Discussion
911jon said:
Hi Andy,
The carbon buckets, aluminium doors (S are steel) and spyder alloys along with a/c delete etc save 55Kg over the Cayman S. This, in conjunction with the R suspension and power uplift (255bhp/ton) add up to more than the sum of the parts.
The car just feels more connected to the road, lighter, faster, more special to drive. There is a sense of occasion (and a big grin) every time I get in it. I too had considered a 987.2 S (and a 997 3.6), but as soon as I tried an R, I was hooked.
You might suggest that I am exhibiting confirmation bias, but I am a designer and engineer and do my homework pretty carefully when buying a car; I plan to keep the R long-term.
Jon
Yes, I am trying to get a go in one. Not many in Nth Ireland but I'll seek one out.The carbon buckets, aluminium doors (S are steel) and spyder alloys along with a/c delete etc save 55Kg over the Cayman S. This, in conjunction with the R suspension and power uplift (255bhp/ton) add up to more than the sum of the parts.
The car just feels more connected to the road, lighter, faster, more special to drive. There is a sense of occasion (and a big grin) every time I get in it. I too had considered a 987.2 S (and a 997 3.6), but as soon as I tried an R, I was hooked.
You might suggest that I am exhibiting confirmation bias, but I am a designer and engineer and do my homework pretty carefully when buying a car; I plan to keep the R long-term.
Jon
I do get what you mean about a series of light tweaks to a Cayman would add up to alot.
p.s. I'm a Mech Eng so do like alot of research.
Andyoz said:
Yes, I am trying to get a go in one. Not many in Nth Ireland but I'll seek one out.
I do get what you mean about a series of light tweaks to a Cayman would add up to alot.
p.s. I'm a Mech Eng so do like alot of research.
Best of luck with finding one to try, Andy. Be warned, it's a dangerous path!I do get what you mean about a series of light tweaks to a Cayman would add up to alot.
p.s. I'm a Mech Eng so do like alot of research.
A gent flew over from NI to buy my old Alfa GT with the Busso 3.2 V6. Not many of those there either!
911jon said:
Best of luck with finding one to try, Andy. Be warned, it's a dangerous path!
A gent flew over from NI to buy my old Alfa GT with the Busso 3.2 V6. Not many of those there either!
Yes, I'd braced myself for a similar journey finding the Cayman S but a minter turned up in Belfast...will see if the Porsche Club NI or Ireland has any members with an R.A gent flew over from NI to buy my old Alfa GT with the Busso 3.2 V6. Not many of those there either!
Just looked at that Busso engine and it's a work of art. My Brother in law is an Alfa nut....if they did RWD Brera I'd have had a look!
Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 12th November 14:08
Porsche911R said:
tough call if you have circa £45k for a porker not to buy this. And I love the R to bits, would like another in an ideal world.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Buy that car for £47K and you better keep it for the rest of your life or when you come to sell it hope that there is another person willing to pay top money for it privately. Trade bid on that car to buy would be around £33-35K so private sale would be £37-39K if you are patient. Most buyers want a Porsche warranty so that's another £2K. A 997.2 is a fairly safe place to put your money but this needs to be 3-4K cheaper.https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Andyoz said:
Yes, I'd braced myself for a similar journey finding the Cayman S but a minter turned up in Belfast...will see if the Porsche Club NI or Ireland has any members with an R.
Just looked at that Busso engine and it's a work of art. My Brother in law is an Alfa nut....if they did RWD Brera I'd have had a look!
Hi Andy,Just looked at that Busso engine and it's a work of art. My Brother in law is an Alfa nut....if they did RWD Brera I'd have had a look!
Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 12th November 14:08
The Busso was a gorgeous engine, strong torque and a free-revving top end as well as lovely looking and voted the best sounding V6 ever in a few places. Sadly killed in 2005 by Euro emissions laws; Fiat did not want to pay to update the production line. I loved my GT and would have liked to keep it but have too many cars; no space.
The Brera sadly did not have the Busso, it had a GM-sourced 3.2 V6 - think V6 Vectra engine; that met the Euro emissions. GM had a shareholding in Fiat at the time. Much heavier engine (V6 Breras are ~200Kg heavier than the V6 GT) and inferior to drive in my view. This was mine:
Edited by 911jon on Tuesday 12th November 15:10
moonigan said:
Porsche911R said:
tough call if you have circa £45k for a porker not to buy this. And I love the R to bits, would like another in an ideal world.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Buy that car for £47K and you better keep it for the rest of your life or when you come to sell it hope that there is another person willing to pay top money for it privately. Trade bid on that car to buy would be around £33-35K so private sale would be £37-39K if you are patient. Most buyers want a Porsche warranty so that's another £2K. A 997.2 is a fairly safe place to put your money but this needs to be 3-4K cheaper.https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I have been looking for 18months, there have been 3 cars worth buying in that time.
I have bought other stuff so cannot afford one atm. frustration....
best cars always fetch top money this is the best 2WD manual 997.2 S for sale
You won't see sub 30k miles cars with all the spec for £37k !!! most people are keeping hold of them.
Harbour Cars have a nice one also but 37k miles and £43k.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 12th November 15:44
911jon said:
Porsche911R said:
buyers are fussy buggers on R's also every one wants a low miles fully spec car for £40k and that's not happing.
PSE and miles is reducing the JZM buyers market and the high price and no PSE has reduced the Glasgow car market.
911R, I realise that you are a guru, but I am not sure I entirely agree with this. PSE and miles is reducing the JZM buyers market and the high price and no PSE has reduced the Glasgow car market.
I agree to a point and with you my Spyder has NO AC, NO RADIO and pccbs's but it's a tiny market for that spec.
the market demands PSE right or wrong...at £45k I would demand PSE. every car has a sale price, the cars left for sale over the cars which have sold have bit's missing and thus too expensive.
Porsche911R said:
find me another one !! that's the rub, this is a great spec car with low miles. there are no cars about.
I have been looking for 18months, there have been 3 cars worth buying in that time.
I have bought other stuff so cannot afford one atm. frustration....
best cars always fetch top money this is the best 2WD manual 997.2 S for sale
You won't see sub 30k miles cars with all the spec for £37k !!! most people are keeping hold of them.
Harbour Cars have a nice one also but 37k miles and £43k.
My car was a lot harder to sell than I had expected. It had the right spec, late model, OPC warranty, low miles, perfect history and it took 3 months to sell in summer when it could be driven and when it sold it was the cheapest car 997.2 on PH, Autotrader and E-Bay. Plenty of trade enquiries but they all offered low ball bids. OPC wanted a £10+K spread. They would have listed it a £42K.I have been looking for 18months, there have been 3 cars worth buying in that time.
I have bought other stuff so cannot afford one atm. frustration....
best cars always fetch top money this is the best 2WD manual 997.2 S for sale
You won't see sub 30k miles cars with all the spec for £37k !!! most people are keeping hold of them.
Harbour Cars have a nice one also but 37k miles and £43k.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 12th November 15:44
The buyer had it inspected and was told it was the best condition car they had seen in a very long time.Whilst not an unpleasant experience it has put me off selling anything around this value privately because the market is very small and I suspect the market for the R is smaller still.
Prior to buying the 997.2 a couple of years ago I looked long and hard at Cayman R and decided they were not worth the premium over a similar aged 997.2 and my feelings haven't changed. Its a beautiful looking car but I don't think it represents value at £40K+.
I was in a similar dilemma when buying my R, as frankly, at that time, i wanted a 2wd, NA manual and special 911. The Cayman was a swear word, its engine was in the wrong place, it wasn't a 911 blah blah blah.
I drove a number of 911s in 996 and 997 guise including a 997.2S. However lovely they are, they're just another 911. They could have the best spec and the lowest miles, but they're just another 911. A turbo is a totally different thing and isn't representative of an enjoyable drivers car to me and the GT3 boat had long sailed, i couldn't afford one.
I was pushed to try and Cayman R against my will and im so glad i did. It offered every bit of driver focus i was looking for and was far more special than i had given it credit for.
On paper no way an R is worth a £20K premium over a 987.2 Cayman S? However anyone that knows what special cars feel like, know they deliver a driving and ownership experience that is far greater than the sum of their parts or price.
No AC or PSE here, and getting ever closer to 40k miles... that's absolutely fine by me.
I drove a number of 911s in 996 and 997 guise including a 997.2S. However lovely they are, they're just another 911. They could have the best spec and the lowest miles, but they're just another 911. A turbo is a totally different thing and isn't representative of an enjoyable drivers car to me and the GT3 boat had long sailed, i couldn't afford one.
I was pushed to try and Cayman R against my will and im so glad i did. It offered every bit of driver focus i was looking for and was far more special than i had given it credit for.
On paper no way an R is worth a £20K premium over a 987.2 Cayman S? However anyone that knows what special cars feel like, know they deliver a driving and ownership experience that is far greater than the sum of their parts or price.
No AC or PSE here, and getting ever closer to 40k miles... that's absolutely fine by me.
Andyoz said:
My issue with the "it can only go up" mantra is that under some circumstances it can't.
Another mini shock to the financial system can flush out a few sellers. We are due one that's for sure.
Personally ive given up with buying a car for financial investment. Buy it knowing youre going to lose money, then if you get any other outcome, you've had a result.Another mini shock to the financial system can flush out a few sellers. We are due one that's for sure.
The only investment any car should be purchased for, is the investment in ones driving enjoyment.
As a general comment, I think you can look at a lot of cars "on paper" and question the value for money, but it's far more than that when you know what you want and when supply is outstripped by demand. Look at the 968 CS - I think that is a good example of another Porsche that is valued high by the market and those lucky enough to have one, yet you have to question how different it is to its sibling models within the 968 range. I see the Cayman R vs Cayman S being akin to that comparison.
Does this look a familiar approach to add lightness (from Evo Magazine) ?
The Club Sport came along a year after and took all the best bits and combined them into a superbly balanced and unexpectedly satisfying whole, but there was also less to it than that. Deleted items included the rear seats, air conditioning, rear wiper, electronic tailgate release and a chunk of sound deadening, while the electric windows became wind-up and the standard, electrically adjusted Recaros were replaced by lightweight, fixed-back Recaro buckets. The total weight saving was an impressive 50kg, providing, of course, that the customer went for this pauper spec.
When you throw a 911 into the mix, then the question for me is about having the most focused 987.2 in the range versus having a less focused 911. If I wanted the 911refinement then that's where my money would have gone, but the type of car I wanted and the type of driving I wanted it for were not really where the 911 was in terms of the models available at the same price point at he time.
You can take a Cayman S (or 911) and modify it to your tastes and probably do so for less than the difference in price, but how much of that additional spend do you get back, and how much better in reality would the modified car be against the factory developed machine ? That would always be the nagging question of taking this route for me, but I realise that many others see this as the perfect route and opportunity to get their car to their taste and liking.
Does this look a familiar approach to add lightness (from Evo Magazine) ?
The Club Sport came along a year after and took all the best bits and combined them into a superbly balanced and unexpectedly satisfying whole, but there was also less to it than that. Deleted items included the rear seats, air conditioning, rear wiper, electronic tailgate release and a chunk of sound deadening, while the electric windows became wind-up and the standard, electrically adjusted Recaros were replaced by lightweight, fixed-back Recaro buckets. The total weight saving was an impressive 50kg, providing, of course, that the customer went for this pauper spec.
When you throw a 911 into the mix, then the question for me is about having the most focused 987.2 in the range versus having a less focused 911. If I wanted the 911refinement then that's where my money would have gone, but the type of car I wanted and the type of driving I wanted it for were not really where the 911 was in terms of the models available at the same price point at he time.
You can take a Cayman S (or 911) and modify it to your tastes and probably do so for less than the difference in price, but how much of that additional spend do you get back, and how much better in reality would the modified car be against the factory developed machine ? That would always be the nagging question of taking this route for me, but I realise that many others see this as the perfect route and opportunity to get their car to their taste and liking.
frayz said:
Personally ive given up with buying a car for financial investment. Buy it knowing youre going to lose money, then if you get any other outcome, you've had a result.
The only investment any car should be purchased for, is the investment in ones driving enjoyment.
I think that ship has definitely sailed.The only investment any car should be purchased for, is the investment in ones driving enjoyment.
Profits from car sales don't attract capital gains tax and that fact hasn't been lost of people the last few years during the era of cheap money and no return on cash deposits.
moonigan said:
Buy that car for £47K and you better keep it for the rest of your life or when you come to sell it hope that there is another person willing to pay top money for it privately. Trade bid on that car to buy would be around £33-35K so private sale would be £37-39K if you are patient. Most buyers want a Porsche warranty so that's another £2K. A 997.2 is a fairly safe place to put your money but this needs to be 3-4K cheaper.
I think that's a little low re trade price for a low mile 3.8 Gen II 997 with good spec.I recently traded my 997.2 (3.6 39k miles, PSE, PASM, 19" wheels, high spec) for £35k against my new (to me) 17k miles Cayman R with 2 1/2 yrs OPC Warranty.
Compared to the 997.2, the R is way more focused and as said above a completely different driving experience.
After 5 x 911's of vastly differing characters, I can't believe how I missed the R previously. It's a little hidden gem of a car, at £45k not much can touch it for a road drivers car.
For me, it's just about perfect.
moonigan said:
My car was a lot harder to sell than I had expected. It had the right spec, late model, OPC warranty, low miles, perfect history and it took 3 months to sell in summer when it could be driven and when it sold it was the cheapest car 997.2 on PH, Autotrader and E-Bay. Plenty of trade enquiries but they all offered low ball bids. OPC wanted a £10+K spread. They would have listed it a £42K.
The buyer had it inspected and was told it was the best condition car they had seen in a very long time.Whilst not an unpleasant experience it has put me off selling anything around this value privately because the market is very small and I suspect the market for the R is smaller still.
Prior to buying the 997.2 a couple of years ago I looked long and hard at Cayman R and decided they were not worth the premium over a similar aged 997.2 and my feelings haven't changed. Its a beautiful looking car but I don't think it represents value at £40K+.
But the car you had was not an S, and thus right or wrong not really sort after that much.The buyer had it inspected and was told it was the best condition car they had seen in a very long time.Whilst not an unpleasant experience it has put me off selling anything around this value privately because the market is very small and I suspect the market for the R is smaller still.
Prior to buying the 997.2 a couple of years ago I looked long and hard at Cayman R and decided they were not worth the premium over a similar aged 997.2 and my feelings haven't changed. Its a beautiful looking car but I don't think it represents value at £40K+.
997.2 S manuals sub 30k miles with spec are rare-as hens teeth, rarer that trying to buy a R. Hence the high prices.
A sweet spot in 2010 these 2 cars.
R are always worth the cost, as they have not moved in price and have a cult following and out the box, pretty much one of the best drivers cars you can buy.
I would have another no issue, but fancy a project car.
I read in early post that the white JZM car has a Carnewal exhaust.
What's the verdict on them. Whenever I listen to aftermarket Cayman exhaust videos they seem to make the car have more low end rumble/bark. Not sure that's the 'classic' sound I associate with a Porsche flat 6. Hopefully I can have a listen to one in person soon.
What's the verdict on them. Whenever I listen to aftermarket Cayman exhaust videos they seem to make the car have more low end rumble/bark. Not sure that's the 'classic' sound I associate with a Porsche flat 6. Hopefully I can have a listen to one in person soon.
Budflicker said:
Money smoney....
One day i will be dead and i certainly won't think on my death bed " oh, i wish my Cayman R didn't depreciate so much"
I will however remember my driving tours in a bright Viper Green Cayman R for ever though. Life is not a rehearsal,!
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