great driver’s car, so…… I know your car from seeing it in many posts, from your experience what mods would you recommend and what to avoid to make the Cayman drive even better ? I’m considering a better LSD (Wavetrac) lighter flywheel, 200cel exhaust manifolds, remap and return to MPS Cup2’s, I’ve already fitted a GT3 gear shifter, Pagid R brake pads, braided hoses, GT3 brake ducts, polybush gearbox mount, BMC air filter and 7mm wheel spacers all round, please feel free to criticise/compliment my current and potential future mods 😂 I looking to have a fast road setup that can handle occasional track days……your advice is much appreciated 🙏🏻
gordy.t1970 said:
Thanks Frayz, after getting a lot of feedback from you and other ex owners, that have owned some nice exotica they all agreed the Cayman R was a highlight and memorable car that they regretted selling so I’m swaying towards keeping it and spending some money on refreshing it and doing some modifications to enhance an already great driver’s car, so…… I know your car from seeing it in many posts, from your experience what mods would you recommend and what to avoid to make the Cayman drive even better ? I’m considering a better LSD (Wavetrac) lighter flywheel, 200cel exhaust manifolds, remap and return to MPS Cup2’s, I’ve already fitted a GT3 gear shifter, Pagid R brake pads, braided hoses, GT3 brake ducts, polybush gearbox mount, BMC air filter and 7mm wheel spacers all round, please feel free to criticise/compliment my current and potential future mods ?? I looking to have a fast road setup that can handle occasional track days……your advice is much appreciated ????
Honestly, I don't think they need a lot and the mods for these is still pretty spendy. I was lucky that a lot of the mods on mine were done and fortunately paid for by the previous owner. However I think the bits that make the biggest difference will be chassis and handling. I wouldn't go chasing power, certainly not first of all, as there isn't a heap more to come from the motor. Id say sports cats and a decent tune will certainly get the most from it but more importantly improve the drivability. That will be your biggest gain and also one that can be enjoyed at all speeds. Not sure id bother with the cost of a plenum and larger throttle body... at this level the exhaust will release the most. You'll need to do all that before going down the plenum route anyway
I would like to add a LW flywheel to mine, I've done this on a number of previous cars and it really does make a difference to throttle response and how they pick up and drive. That would be a better and more useable gain than attempting to release extra power IMO. So you're certainly on the right track with improving the diff and FW etc.
I've got RSS billet arms on the front of mine with the adjustable caster blocks which really sharpens up the front end, so id say those and a good geo is a really nice improvement. Also, the RSS transmission mounts improve the connection to the transmission and tighten up the way the chassis handles throttle inputs, the shifter feel was also slightly enhanced when these went in. My car is still on stock dampers and I like the way it drives, although I can see in future that I may opt for a better coilover damper but retain a focus on compliance as I like that plush road feeling the stock damper provides.
Ive only ever had my car on Cup2s and like the way the car feels on them. They not an OMG amazing tyre but good enough for road and occasional track use. They offer the best steering feel IMO.
I don't think there is any really stand-out game-changing mod on the R without a significant expense, as it already drives well, but small changes collectively add up to an already great package.
Best thing you'll ever buy for a Cayman R is more fuel so you can drive it more - enjoy
gordy.t1970 said:
Thanks Frayz, after getting a lot of feedback from you and other ex owners, that have owned some nice exotica they all agreed the Cayman R was a highlight and memorable car that they regretted selling so I’m swaying towards keeping it and spending some money on refreshing it and doing some modifications to enhance an already great driver’s car, so…… I know your car from seeing it in many posts, from your experience what mods would you recommend and what to avoid to make the Cayman drive even better ? I’m considering a better LSD (Wavetrac) lighter flywheel, 200cel exhaust manifolds, remap and return to MPS Cup2’s, I’ve already fitted a GT3 gear shifter, Pagid R brake pads, braided hoses, GT3 brake ducts, polybush gearbox mount, BMC air filter and 7mm wheel spacers all round, please feel free to criticise/compliment my current and potential future mods ?? I looking to have a fast road setup that can handle occasional track days……your advice is much appreciated ????
Did you also upgrade to the GT3 Brake Master Cylinder? It won't increase outright braking performance, but I found that it transforms the pedal feel and gives far greater confidence. Regret not fitting it years ago. How it should have been from factory, as opposed to the standard master cyclinder fitted which is also shared with the base Cayman.As for tyres, I've heard very good things about the Continental Sport Contact 7. Apprently close to Cup2 levels of grip on the road, but they work as well as PS4S in wet and / or cold.
frayz said:
Honestly, I don't think they need a lot and the mods for these is still pretty spendy. I was lucky that a lot of the mods on mine were done and fortunately paid for by the previous owner. However I think the bits that make the biggest difference will be chassis and handling.
I wouldn't go chasing power, certainly not first of all, as there isn't a heap more to come from the motor. Id say sports cats and a decent tune will certainly get the most from it but more importantly improve the drivability. That will be your biggest gain and also one that can be enjoyed at all speeds. Not sure id bother with the cost of a plenum and larger throttle body... at this level the exhaust will release the most. You'll need to do all that before going down the plenum route anyway
I would like to add a LW flywheel to mine, I've done this on a number of previous cars and it really does make a difference to throttle response and how they pick up and drive. That would be a better and more useable gain than attempting to release extra power IMO. So you're certainly on the right track with improving the diff and FW etc.
I've got RSS billet arms on the front of mine with the adjustable caster blocks which really sharpens up the front end, so id say those and a good geo is a really nice improvement. Also, the RSS transmission mounts improve the connection to the transmission and tighten up the way the chassis handles throttle inputs, the shifter feel was also slightly enhanced when these went in. My car is still on stock dampers and I like the way it drives, although I can see in future that I may opt for a better coilover damper but retain a focus on compliance as I like that plush road feeling the stock damper provides.
Ive only ever had my car on Cup2s and like the way the car feels on them. They not an OMG amazing tyre but good enough for road and occasional track use. They offer the best steering feel IMO.
I don't think there is any really stand-out game-changing mod on the R without a significant expense, as it already drives well, but small changes collectively add up to an already great package.
Best thing you'll ever buy for a Cayman R is more fuel so you can drive it more - enjoy
I totally agree on the factory suspension, I think it does a brilliant job on the road and occasional track use, not to say it can’t be bettered I’m just happy with the way it feels on the road and felt great at Knockhill too, I’ve been running with custom geometry setup for a few years now with camber maxed out on front end to suppress understeer, obviously more can be done with with this as you have done. I wouldn't go chasing power, certainly not first of all, as there isn't a heap more to come from the motor. Id say sports cats and a decent tune will certainly get the most from it but more importantly improve the drivability. That will be your biggest gain and also one that can be enjoyed at all speeds. Not sure id bother with the cost of a plenum and larger throttle body... at this level the exhaust will release the most. You'll need to do all that before going down the plenum route anyway
I would like to add a LW flywheel to mine, I've done this on a number of previous cars and it really does make a difference to throttle response and how they pick up and drive. That would be a better and more useable gain than attempting to release extra power IMO. So you're certainly on the right track with improving the diff and FW etc.
I've got RSS billet arms on the front of mine with the adjustable caster blocks which really sharpens up the front end, so id say those and a good geo is a really nice improvement. Also, the RSS transmission mounts improve the connection to the transmission and tighten up the way the chassis handles throttle inputs, the shifter feel was also slightly enhanced when these went in. My car is still on stock dampers and I like the way it drives, although I can see in future that I may opt for a better coilover damper but retain a focus on compliance as I like that plush road feeling the stock damper provides.
Ive only ever had my car on Cup2s and like the way the car feels on them. They not an OMG amazing tyre but good enough for road and occasional track use. They offer the best steering feel IMO.
I don't think there is any really stand-out game-changing mod on the R without a significant expense, as it already drives well, but small changes collectively add up to an already great package.
Best thing you'll ever buy for a Cayman R is more fuel so you can drive it more - enjoy
I’m not convinced with IPD plenum, heard a few mixed reviews of the gains you get considering the price.
My car originally ran with Cup 2’s and I immediately regretted changing them to PS4s, the car’s steering lost it’s immediacy and feel, it also squirmed and wandered under hard braking from their softer sidewalls, I was gutted tbh, so I will change back to Cup2’s in the spring, only negative for me is managing them in heavy rain and standing water, the car can feel a bit twitchy and nervous, but the he gains to be had definitely outweigh that negative.
Thanks again for sharing your experience
I had a CR for a good few years and ran it alongside various other toys including a 991GT3, a 981 GT4, and a 718 Spyder. Not all at the same time obvs . I co owned it with one of my sons and eventually he wanted out to fund a house purchase so it got sold. Which was a sad day. I can confirm pretty much everything that Frayz said. Back to back the newer cars are nicer as static objects and to interact with as daily drivers. However they are not as nice to drive. The R has lovely steering, lovely noise, a proper power band and a delicacy which is lacking in the newer stuff.
Should you decide to swop then I would heartily recommend skipping the 981GT4, after an R the engine especially is a real let down, it’s like driving a high performance diesel, and the steering feel isn’t up to much either. The 718 generation is much better and feels like a proper step up from the R.
I may well get another R. Easier for me as I really like the PDK, especially on track, and I don’t want a manual. I just drove mine, PDK, everywhere in sport mode and using the paddles. I would like one with PCCBs as well for the weight saving.
As far as tuning goes I think it is very much a law of diminishing returns with that engine. I don’t see evidence that big spend in this area reaps rewards. I have built a 3.9L unit for a Cayman S which cost a fortune and made good power and torque but in terms of value for money it was a poor choice. A light fettle to make sure that everything is in tip top shape, improve the breathing and leave it well alone. The chassis is well matched to 340 - 360 bhp so leave it there.
You can thrash the tits of a Cayman R without any grief, they are very robust. The chassis mods are well understood and a few tweaks from later cars may well be worthwhile, adjustable top mounts for more camber maybe? Solid bushes, longer TCAs. Just find a set up that you like. Oh and don’t go too stiff otherwise you loose the lovely way they “breath with the road”.
. I co owned it with one of my sons and eventually he wanted out to fund a house purchase so it got sold. Which was a sad day. I can confirm pretty much everything that Frayz said. Back to back the newer cars are nicer as static objects and to interact with as daily drivers. However they are not as nice to drive. The R has lovely steering, lovely noise, a proper power band and a delicacy which is lacking in the newer stuff. Should you decide to swop then I would heartily recommend skipping the 981GT4, after an R the engine especially is a real let down, it’s like driving a high performance diesel, and the steering feel isn’t up to much either. The 718 generation is much better and feels like a proper step up from the R.
I may well get another R. Easier for me as I really like the PDK, especially on track, and I don’t want a manual. I just drove mine, PDK, everywhere in sport mode and using the paddles. I would like one with PCCBs as well for the weight saving.
As far as tuning goes I think it is very much a law of diminishing returns with that engine. I don’t see evidence that big spend in this area reaps rewards. I have built a 3.9L unit for a Cayman S which cost a fortune and made good power and torque but in terms of value for money it was a poor choice. A light fettle to make sure that everything is in tip top shape, improve the breathing and leave it well alone. The chassis is well matched to 340 - 360 bhp so leave it there.
You can thrash the tits of a Cayman R without any grief, they are very robust. The chassis mods are well understood and a few tweaks from later cars may well be worthwhile, adjustable top mounts for more camber maybe? Solid bushes, longer TCAs. Just find a set up that you like. Oh and don’t go too stiff otherwise you loose the lovely way they “breath with the road”.
gordy.t1970 said:
Hi, looking for your thoughts and experiences of changing a Cayman R for a 981 Spyder or GT4 but wondering if I might regret selling my R, it’s well specced (manual, carbon buckets, PSE, chrono, Spyder alloys) I’ve owned it nearly 6 years and know what a special and rare car it is, just got that itch to try something else, I’m torn as appreciate the newer, more powerful and capable Caymans but concerned that they are bigger (less intimate cabin, larger footprint) and have less feel from steering but love the looks of the 981 GT4 and Spyder plus the extra performance and power but are they as special to drive on the road ? Obviously I will be looking to drive both cars in the near future to see how they drive/feel. All your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated
I swapped my R for a 981GT4. Really enjoyed my two years in the 4. It felt bigger at first but I soon got used to that. On roads it feels more of an event than the R. Seeing the wing in the rear view mirror is part of that. It's also much more composed than the R. It doesn't jiggle or move around as much as an R. It even rides pot holes much better. You need to push it on track to get it to come alive. It needs speed to do that. However, the limits are much higher and harder to reach for an average driver like me. I reached its limit once on a damp track. It was very sudden and very quick. Thankfully the PSM saved me from having a big off. I always tracked the R with the PSM off and always felt that I could handle it at the limit because of its almost telegraphic feedback. I'm back in the R now because I bought it back when i came up for sale and I prefer the PDK in the R much more than I did the manual of the 4.Edited by gordy.t1970 on Thursday 28th November 01:40
Edited by gordy.t1970 on Thursday 28th November 01:52
KurtLA said:
KittyLitter said:
8 Owners, standard for these?the benno said:
Yet another PDK
Manual for sale! be quick!https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411266...
AAAndy said:
Did you also upgrade to the GT3 Brake Master Cylinder? It won't increase outright braking performance, but I found that it transforms the pedal feel and gives far greater confidence. Regret not fitting it years ago. How it should have been from factory, as opposed to the standard master cyclinder fitted which is also shared with the base Cayman.
As for tyres, I've heard very good things about the Continental Sport Contact 7. Apprently close to Cup2 levels of grip on the road, but they work as well as PS4S in wet and / or cold.
Yeah sounds like a worthwhile mod for the brakes, nice to have a good firm pedal at the top of it’s travel, also heard good things about Conti 7’s, and probably a bit cheaper than Cup2’’sAs for tyres, I've heard very good things about the Continental Sport Contact 7. Apprently close to Cup2 levels of grip on the road, but they work as well as PS4S in wet and / or cold.
gordy.t1970 said:
I’m not convinced with IPD plenum, heard a few mixed reviews of the gains you get considering the price.
Controversial, but I asked one of the most respected Porsche engine mappers in the UK about the IPD plenum a couple of years ago. Their response:IPD plenums are a complete disaster. I've never tested a single one, on any spec of car, that didn't lose a lump of upper midrange and a little top end too. I honestly can't believe how they still sell them, besides the 'placebo' effect and people saying how good they feel without actually testing them properly.
Maybe you need supporting mods and a map for them to work.
boxsey said:
I swapped my R for a 981GT4. Really enjoyed my two years in the 4. It felt bigger at first but I soon got used to that. On roads it feels more of an event than the R. Seeing the wing in the rear view mirror is part of that. It's also much more composed than the R. It doesn't jiggle or move around as much as an R. It even rides pot holes much better. You need to push it on track to get it to come alive. It needs speed to do that. However, the limits are much higher and harder to reach for an average driver like me. I reached its limit once on a damp track. It was very sudden and very quick. Thankfully the PSM saved me from having a big off. I always tracked the R with the PSM off and always felt that I could handle it at the limit because of its almost telegraphic feedback. I'm back in the R now because I bought it back when i came up for sale and I prefer the PDK in the R much more than I did the manual of the 4.
Thanks for that, now I’m more torn lol, love my R but GT4 looks amazing, I had discounted the 718 but your description of it makes me think I should have a look at them too, basically need to drive 981 and 718 and see what I get best feeling about, or just keep enjoying the R and invest some money in to doing some proven modifications to improve and already great carI recently sold my Cayman R after 6 years of ownership, bloody brilliant car, I wouldn't of bothered getting a GT4 in place of it as I think the R is a purer drivers car for the road.
I changed to a 991.1 S with PDK so a night and day change, if I was doing a fast mountain pass I'd prefer the R all day long, in most other ways it's nice to be in a 911 again.
The steering feel in the 987 R is some of the best you will get in a modern Porsche.
I changed to a 991.1 S with PDK so a night and day change, if I was doing a fast mountain pass I'd prefer the R all day long, in most other ways it's nice to be in a 911 again.
The steering feel in the 987 R is some of the best you will get in a modern Porsche.
GT03 said:
Controversial, but I asked one of the most respected Porsche engine mappers in the UK about the IPD plenum a couple of years ago. Their response:
IPD plenums are a complete disaster. I've never tested a single one, on any spec of car, that didn't lose a lump of upper midrange and a little top end too. I honestly can't believe how they still sell them, besides the 'placebo' effect and people saying how good they feel without actually testing them properly.
Maybe you need supporting mods and a map for them to work.
Intersting isn't it. IPD plenums are a complete disaster. I've never tested a single one, on any spec of car, that didn't lose a lump of upper midrange and a little top end too. I honestly can't believe how they still sell them, besides the 'placebo' effect and people saying how good they feel without actually testing them properly.
Maybe you need supporting mods and a map for them to work.
Engine wise, mine has the EVOMs intake, IPD, GT3 TB, Fabspeed 200 cell headers and Remus Ti system. This was live mapped by Steve Mason from MASE engineering. It makes anything from 345bhp (SRR) to 375bhp (Regal Autosport) depending on whos dyno its on. I have printouts of both.
On the same day the boys run the following cars at SRR:
Stock Cayman S PDK - 299bhp
Stock 987 Spyder - 314bhp
My modified CR - 346bhp
its all here if you fancy a read : https://www.planet-9.com/threads/surrey-rolling-ro...
Take of it what you will, but casting the headline figures aside, it feels more urgent to drive and less breathless up top. Im not sure what the torque figures are, i'll have to check. I don't have the information, but id be keen to know how much of that power was gained/lost/altered by the addition of the IPD plenum.
Even if it was a full whopping 370bhp, on the road, the difference is going to be negligible. 40hp isn't a big enough delta to make any change worth chasing for the money it costs to get there, it just feels a bit more eager. So if youre really keen to get a bit more power I still think that a set of sports cats and tune will net the biggest hp bang for buck. Any further money spent should be honing an already superb chassis.
Just go enjoy it
Edited by frayz on Friday 29th November 09:53
First post after a longtime lurking on here!
Totally agree what the others have said about spending money on upgrades. My car came with the full RSS kit and a decent setup and the difference in front end grip is almost night and day compared to a standard car.
Also just switched to Conti 7's for the winter having only known the car on Cup2's. Ok for the road but can't wait to switch back once the weather gets better. Car felt so much better on the Michelins
Totally agree what the others have said about spending money on upgrades. My car came with the full RSS kit and a decent setup and the difference in front end grip is almost night and day compared to a standard car.
Also just switched to Conti 7's for the winter having only known the car on Cup2's. Ok for the road but can't wait to switch back once the weather gets better. Car felt so much better on the Michelins
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