Cayman R Chat

Author
Discussion

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
swanny71 said:
Life would be very dull if we all liked the same things. So it's fortunate we all have the ability to choose different toys !!

swanny71

2,849 posts

208 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Life would be very dull if we all liked the same things. So it's fortunate we all have the ability to choose different toys !!
Exactly !!

MrVert

4,394 posts

238 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
For me, the only other option at the time was an Exige S at the same price point, but that would require a different level of commitment and I wouldn't have got the same use out of one as I did the R.

Also have an S1 Elise, so two Loti in the garage would have been too similar for me.

A 997 3.6 with PASM (or new suspension) and PSE would be a good alternative, but they're not as sharp to drive as the R. Speaking from experience as that was what I changed from into the R. Great car though.

Vincent-Vega

231 posts

22 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Certainly some nice cars on that list and good value as well, however i owned a well sorted 996 alongside my Cayman R for a couple of years and although it was a 911 and it did drive and sound great it couldn't hold a candle to the Cayman R, in fact on a tight and twisty alpine pass it wouldn't see which way the R went.

I'm no driving god but on a recent euro tour with some much more expensive metal there wasn't anything getting away from me through the twisty stuff, even on the straights when they pulled a gap I soon out braked them into the hairpins and was then straight back on them. I'm talking 991.2GT3, 600LT, 718 GT4, 718 Spyder, M2's,996 GT3, all stuff that's lots more money than an R.

Special little car the Cayman R.


Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Vincent-Vega said:
Certainly some nice cars on that list and good value as well, however i owned a well sorted 996 alongside my Cayman R for a couple of years and although it was a 911 and it did drive and sound great it couldn't hold a candle to the Cayman R, in fact on a tight and twisty alpine pass it wouldn't see which way the R went.

I'm no driving god but on a recent euro tour with some much more expensive metal there wasn't anything getting away from me through the twisty stuff, even on the straights when they pulled a gap I soon out braked them into the hairpins and was then straight back on them. I'm talking 991.2GT3, 600LT, 718 GT4, 718 Spyder, M2's,996 GT3, all stuff that's lots more money than an R.

Special little car the Cayman R.
I know smile

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

From the thread I've linked to above :

Dippy Spliff said:
The geo adjustment was required as the car displayed some handling deficiencies under duress a couple of weeks ago (the "duress" was by way of a spririted Saturday morning drive with a 430 Scuderia, a 991 GTS PDK, a 3.9 450hp engined Mk1 996 GT3 and a Gen 1 997 GT3).
The plucky little Cayman, even with shonky brakes and wonky geo wasn't disgraced by ANY of the above around the twisties, though it did lose out when it came to taking advantage of snap overtaking opportunities. But otherwise it shone even in such exhalted company.

But, and it's a big but, pure, outright speed isn't THE only metric, and as I found out, it certainly wasn't mine.

Personally I'd trade a large chunk of pace for something that's far more tactile and engaging, and requires some weight management to extract performance from, rather than relying on Porsche's staggeringly good mid-engined chassis dynamics.

Put eloquently (not my words you understand) :

"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.

Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.

It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.

It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"

I grant you the Cayman R is indeed special, but as others have said in this very thread, it's not that special apart from it's outright speed and it's handling (both of which will be enough, and clearly are for many owners) alas not for me.
In the final analysis it's effectively a warmed over Cayman S, with some token weight reductions, which most owners eschewed in favour of ensuring some daily driving comfort. Ergo it's a slick consumer product, rather than a descendant of something special produced by the Motorsport department.

But let's put it another less eloquent way :

Sometimes something has to be a bit sh!t to make it "good".
The 911's chassis could be considered "a bit sh!t", but I love the dynamics along with all the many and varied handling foibles, be they those of the 964, 993, 996 or 997 (though by the time the latter was launched, Porsche were well down the road to engineering the 911's handling "traits" out altogether for road use) and for me peeling back the layers of onion to find and unlock the 911's chassis potential is far more rewarding than the experience the plug and play Cayman's chassis provides out of the box.






























Retreats to a darkened corner having lit the the blue touch paperhehe






frayz

2,629 posts

158 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Vincent-Vega said:
Certainly some nice cars on that list and good value as well, however i owned a well sorted 996 alongside my Cayman R for a couple of years and although it was a 911 and it did drive and sound great it couldn't hold a candle to the Cayman R, in fact on a tight and twisty alpine pass it wouldn't see which way the R went.

I'm no driving god but on a recent euro tour with some much more expensive metal there wasn't anything getting away from me through the twisty stuff, even on the straights when they pulled a gap I soon out braked them into the hairpins and was then straight back on them. I'm talking 991.2GT3, 600LT, 718 GT4, 718 Spyder, M2's,996 GT3, all stuff that's lots more money than an R.

Special little car the Cayman R.
I know smile

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

From the thread I've linked to above :

Dippy Spliff said:
The geo adjustment was required as the car displayed some handling deficiencies under duress a couple of weeks ago (the "duress" was by way of a spririted Saturday morning drive with a 430 Scuderia, a 991 GTS PDK, a 3.9 450hp engined Mk1 996 GT3 and a Gen 1 997 GT3).
The plucky little Cayman, even with shonky brakes and wonky geo wasn't disgraced by ANY of the above around the twisties, though it did lose out when it came to taking advantage of snap overtaking opportunities. But otherwise it shone even in such exhalted company.

But, and it's a big but, pure, outright speed isn't THE only metric, and as I found out, it certainly wasn't mine.

Personally I'd trade a large chunk of pace for something that's far more tactile and engaging, and requires some weight management to extract performance from, rather than relying on Porsche's staggeringly good mid-engined chassis dynamics.

Put eloquently (not my words you understand) :

"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.

Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.

It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.

It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"

I grant you the Cayman R is indeed special, but as others have said in this very thread, it's not that special apart from it's outright speed and it's handling (both of which will be enough, and clearly are for many owners) alas not for me.
In the final analysis it's effectively a warmed over Cayman S, with some token weight reductions, which most owners eschewed in favour of ensuring some daily driving comfort. Ergo it's a slick consumer product, rather than a descendant of something special produced by the Motorsport department.

But let's put it another less eloquent way :

Sometimes something has to be a bit sh!t to make it "good".
The 911's chassis could be considered "a bit sh!t", but I love the dynamics along with all the many and varied handling foibles, be they those of the 964, 993, 996 or 997 (though by the time the latter was launched, Porsche were well down the road to engineering the 911's handling "traits" out altogether for road use) and for me peeling back the layers of onion to find and unlock the 911's chassis potential is far more rewarding than the experience the plug and play Cayman's chassis provides out of the box.






























Retreats to a darkened corner having lit the the blue touch paperhehe
No need to run at all mate. Very valid point and totally see where you’re coming from. I think the R is far from the be all and end all of driving machines. It special but only to us owners, to any other bod its just another poor man’s 911.
I think in most cases though, it ticks a heap of boxes and punches way above its weight in a lot of situations.

As you know I’m always banging on waxing lyrical about my 17 year old French stbox Clio. I genuinely love driving it as much as my Cayman R. It’s old, French, not fast and a very crap by modern standards. Yet it offers a driving experience I absolutely adore.

As long as you go in with your eyes open for what it is and are happy with your car for the money you’ve spent, fair play to you.

As for all this £100k crap, lol, who cares.
Fuel will be £15 per litre before that happens and none of us will be able to afford anything more powerful than a petrol strimmer. So drink up boys, enjoy driving them whilst you can, the clock is ticking.


Edited by frayz on Monday 11th July 18:50


Edited by frayz on Monday 11th July 21:32

ChrisW.

6,210 posts

254 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
ATM said:
But all Gen1 engines.

Nobody is getting fat out of repairing Gen2 engines ... Hartec have built a business out of repairing Gen1 ...

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
frayz said:
No need to run at all mate. Very valid point and totally wee where you’re coming from. I think the R is far from the be all and end all of driving machines. It special but only to us owners, to any other bid its just another poor man’s 911.
I think in most cases though, it ticks a heap of boxes and punches way above its weight in a lot of situations.

As you know I’m always banging on waxing lyrical about my 17 year old French stbox Clio. I genuinely love driving it as much as my Cayman R. It’s old, French, not fast and a very crap by modern standards. Yet it offers a driving experience I absolutely adore.

As long as you go in with your eyes open for what it is and are happy with your car for the money you’ve spent, fair play to you.

As for all this £100k crap, lol, who cares.
Fuel will be £15 per litre before that happens and none of us will be able to afford anything more powerful than a petrol strimmer. So drink up boys, enjoy driving them whilst you can, the clock is ticking.
Evening F, hope you’re well ?
When Le Regie do hot hatches, they do them right (apart from the seating position ) biggrin

Not sure how or why they’re so good at judging spring and damper rates, nor how they can make a front wheel drive car steer and turn in so sweetly, but they do seem to be the masters at blending handling with compliancy in a manner that few others can (Alpina being one of the few that spring to mind).

My daily derv burner was stolen off the drive three weeks ago last night, and I’ve got a Kia Picanto 3 pot, 1 litre loan car as my daily.

Truth be known, I’d forgotten just how much fun going fast in a slow car is ...

The seats are hopeless, and the steering weighs up too much, so your cornering speed is limited by how well you can brace yourself whilst holding onto the steering wheel for grim death hehe but overall it’s an amusing experience, and the 3 pot motor revs considerably more freely after a 95 Klepton spanking up the motorway on Saturday night biggrin

Talk of any modern McLaren, Ferrari, and dare I say modern 911s leaves me cold, I wouldn’t entertain trying to even scratch their limits on the public highway these days. The idea of using a 720S or a 488 on the public road seems a pretty pointless and frustrating concept if I’m really honest.



ajondyh

679 posts

123 months

MrVert

4,394 posts

238 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
I know what you mean..we have a little Seat Mii 3 door (the coupe version smile ) with the 1.0l triple cyl engine that our teenagers have learnt to drive in.

It’s great fun to extract speed out of & despite some rather excessive roll, I really enjoy spanking it along the lanes. Small, light, revvy and chuckable. Just like cars used to be. Seriously tempted to get an Up GTI now!

50mpg adds to the appeal somewhat I’ll freely admit biggrin

Vincent-Vega

231 posts

22 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all






Slippydiff said:
The plucky little Cayman, even with shonky brakes and wonky geo wasn't disgraced by ANY of the above around the twisties, though it did lose out when it came to taking advantage of snap overtaking opportunities. But otherwise it shone even in such exhalted company.

But, and it's a big but, pure, outright speed isn't THE only metric, and as I found out, it certainly wasn't mine.

Personally I'd trade a large chunk of pace for something that's far more tactile and engaging, and requires some weight management to extract performance from, rather than relying on Porsche's staggeringly good mid-engined chassis dynamics.

Put eloquently (not my words you understand) :

"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.

Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.

It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.

It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"

I grant you the Cayman R is indeed special, but as others have said in this very thread, it's not that special apart from it's outright speed and it's handling (both of which will be enough, and clearly are for many owners) alas not for me.
In the final analysis it's effectively a warmed over Cayman S, with some token weight reductions, which most owners eschewed in favour of ensuring some daily driving comfort. Ergo it's a slick consumer product, rather than a descendant of something special produced by the Motorsport department.

But let's put it another less eloquent way :

Sometimes something has to be a bit sh!t to make it "good".
The 911's chassis could be considered "a bit sh!t", but I love the dynamics along with all the many and varied handling foibles, be they those of the 964, 993, 996 or 997 (though by the time the latter was launched, Porsche were well down the road to engineering the 911's handling "traits" out altogether for road use) and for me peeling back the layers of onion to find and unlock the 911's chassis potential is far more rewarding than the experience the plug and play Cayman's chassis provides out of the box.






























Retreats to a darkened corner having lit the the blue touch paperhehe



The romanticism of the foibles of the proper Porsche 911 leaves me imagining you in your old 911 something like the above. smile


With regards drawing a comparison with a 911 for feel and tactility I belive the last part you quoted was probably describing something air-cooled, maybe a 964? Not a 996. It's certainly true that a 964 or earlier air-cooled stuff will indeed meet that description but dear God do you pay a premium for it.

A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions wink will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.

I understand they only made about 1600 of them and the market dictates the price, but they only made 1421 Cayman R's, so maybe with inflation at 9% Julian isn't as crazy as he sounds. Well maybe he is in general but on this one who knows.


Personally I see them maxing out at 75k. I reckon at some point there will be parity with a 981 GT4.




julian987R

6,745 posts

58 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Vincent-Vega said:



The romanticism of the foibles of the proper Porsche 911 leaves me imagining you in your old 911 something like the above. smile


With regards drawing a comparison with a 911 for feel and tactility I belive the last part you quoted was probably describing something air-cooled, maybe a 964? Not a 996. It's certainly true that a 964 or earlier air-cooled stuff will indeed meet that description but dear God do you pay a premium for it.

A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions wink will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.

I understand they only made about 1600 of them and the market dictates the price, but they only made 1421 Cayman R's, so maybe with inflation at 9% Julian isn't as crazy as he sounds. Well maybe he is in general but on this one who knows.


Personally I see them maxing out at 75k. I reckon at some point there will be parity with a 981 GT4.
Thanks for agreeing with me/seeing my optimism perhaps isn’t too cuckoo land.




Andyoz

2,887 posts

53 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
frayz said:
No need to run at all mate. Very valid point and totally wee where you’re coming from. I think the R is far from the be all and end all of driving machines. It special but only to us owners, to any other bid its just another poor man’s 911.
I think in most cases though, it ticks a heap of boxes and punches way above its weight in a lot of situations.

As you know I’m always banging on waxing lyrical about my 17 year old French stbox Clio. I genuinely love driving it as much as my Cayman R. It’s old, French, not fast and a very crap by modern standards. Yet it offers a driving experience I absolutely adore.

As long as you go in with your eyes open for what it is and are happy with your car for the money you’ve spent, fair play to you.

As for all this £100k crap, lol, who cares.
Fuel will be £15 per litre before that happens and none of us will be able to afford anything more powerful than a petrol strimmer. So drink up boys, enjoy driving them whilst you can, the clock is ticking.
Evening F, hope you’re well ?
When Le Regie do hot hatches, they do them right (apart from the seating position ) biggrin

Not sure how or why they’re so good at judging spring and damper rates, nor how they can make a front wheel drive car steer and turn in so sweetly, but they do seem to be the masters at blending handling with compliancy in a manner that few others can (Alpina being one of the few that spring to mind).

My daily derv burner was stolen off the drive three weeks ago last night, and I’ve got a Kia Picanto 3 pot, 1 litre loan car as my daily.

Truth be known, I’d forgotten just how much fun going fast in a slow car is ...

The seats are hopeless, and the steering weighs up too much, so your cornering speed is limited by how well you can brace yourself whilst holding onto the steering wheel for grim death hehe but overall it’s an amusing experience, and the 3 pot motor revs considerably more freely after a 95 Klepton spanking up the motorway on Saturday night biggrin

Talk of any modern McLaren, Ferrari, and dare I say modern 911s leaves me cold, I wouldn’t entertain trying to even scratch their limits on the public highway these days. The idea of using a 720S or a 488 on the public road seems a pretty pointless and frustrating concept if I’m really honest.
I went to our local tracks Sprint meet to see my mates new modded Exige.

Watching lads hammering around in various FWD yokes had me looking at Suzuki Swift Sports etc the last few days. This 106 was getting the snot revved out of it in particular and was setting some solid times.


frayz

2,629 posts

158 months

Monday 11th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippy;

Oh mate I’m so sorry to hear of the agro of having a car nicked. Not what you want at all.

I totally get what you mean about hacking about in a slow car and driving the absolute doorhandles off it. (Where the situation safely allows obviously). Great fun and allows you to play with a cars dynamic limits at sane speeds.

I totally understand what you mean about attempting to operate a modern super/hypercar on the public highway.
Still to this day my Clio has got me in the most trouble with her majesty's police of all the cars I’ve owned. That’s with a measly 180hp. I owned a near 600hp Impreza for 14 years alongside the Clio. Ha.

Operating a Cayman R on the road anywhere near its limits will mean you’re traveling at a frightening rate of knots too.
I think the fact the Cayman still feels quite rewarding at sensible speeds for what it is, gives it a lot of appeal. However get one on track and really start to explore its limits and you realise just how wonderful an R is to drive.

Cars by default have just become so incredibly capable these days that the envelope of excitement is getting smaller. The opportunities to feel the chassis talking to the driver are getting fewer and fewer. Almost any modern hot hatch will run rings around a 10 year old bonafide performance car. So any of the modern super metal has an performance envelope that is so far up the ladder, they just bend your mind.

I think that’s where the R shines. It’s right on the edge of what’s enjoyable and useable on the public road and offers quite a unique experience for that matter. What it does highlight is how good just a standard Cayman is of any flavour… the R offers just that dash of exclusivity and specialness that take it one notch further.
Luckily for us, it does all that at a price most of us can stretch to.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Tuesday 12th July 2022
quotequote all
MrVert said:
I know what you mean..we have a little Seat Mii 3 door (the coupe version smile ) with the 1.0l triple cyl engine that our teenagers have learnt to drive in.

It’s great fun to extract speed out of & despite some rather excessive roll, I really enjoy spanking it along the lanes. Small, light, revvy and chuckable. Just like cars used to be. Seriously tempted to get an Up GTI now!

50mpg adds to the appeal somewhat I’ll freely admit biggrin
Lupo GTi (if you can find a nice example that hasn’t been modified) or an Up GTi, would both make a fun addition to the fleet, and as you’ve said, with fuel prices where they currently are, their parsimony is just another useful benefit in addition to the fun factor of driving something that relies on momentum to extract speed from smile

ATM

18,092 posts

218 months

Tuesday 12th July 2022
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Lupo GTi (if you can find a nice example that hasn’t been modified)
SSSssssshhhh


Stop telling everyone


I'm currently on the lookout for One

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Tuesday 12th July 2022
quotequote all
frayz said:
Slippy;

Oh mate I’m so sorry to hear of the agro of having a car nicked. Not what you want at all.

I totally get what you mean about hacking about in a slow car and driving the absolute doorhandles off it. (Where the situation safely allows obviously). Great fun and allows you to play with a cars dynamic limits at sane speeds.

I totally understand what you mean about attempting to operate a modern super/hypercar on the public highway.
Still to this day my Clio has got me in the most trouble with her majesty's police of all the cars I’ve owned. That’s with a measly 180hp. I owned a near 600hp Impreza for 14 years alongside the Clio. Ha.

Operating a Cayman R on the road anywhere near its limits will mean you’re traveling at a frightening rate of knots too.
I think the fact the Cayman still feels quite rewarding at sensible speeds for what it is, gives it a lot of appeal. However get one on track and really start to explore its limits and you realise just how wonderful an R is to drive.

Cars by default have just become so incredibly capable these days that the envelope of excitement is getting smaller. The opportunities to feel the chassis talking to the driver are getting fewer and fewer. Almost any modern hot hatch will run rings around a 10 year old bonafide performance car. So any of the modern super metal has an performance envelope that is so far up the ladder, they just bend your mind.

I think that’s where the R shines. It’s right on the edge of what’s enjoyable and useable on the public road and offers quite a unique experience for that matter. What it does highlight is how good just a standard Cayman is of any flavour… the R offers just that dash of exclusivity and specialness that take it one notch further.
Luckily for us, it does all that at a price most of us can stretch to.
Great post !!

Thanks for the kind words, the theft has proved to be a real PITA and somewhat unsettling as they sneaked into the kitchen through the open patio doors and took the keys whilst I was on the phone in the lounge next door ...

The R is an excellent package, but for me, it was too polished and accomplished, and thus basically too easy to extract speed from on the road, and just as you've alluded to that meant I frequently found myself doing 110-115 Leptons on our A roads to make it "come alive". That was back in 2017. I'll be 59 this year and I've absolutely no wish or inclination to be driving around the wilds of central/North Wales at those speeds these days, let alone on any of the roads on my doorstep.

We were made society's outcasts by the anti speeding lobby 20-30 years ago, now the Green lobby have convinced our gullible/corruptible politicians that we're rapidly killing the planet, and in the process made us and the motor manufacturers into society's greatest pariahs, and now it seems that being caught speeding (especially at those speeds) is only one small step from murder in the eyes of the judiciary.

I'd much rather be caught wringing the neck of a 1 litre, 3 pot hatch at 75mph in a 60 zone than a 6-800hp super/hypercar at well over 100mph on the same road, and we both know that's easily achievable in the blink of an eyelid in a modern supercar.

As ATM has found out and documented on these very pages, smaller diameter/narrower tyres on a 20 year old Porsche, be that a 996 or a 986/7 makes for a fun and compelling package, and means decent slip angles can be "generated" biggrin at much lower speeds, with the added bonus that the combination of smaller wheels and larger sidewalls make for a better ride on our now all but abandoned (from a maintenance perspective) roads.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Tuesday 12th July 2022
quotequote all
ATM said:
SSSssssshhhh


Stop telling everyone


I'm currently on the lookout for One
Quite.

Awful things, I'd avoid at all costs wink

biggrin