718 review - test drove today
Discussion
edo said:
I think there is an element of keeping distance to the 911 too.
I think that is far and away the dominant reason. Emissions are a smoke-screen, though a rather convenient one for Porsche to use.In any case emission regs are undergoing revision, in significant part because turbo petrol engines - particularly heavily boosted ones - rarely perform as economically in normal use as their government economy figures might suggest. VAG are, for example repacing their 1.4 150bhp turbo with 1.5 of the same torque and power. I frankly doubt that the flat 6 will be reintroduced, more likely the 2litre will get the 2.5 engine with less boost - and might well be nicer for it.
anonymous said:
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It is all speculation either way. My guess is that enough people at Porsche wanted to retain the flat 6 that they must have been pressured by VAG to drop it, but you may be right that it was just about getting numbers for group tests.(Although anyone that reads car magazines surely would prefer the NA engine....)
bcr5784 said:
edo said:
I think there is an element of keeping distance to the 911 too.
I think that is far and away the dominant reason. Emissions are a smoke-screen, though a rather convenient one for Porsche to use.In any case emission regs are undergoing revision, in significant part because turbo petrol engines - particularly heavily boosted ones - rarely perform as economically in normal use as their government economy figures might suggest. VAG are, for example repacing their 1.4 150bhp turbo with 1.5 of the same torque and power. I frankly doubt that the flat 6 will be reintroduced, more likely the 2litre will get the 2.5 engine with less boost - and might well be nicer for it.
http://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/co2-emissions-...
Whether they are measured as part of the VW group or on a stand alone basis I don't know. I suspect it's also a progression towards hybrid tech....with hybrid's normally featuring a lower capacity petrol engine as part of the package.
Cheib said:
There 100% has to be differentiation between 911 and Cayman/Boxster but emissions/fuel consumption are something that all manufacturers have to think about these days. They get measured as an average across all cars they produce
http://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/co2-emissions-...
Whether they are measured as part of the VW group or on a stand alone basis I don't know. I suspect it's also a progression towards hybrid tech....with hybrid's normally featuring a lower capacity petrol engine as part of the package.
I was wondering how it was averaged. I remember Aston Martin's ridiculous Cygnet as their attempt to lower overall emissions. I guess at least Porsche didn't go that route. http://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/co2-emissions-...
Whether they are measured as part of the VW group or on a stand alone basis I don't know. I suspect it's also a progression towards hybrid tech....with hybrid's normally featuring a lower capacity petrol engine as part of the package.
Given that the 911 has been down sized and blown, it suggests to me that emissions are a driving part of the decision. I'd also give the same credence to putting more of a division between 718 and 911.
anonymous said:
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Assuming this is correct, how does one ascertain what customer demand is for in terms of engines and/or whether they'll sell? Do they focus group this stuff? I wonder if it might even be simpler - for emissions/performance/whatever, they decided to go with the F6T in the 911 range as that's the money maker, then when it became clear they couldn't get the F6T lump to fit in the 981 chassis which was probably being designed (along with the 991 chassis) 10 years ago before all this turbo nonsense really kicked off, they figured it was cheaper to lop 2 cylinders off than maintain NA and turbo engine lines. And presumably it would have been cheaper to have just squeezed the F6T engine into the Caysters if they could have
Mario149 said:
Assuming this is correct, how does one ascertain what customer demand is for in terms of engines and/or whether they'll sell? Do they focus group this stuff?
I have no doubt they have focus groups and I'd be astonished if they weren't aware (and prepared to accept) the predictable antipathy of some (probably many). I doubt they (the marketing dept) were expecting quite the degree of opposition they have met.Will that promote a design change? Probably only sales figures and (to a lesser extent) feedback from OPCs will determine that. I do think that the impact of the Alpine on Cayman sales projections and the forthcoming z5 on, mostly, Boxsters, will feed into Porsche actions.
Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 24th April 19:53
J.M.T said:
Test drove one today at Solihull and got my order in.
Don't get me wrong it don't sound like the old one but I didn't think it was a terrible noise and in every other way is a better car than the old one.
I now need to show some restraint on my options
Based on this forum didn't you mean "I now need to show some restraint on my opinions"Don't get me wrong it don't sound like the old one but I didn't think it was a terrible noise and in every other way is a better car than the old one.
I now need to show some restraint on my options
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As I said Cayenne and Macan are only viable because of the platform sharing, certainly a significant amount of the profitability results from that. Absolutely they worked on these models before the acquisition but the fact is that Porsche's highest volume models and the development of them works because of the platform sharing. They're even made in the same factory...the Cayenne's are built to a large extent in a factory with the other VW group 4x4's before being brought to Germany to be finished. The next Cayenne is going to be made in entirety at the VW factory in Bratislava alongside Q7, Bentley et al. Porsche and VW or Audi have had a long history together through models like the 914, 924 and the 944 which was also built in the old NSU factory at Neckarsulm which is now one of Audis main plants. Whilst all of these cars have been instrumental in saving Porsche and more recently dramatically increasing its production volumes I fail to see how who owns Porsche has any baring on any of that. The company has always collaborated with other German companies.
I don't see the need for Porsche and Audi to both build low end sports cars, to be honest. In the medium term, why not have a single 2 seater and stick on a different badge at the end of the production line? The Macan and Cayenne tell us that people will pay a lot for the Porsche badge.
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