718 review - test drove today

[bcr5784]

ORD said:

I disagree. PDK is always dim-witted compared to anyone with any skill using the paddles. You can give it clues as to what you want with the throttle, but that is pretty crude. Just choose the gear you want directly! It is a key part of driving. Leaving it to something with the intelligence of smart phone application is pretty strange.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I personally use manual when driving for pleasure - but PDK is adaptive as I have said. Are suggesting it has a fixed algorithm which takes no account of driver behaviour?

[bcr5784]

bcr5784 said:

ORD said:

I disagree. PDK is always dim-witted compared to anyone with any skill using the paddles. You can give it clues as to what you want with the throttle, but that is pretty crude. Just choose the gear you want directly! It is a key part of driving. Leaving it to something with the intelligence of smart phone application is pretty strange.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I personally use manual when driving for pleasure, though as I also say you can do things in PDK (manual mode) that you can't with a manual gearbox. But, I repeat, PDK is adaptive in its auto modes. Are suggesting it has a fixed algorithm which takes no account of driver behaviour?

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 5th April 17:33

[ORD]

bcr5784 said:

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I personally use manual when driving for pleasure - but PDK is adaptive as I have said. Are suggesting it has a fixed algorithm which takes no account of driver behaviour?

Not fixed. But crude. Vastly less intelligent than even a fairly clueless driver.

[bcr5784]

ORD said:

Not fixed. But crude. Vastly less intelligent than even a fairly clueless driver.

Ok - but that isn't opposite to what previous contributors were suggesting - quite the contrary. "Vastly less intelligent than even a fairly clueless driver" just might be an exaggeration.... Haven't I told you a million times not to exaggerate?!!!

[Mario149]

ORD said:

bcr5784 said:

Agree with pretty much all of that. However I would add that the change algorithm isn't fixed. If you are in Normal (auto) and use override (which you really need to )quite a lot the box adopts a more sporty algorithm. I can't be sure of the exact combination of circumstances (whether more aggressive cornering or braking is required) - but even in Normal it can switch to something similar to Sport for a while.

You touch on what I think is a very important point too. You can, of course, drive PDK in manual as you would a manual car. However that isn't getting the best out of it. Because gearchanges are so fast and smooth, and you don't have to take your hands off the wheel, you have opportunities to change gear which you wouldn't have with a manual. I find learning to "get the best our of PDK" as you put it is rewarding.

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 5th April 14:48

Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 5th April 15:48

I disagree. PDK is always dim-witted compared to anyone with any skill using the paddles. You can give it clues as to what you want with the throttle, but that is pretty crude. Just choose the gear you want directly! It is a key part of driving. Leaving it to something with the intelligence of smart phone application is pretty strange.

On the road I'd agree with that, but on track in my BGTS, I did laps with Sport+ in auto and in manual, and when I left the car to do it, I'm 90% sure I was quicker (not that it matters, using the paddles was more fun). If the PDK gear change was slow like when doing it manually, I think you could do it faster stirring the box yourself as sometimes you want to take an early gear so you don't have to change up while still exiting the corner (I'm thinking of my last outing in my old 7.1 GT3 at Brands in my head as an example, where I'd shift early to 3rd on the approach to Graham Hill bend), but because PDK is such a blindingly quick change, you can bang the next cog in mid corner and there's no issue at all, so leaving the computer to do it when you hit max revs it always going to be slightly quicker I reckon.

[HighwayStar]

My 981 CS was in for it's MOT earlier in the week... Passed with a few advisories, nowt serious. I had mentioned in a thread that the OPC would be giving me a 718 for the day and someone asked that I give my thoughts on the car, I can't find that thread so I'm leaving it here.
I had the use of a Boxster S, PDK, PSE, SC, red, black hood, 20" Carrera Sports..... pretty much loaded. The car looked great, I can appreciate the looks though I'm not actually a convertible fan... just not my thing. Anyway all very nice inside, just a little better than the 981 but familiar. The PCM is definitely better but not a big deal in my world.
So driving, the steering felt really light, too light. Power steering plus maybe? Apart from that it felt really good on the back roads, just that little bit sharper getting into the corner but... The F4. On start up it just didn't sound right but I didn't dwell on it, thinking I'd give it a chance before passing judgement. Onto the A12, opened it up a bit and things weren't getting any better. Got onto some back roads, had a play with it in manual/sport and yes it got going but I found I just wasn't enjoying the experience. Or the noise. Nudging out of a dodgy T junction, decided I'm good to go I encountered lag. Memories of my TTS.
It's not for me. Yes, if I had it I could learn the car, how to get the best from it but I wouldn't want to. It definitely has it's plus points. I can see more torque available low down makes progress easier but it's not how I want to go about getting my driving jollies. It doesn't give me what I get from the F6.
Getting back in my car I didn't miss the 718 at all. It wouldn't have made any difference if it was a 718 Cayman. This is all my personal view, not about the 718 being a bad car or the 981 better. Just preference. .

[dreamcar]

Top Gear last night featured Porschephile Chris Harris testing the 718 Cayman S. He really loved the performance, handling and the myriad other subtle but worthwhile improvements over the outgoing F6 Cayman S. BUT for him, like many of us the entire experience was ruined by the new turbo flat four engine. He felt that the way the engine drives and sounds is critical to the enjoyment of a sports car. The engine to him was uninspiring and soulless. Thumbs down from him for the 718 compared with the old F6. But having said all that and in spite of, rather than because of the new engine, it's still by far the best circa £50k sports car out there.

Edited by dreamcar on Monday 24th April 07:07

[Tim bo]

dreamcar said:

Top Gear last night featured Porschephile Chris Harris testing the 718 Cayman S. He really loved the performance, handling and the myriad other subtle but worthwhile improvements over the outgoing F6 Cayman S. BUT for him, like many of us the entire experience was ruined by the new turbo flat four engine. He felt that the way the engine drives and sounds is critical to the enjoyment of a sports car. The engine to him was uninspiring and soulless. Thumbs down from him for the 718 compared with the old F6. But having said all that and in spite of, rather than because of the new engine, it's still by far the best £50k sports car out there.

To be fair to Harris, the above is not completely correct.

He did not state that the way the engine drives is critical to the enjoyment of the car, his criticism here was only about the sound. He stated that he was impressed with the engine and the way it drives, the 345 hp and the amount of torque, which he said were a better match for the excellent mid-engine chassis than the NA6 of the 981, which he said he always felt wasn't quite powerful enough to take the chassis to its limits.

Edited by Tim bo on Monday 24th April 07:21

[Twinfan]

The fact that he thinks the 718 is still the best option, but only by default, is really very telling.

[bcr5784]

Twinfan said:

The fact that he thinks the 718 is still the best option, but only by default, is really very telling.

Absolutely - it means that if someone can produce a decent alternative, they could do rather well. The Alpine is an obvious possibility if its engine has wider appeal than the 718 (though brand recognition will count against it for all but the french), or just possibly the upcoming Z5.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 24th April 11:21

[BubblesNW]

I watched Extra Gear where they drove the TTRS and chatted about the 718. Conclusion was that the 718 would be better with the Audi engine but Chris Harris would choose a Cayman GTS over all of them with his own £50k.

As he also suggested the best car you can buy for less than £100k is the GT4 we can assume he's a flat 6 Cayman fan.

[Twinfan]

BubblesNW said:

I watched Extra Gear where they drove the TTRS and chatted about the 718. Conclusion was that the 718 would be better with the Audi engine but Chris Harris would choose a Cayman GTS over all of them with his own £50k.

Good choice Chris

Link here, skip to 15 minutes in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04xkgdh/top-...

[Cheib]

BubblesNW said:

I watched Extra Gear where they drove the TTRS and chatted about the 718. Conclusion was that the 718 would be better with the Audi engine but Chris Harris would choose a Cayman GTS over all of them with his own £50k.

As he also suggested the best car you can buy for less than £100k is the GT4 we can assume he's a flat 6 Cayman fan.

Bit of a nothing point about putting a more powerful engine in the "S".. that'll be the GTS presumably/possibly ? Or, of course, the GT$ when that's replaced.

[ORD]

Cheib said:

Bit of a nothing point about putting a more powerful engine in the "S".. that'll be the GTS presumably/possibly ? Or, of course, the GT$ when that's replaced.

The Audi engine is vastly better, apparently, rather than just more powerful. No surprise, really, given that is has more cylinders.

[edo]

does it fit though?

[bcr5784]

edo said:

does it fit though?

Not without a lot of re-engineering of the cars structure. Almost certainly a non-starter, except as a complete replacement model - certainly not a 718.2

[HighwayStar]

ORD said:

Cheib said:

Bit of a nothing point about putting a more powerful engine in the "S".. that'll be the GTS presumably/possibly ? Or, of course, the GT$ when that's replaced.

The Audi engine is vastly better, apparently, rather than just more powerful. No surprise, really, given that is has more cylinders.

Taller and longer that the F6 too... Would raise the CoG a fair bit no doubt

[ORD]

HighwayStar said:

Taller and longer that the F6 too... Would raise the CoG a fair bit no doubt

Sure - not saying it would fit or even necessarily suit the car; just that it is a better engine.

[edo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

fair points well made. I think there is an element of keeping distance to the 911 too.

[ORD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I disagree. I think emissions were part of the picture, along with the factors you mention.

I think Porsche had to show willing in terms of reducing emissions. It is a game between VAG and the EU - if the big players dont make it look like they are trying to reduce emissions, the regulations will be harsher next time. The big manufacturers have to say "We are cutting down hard where we can, but please let us keep proper engines in our premium cars".

Gutting the Cayman / Boxster allowed Porsche to retain 6 cylinder engines in the 911. They can say that they downsized the engines where they could but that 6 cylinders are an essential part of the 911 brand. Not quite true, but emissions stuff is all about appearances and ticking boxes.