Cayman R Chat

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

bit of both imo as it’s mainly new owners of the cars which seem to break them !

Normally from a 1st to 2nd or 3th to 4th shift.
Also the same people seem to have the same issues if you hunt down why on forums.

I have ran 987's for 13 years over 4 cars not had the issue.

Most people seem to buy a 30k mile cars and then report they got stuck within a week of owning it !

Any way you can upgrade the ends or fit the newmeric ones.

I'm about as gentle as they come when it comes to changing gears. I also consider myself very mechanically sympathetic having been a spannerman in a previous life. Hence my dislike of anything that even whiffs of a quickshift (factory or otherwise), there is an honourable exception, that being the superb and expensive Manthey billet quickshift.

As for hopeless standard cables failing due to owner abuse, sorry, not buying that one. You yourself have admitted that the cable routing is sub-optimal and that fitting the Function First ? engine/transmission mount inserts cuts down movement of the drivetrain sufficiently to extend the cable's lives.

Far from being owner abuse, I suspect it's more a case of the cables failing at roughly 30K irrespective of how the car is driven, and it's an unfortunate coincidence that many cars are sold at around the 30k mile mark, and most new owners will be using the cars more than the outgoing owner...

No matter, if you decide to sweep with such a broad brush, perhaps give the matter a bit more than such superficial thought AND perhaps think outside the box too ?

[Porsche911R]

Slippydiff said:

I'm about as gentle as they come when it comes to changing gears. I also consider myself very mechanically sympathetic having been a spannerman in a previous life. Hence my dislike of anything that even whiffs of a quickshift (factory or otherwise), there is an honourable exception, that being the superb and expensive Manthey billet quickshift.

As for hopeless standard cables failing due to owner abuse, sorry, not buying that one. You yourself have admitted that the cable routing is sub-optimal and that fitting the Function First ? engine/transmission mount inserts cuts down movement of the drivetrain sufficiently to extend the cable's lives.

Far from being owner abuse, I suspect it's more a case of the cables failing at roughly 30K irrespective of how the car is driven, and it's an unfortunate coincidence that many cars are sold at around the 30k mile mark, and most new owners will be using the cars more than the outgoing owner...

No matter, if you decide to sweep with such a broad brush, perhaps give the matter a bit more than such superficial thought AND perhaps think outside the box too ?

Yes it's wear, BUT it will only pop off if the shift lever is pulled beyond the limit, it's easy to see the issue and a few companies offer a fix.

It's not a coincidence it seems to be 90% of the time new owners !! inc you as well :-p , as they have not got used to the lever travel so will over extend the shift, and then due to wear it will pop off or worse snap.

So yes it's wear and yes a crap design, but it pops off due to an over extended shift lever ie a human has forced it !

I have ran these cars for 13 years and 60k+ miles only one car has a engine mount, I now expect mine to fail !! ;-)

Be another winter project to fit some secure clips to the ends.

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

Yes it's wear, BUT it will only pop off if the shift lever is pulled beyond the limit, it's easy to see the issue and a few companies offer a fix.

It's not a coincidence it seems to be 90% of the time new owners !! inc you as well :-p , as they have not got used to the lever travel so will over extend the shift, and then due to wear it will pop off or worse snap.

So yes it's wear and yes a crap design, but it pops off due to an over extended shift lever ie a human has forced it !

I have ran these cars for 13 years and 60k+ miles only one car has a engine mount, I now expect mine to fail !! ;-)

Be another winter project to fit some secure clips to the ends.

IF, and I stress IF, the cables pop off/break due to being "over extended", that's design fault, not a user fault ... put simply, any control surface that can be over-extended by the user to the point it causes component failure, is an inherent design fault. End of.

If you doubt that, would you accept a VW Golf R that had front CV joints that self destruct when you turn the steering on full lock ?

I can just imagine the conversation with your local VW Service Advisor :

You : “So what’s the problem with the car ?”

Service Advisor : "Well sir, the CV joints have failed because you've continually turned the steering wheel too far whilst getting your car off the drive every morning ..."

You : "How do you suggest I avoid a repetition of this issue then?"

Service Advisor : "You just need to turn the steering wheel less sir, then the CV joints won't fail"

You : "Is that not a design fault if the car's steering rack enables me to turn the front wheels so far it damages the CV joints ??"

Service Advisor : "You may think that sir, I couldn't possibly comment ..."

Let’s not forget it’s the same shift in a 996/997, same cables (albeit longer and better routed) same shift levers on the 996/7 'box, and I'm guessing the selector forks, synchro hubs and baulk rings are all identical too. All of which point to it being a 987 specific design gearshift cable/routing issue...

As you said, they tend to go between a 1st and 2nd change, which is exactly what mine did as I pulled out of junction. I drove the car home in first gear some 15 miles, rather than wait for assistance at 8.30 in the evening ....
And rather than have the car bouncing off the rev limiter the whole time, I just "revved and coasted".

Despite getting a discounted rate for the cable replacement (because it was an older car .... !!!) I was mightily pissed that a well known flaw hadn't been addressed by Porsche despite the 987 having been in production some 10-11 years.

Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 23 September 18:50

[lemmingjames]

Sounds like Demons got a £15k refresh to do over the winter tbh

[Mogsmex]

Budflicker said:

Nice to meet you, Glynn and the ladies Frazier. We had a lovely morning as well. Nice photos, I'll PM you my email

he does a good piccy does Mr Frayz

nice to meet you and Mrs Bud, was a nice way to spend the morning

s3 akr said:

Sorry to have missed you guys for the photos. I think that you had gone on the guided tour, but I had to get home as I'd promised my boy hat we'd get to the Colchester United game!

shame you had to shoot off your car looked good in the car park ! sure there will be another Essex mini meet

Edited by Mogsmex on Tuesday 24th September 08:05

[K400RDY]

FTW said:

Morning.

A small update on the R. It’s currently sat in the hills above of Lake Como having a well earned rest having been to the ‘Ring, Davos, Stelvio and St Moritz.

Giro discs and 5mm front spacers have been a great addition. I’ll do a full write up when we get back. Two days at then Monza GP followed by a Spa trackday on the way back.

Morning All,

Just caught up on the thread having got back from from my little Euro jaunt. Shame i missed you in Como as we were there at the same time! Took in some amazing mountain roads & the car was simply faultless.

Now covered 3k Miles since the beginning of Aug. Trackday at Pembrey and the Euro trip taking in Stelvio, Umbrail & Gotthard passes via Lucerne, Bormio, Como, Monza F1, Chamonix & Annecy.

Must thank the previous owners for saving their / the miles for me to enjoy! As others have mentioned car now worthless sitting on 16800 miles but what a fun couple months!!!! Enjoy your cars ladies & gents.

Weather was a little hit and miss on the trip but have to add a couple obligatory pics. (Apologies, (for the eagle eyed) about the wheels in advance as left my track wheels / tyres on for the trip)

Edited by K400RDY on Tuesday 24th September 09:39

Edited by K400RDY on Tuesday 24th September 09:51

Edited by K400RDY on Tuesday 24th September 09:52

[s3 akr]

All of these awesome euro trips are making me feel a need!!! I plotted some good routes to take in some great roads so just need to get onto it for when the weather picks back up in spring time as this year has gotten away from me with other stuff going on that got in the way.

In the interim, probably going to do a track day at Brands on Tuesday since I've done nothing to speak of in the car this year really!

[Porsche911R]

K400RDY said:

Morning All,

Just caught up on the thread having got back from from my little Euro jaunt. Shame i missed you in Como as we were there at the same time! Took in some amazing mountain roads & the car was simply faultless.

Edited by K400RDY on Tuesday 24th September 09:51

Edited by K400RDY on Tuesday 24th September 09:52

how do you find these sorts of roads, as personally I don't really enjoy them in manuals, you cannot really get the car into 1st gear and 2nd is way to boggy for the switch backs, so really for driving pleasure, I don't like the passes that much and they are more suited to PDK's where you can get into 1st very easy. I try and pick routes now to suit the car over these iconic passes. Although my OH wants to do some next year after having a good time this year on a hoon (1st one I have taken her on), great for pics though so she will be wanting to stop every few miles for selfies !

[frayz]

Stunning photos, sounds like a superb trip

[FTW]

Porsche911R said:

how do you find these sorts of roads, as personally I don't really enjoy them in manuals, you cannot really get the car into 1st gear and 2nd is way to boggy for the switch backs, so really for driving pleasure, I don't like the passes that much and they are more suited to PDK's where you can get into 1st very easy. I try and pick routes now to suit the car over these iconic passes. Although my OH wants to do some next year after having a good time this year on a hoon (1st one I have taken her on), great for pics though so she will be wanting to stop every few miles for selfies !

My car being PDK was perfectly suited to these types of roads, sport plus mode and ESP 'Off' meant 2nd - 1st and 1st to 2nd changes were brilliant.

We actually got stuck on Umbrail pass due to a combination of servere hail sticking to the road and Cup 2 tyres! Thankfully we got going again. Did you avoid the the hail and snow?

The R was great for the whole trip. It was a delight on the Ring and Spa, it felt perfectly sized for the passes and just comfortable enough for the Autobahn/ Autoroute sections. The maximum speed achieved was 177mph on the 'bahn (169mph on the Ring) and an overall economy figure of 19mpg.

I'd thoroughly recommend a more aggressive geo set up, +5mm front spacers and the Giro discs with Pagid pads upfront.






And finally - 2000miles of brake dust!

[Porsche911R]

FTW said:

My car being PDK was perfectly suited to these types of roads, sport plus mode and ESP 'Off' meant 2nd - 1st and 1st to 2nd changes were brilliant.

yep PDK for the win on those roads ;-)

177 is impressive, Most I have got was 173, but GPS speed not on the dials.

[frayz]

Even more impressed at the 169mph on the Ring, where was that?
Schwedenkreuz?

Ive only managed 169 on the 'bahn, and that took some serious doing due to running out of safe road lol.

[Jim1556]

GT3 race cars might hit 170 on SX, not a standard R.

I'd say either DH on a trackday (still rather impressive) or a typo.

[FTW]

frayz said:

Even more impressed at the 169mph on the Ring, where was that?
Schwedenkreuz?

Ive only managed 169 on the 'bahn, and that took some serious doing due to running out of safe road lol.

Sorry, 159. My bad typing and yes at Schwedenkreuz. It was only quick glance at the speedo.

Edited by FTW on Tuesday 24th September 12:13

[frayz]

FTW said:

Sorry, 159. My bad typing and yes at Schwedenkreuz. It was only quick glance at the speedo.

Edited by FTW on Tuesday 24th September 12:13

Still a proper lick on. Any ideas of what times were you running BTG?

[K400RDY]

Porsche911R said:

how do you find these sorts of roads, as personally I don't really enjoy them in manuals, you cannot really get the car into 1st gear and 2nd is way to boggy for the switch backs, so really for driving pleasure, I don't like the passes that much and they are more suited to PDK's where you can get into 1st very easy. I try and pick routes now to suit the car over these iconic passes. Although my OH wants to do some next year after having a good time this year on a hoon (1st one I have taken her on), great for pics though so she will be wanting to stop every few miles for selfies !

I agree, it was a tick in the box exercise driving the passes but stunning scenery to go along the way so your OH will be happy, as was mine (apart from the odd please dont kill me quip!!!)

Stelvio is way to tight and a few parts unsighted etc to have proper driving pleasure as you say. I enjoyed many of the roads linking the different passes / towns especially the odd hoon with locals who knew the roads well.

Still a great trip and good to get some proper miles with the car.

P.s One speeding ticket landed so far !

[K400RDY]

FTW said:

My car being PDK was perfectly suited to these types of roads, sport plus mode and ESP 'Off' meant 2nd - 1st and 1st to 2nd changes were brilliant.

We actually got stuck on Umbrail pass due to a combination of servere hail sticking to the road and Cup 2 tyres! Thankfully we got going again. Did you avoid the the hail and snow?

The R was great for the whole trip. It was a delight on the Ring and Spa, it felt perfectly sized for the passes and just comfortable enough for the Autobahn/ Autoroute sections. The maximum speed achieved was 177mph on the 'bahn (169mph on the Ring) and an overall economy figure of 19mpg.

I'd thoroughly recommend a more aggressive geo set up, +5mm front spacers and the Giro discs with Pagid pads upfront.






And finally - 2000miles of brake dust!

I thought we avoided the snow / hail but the Stelvio was closed about 3/4's of the way down which was a pain and a blessing as we had an overnight booked in Bormio and the only way to get there was driving the Umbrail and going the long way round, DAM !!!

Will take on board the info regarding brakes / geo. My standard brakes just about stood up ok at Pembrey but there is a big braking zone down from 130 mph to 30 mph ish for a hairpin which really pushed them to the limit, nearly braked to late a couple times!

Also ruined the outside (Fronts) of a brand new set of super sports due to lack of camber i believe?

Kev

[FTW]

K400RDY said:

I thought we avoided the snow / hail but the Stelvio was closed about 3/4's of the way down which was a pain and a blessing as we had an overnight booked in Bormio and the only way to get there was driving the Umbrail and going the long way round, DAM !!!

Will take on board the info regarding brakes / geo. My standard brakes just about stood up ok at Pembrey but there is a big braking zone down from 130 mph to 30 mph ish for a hairpin which really pushed them to the limit, nearly braked to late a couple times!

Also ruined the outside (Fronts) of a brand new set of super sports due to lack of camber i believe?

Kev

The drive from Davos to Umbrail pass was great and in fact I preferred Umbrail to Stelvio. The adverse weather we had meant we only saw a handful of other cars. We woke up in the morning to find half of Stelvio shut so we ended up going back down Umbrail.

I run maximum front camber which is a must for track driving I'd say. In fact I could do with running a bit more but that means GT3 LCAs.

[bigmowley]

Porsche911R said:

FTW said:

My car being PDK was perfectly suited to these types of roads, sport plus mode and ESP 'Off' meant 2nd - 1st and 1st to 2nd changes were brilliant.

yep PDK for the win on those roads ;-)

177 is impressive, Most I have got was 173, but GPS speed not on the dials.

I did the 177 and it took a lot of getting

I had it maxed out at 282kph in 6th at just under the red line but I could not remember the peak power revs so I was not sure if it was over the power peak. So I flipped it out of sport plus and changed up into seventh to see if it would go any quicker, PDK car, it didn't and actually dropped a couple of kph . It then kicked down back into 6th gear again all on its own at which point I nearly shat myself as I wasn't expecting that especially as it was almost bang on the red line in 6th. I thought it had blown up for a split second. It then ran up to 285kph at which point I had to do the full anchors out stop as a van had pulled out in front of FTW up the road in the R8 which was breezing along at 320Kph at the time.

Good effort that by Porsche engineering a kick down at that speed and engine speed. Nice one!

[bigmowley]

My thoughts on the R at Spa:

In a word brilliant, the little tweak with the spacers at the front worked an absolute treat. The bit of understeer it had previously was gone and the whole car felt beautifully planted and neutral. It just gently pivots around a point just behind the drivers seat and goes into a lovely drift which is easy to control with the throttle or the steering, it's very very quick through the fast bits like Pouhon or Blanchimont and very reassuring. Brakes were fine no issues. Compared to the CGT4 which we had round Spa it's not quite as torquey and you have to rev its brains out (which I love btw), but given its a PDK then I would like to bet there is not much in overall lap times. The bigger tyre footprint of the GT4 and the superb brakes might give it the edge but there is very little in it.

I loved driving it because it is easy to get the best out of it and it's not too quick, if that makes sense. You feel very connected to the car. It's also small, neat and tidy.

I've got a bit of footage somewhere of my chum in his 488GTB comprehensively out braking himself at the end of the Kemmel Straight as he tries to keep up with the R after I overtook him at the bus stop. To be fair he is on pilot sports not Cup2's, but it's shows how rapid a well sorted R can be.

The R8 on the other hand is night and day quicker but much harder to drive to its limits, to a certain extent it drives you. You certainly get out of the R8 at the end of a stint in a much sweatier state.

My only criticism and it's a small one is that the downshifts on the PDK are a touch old school after the GT3 and the R8, not as well rev matched and not as sharp. Presumably because it's an older generation of PDK box? Perfectly OK though and it's only nitpicking.

We have a 718 Spyder incoming at the end of October and the three cars together should be an almost perfect track day garage. Roll on next year.