718 review - test drove today
Discussion
Timbo_Mint said:
just dipped in to this topic after a while away. I take it no one has test drove a 718 recently then?
I had a spare PEC day to use up from a previous car so I've booked my Mum a drive in a 718 CS next Tuesday. I'll let you know what she thinks and how the sound compares to her Evoque 
Back to the branding/status/validation thing for a sec, I do think we’re all affected by it. To a greater or lesser extent. Weirdly, I’ve got no problem shopping at Lidl or buying cheapo own brand versions of things (and I’m a real foodie and someone who loves to cook). Indeed sometimes the cheaper products are better (especially at Lidl).
But I can honestly say that if, hypothetically, Porsche and Ferrari both made an identical car, for an identical price, and the only difference was the badge on the front, I’d probably go for the Ferrari. Indeed I could conceive of a circumstance where I’d pay a bit more for the Fezza. Which makes no sense clearly, even in my head, yet the draw to the brand is strong.
Likewise, when they released the Aygo/C1/108, even though they were identical cars to all intents and purposes, I remember thinking that my gut instinct would be to go for the Toyota if I was ever in the market for one, even though it was about £500 dearer from memory as by and large I don’t trust French cars for reliability.
Bonkers!
But I can honestly say that if, hypothetically, Porsche and Ferrari both made an identical car, for an identical price, and the only difference was the badge on the front, I’d probably go for the Ferrari. Indeed I could conceive of a circumstance where I’d pay a bit more for the Fezza. Which makes no sense clearly, even in my head, yet the draw to the brand is strong.
Likewise, when they released the Aygo/C1/108, even though they were identical cars to all intents and purposes, I remember thinking that my gut instinct would be to go for the Toyota if I was ever in the market for one, even though it was about £500 dearer from memory as by and large I don’t trust French cars for reliability.
Bonkers!
Mario149 said:
Back to the branding/status/validation thing for a sec, I do think we’re all affected by it. To a greater or lesser extent. Weirdly, I’ve got no problem shopping at Lidl or buying cheapo own brand versions of things (and I’m a real foodie and someone who loves to cook). Indeed sometimes the cheaper products are better (especially at Lidl).
I'm sure you are right to some degree. Clearly there are cases where you perhaps know little about a product's performance or reliability when you might take, what you think is the "safe" option and go for the brand. On the other hand if it's sold by what you have found to be a reliable vendor - say Aldi or Lidl - you (and certainly me) may well choose the unbranded option. In a sense you are buying the Aldi or Lidl brand then.That said, I can't imagine I'd choose one brand of car just based on the badging. Take the GT86/BRZ option. Same basic car made in the same factory. Although I've owned 2 Subarus and no Toyotas, I'm sure I'd make the choice based upon any differences in setup/equipment/warranty/discounts and residuals.
Ferrari/Porsche identical cars in the same factory? Again same set of criteria for me. Same car different factory? Almost certainly Porsche - because of my perception (at least partially objective) of Ferrari reliability.
And I have to say I rather take smug delight in choosing (say) a Skoda or Seat rather than a VW or Audi, knowing I'd got better value for my money. (Unfortunately people have realised that and Skodas, in particular, aren't the steal they once were, so you can't be quite as smug buying one.) Conversely I don't have a high opinion of those who choose a 911 over a 981 for badge snobbery reasons ONLY (and there are plenty). Inverted snobbery? Perhaps.
I have owned an (old style) Fiat Multipla so I'm clearly not very fussed about what the neighbours might think.
bcr5784 said:
And I have to say I rather take smug delight in choosing (say) a Skoda or Seat rather than a VW or Audi, knowing I'd got better value for my money.
Have you ever sat in a Seat and pressed the interior trim with a finger? When my son was looking for his first car it was this which put him off Seat completely. Moved in and out considerably.Can't be better value if it's an inferior product, which Seat is.
DJMC said:
Have you ever sat in a Seat and pressed the interior trim with a finger? When my son was looking for his first car it was this which put him off Seat completely. Moved in and out considerably.
Can't be better value if it's an inferior product, which Seat is.
Just bought a Seat Ibiza. Contrary to your implications, the Seat has soft touch plastics, cloth or leather on most places you are likely to touch. Personally can't understand the obsession with soft touch plastics (or leather) on places you don't regularly touch.. Can't be better value if it's an inferior product, which Seat is.
But that said, superior interior trim could be a valid reason for choosing a VW or Audi if that is your thing . But as has been said there are those who buy the badge, not the actual product, wouldn't even look at a Skoda etc. It's the brand issue rather than merits of Seats that I am on about.
And of course it CAN be better value if it's an inferior product. A Golf GTI is a superior product to a base Golf. Better value - certainly not.
Nobody disputes that brands are worth an enormous amount - a Porsche badge puts about many thousands of pounds in extra profits on an otherwise very similar product. Some people dispute that badges and appearances mean nothing to them, but I personally don't think so highly of myself as to suppose that I am immune to image considerations.
The 718 is relying massively on its Porsche badge, as are the SUVs. The next 4 pot turbo Porsche will be a re-badged Audi and will sell no less well than the current 4 pot turbo (which, to be fair, remains genuinely Porsche).
The Boxster / Cayman always used to be superb value because it was almost the same as the 911 and much much cheaper. The 718 is reasonably priced compared to other new Porsches but looks very expensive against used 981s.
The 718 is relying massively on its Porsche badge, as are the SUVs. The next 4 pot turbo Porsche will be a re-badged Audi and will sell no less well than the current 4 pot turbo (which, to be fair, remains genuinely Porsche).
The Boxster / Cayman always used to be superb value because it was almost the same as the 911 and much much cheaper. The 718 is reasonably priced compared to other new Porsches but looks very expensive against used 981s.
Over the last 15 years I have had 5 SEATS . arosa , x2 altea , leon st , and a mii
all new , apart from the leon which was 9 months old.
maybe the quality of the dashboard is slightly inferior to the vw version of the car , but when you save roughly 20% on the price of the eqv vw , i can accept that...
plus i have an excellent SEAT dealer just down the road.
i kid myself the 3 cylinder in the mii is like half a porsche 6!
all new , apart from the leon which was 9 months old.
maybe the quality of the dashboard is slightly inferior to the vw version of the car , but when you save roughly 20% on the price of the eqv vw , i can accept that...
plus i have an excellent SEAT dealer just down the road.
i kid myself the 3 cylinder in the mii is like half a porsche 6!
DJMC said:
Can't be better value if it's an inferior product, which Seat is.
Not everyone sees softer touch plastics as an important criteria though, so they may consider the cheaper product as being as good and therefore better value.Having said that, the delta in lease rates between "equivalent" VW and Seat is small, if any, which may indicate better residuals for the VW and that most people do value softer plastics...or indeed the brand.
ORD said:
The 718 is relying massively on its Porsche badge
Again that's a question of perception.My perception is different. The 718 'relies' on its Porsche badge no more no less than the 981 or the 987 do. A 2-seater mid-engine Porsche sports car is a 2-seater mid-engine Porsche sports car.
Edited by Tim bo on Saturday 22 July 08:41
Alternatively, a hatchback with a 4 cylinder turbo engine is a hatchback with a 4 cylinder turbo engine. Engineering and handling aside (which almost nobody cares about), it has little to distinguish it from fast hatches except its badge.
Take the badge off and it wouldn't sell well at all. 2 seaters without premium badges struggle (with a few very notable exceptions).
Take the badge off and it wouldn't sell well at all. 2 seaters without premium badges struggle (with a few very notable exceptions).
Timbo_Mint said:
Seriously?
Do you honestly believe that the majority of people who buy a Porsche do so because of the badge and don't care about how well it's designed, made or goes?
Yes. Most probably don't know what 'flat six' means.Do you honestly believe that the majority of people who buy a Porsche do so because of the badge and don't care about how well it's designed, made or goes?
I know in real life 6 people that drive Porsches.
1 didn't know his Boxster was rear wheel drive.
1 drives a Macan (enough said)
1 admitted buying her Cayenne because it's a Porsche
1 saw his Cayman as interchangeable with a diesel Macan and had never used more than 4,000 revs
1 knows and loves everything about his old RUF turbo. Proper car nerd.
1 only drives his Boxster around London on Saturdays and cleans it once a week for no obvious reason
1 loves her 986 Boxster because it is fast and comfortable (fair enough)
This is probably a lot more representative a sample than one comprised of car nerds like me, you and most other people posting on here.
None of those people has (almost) ever revved the engine out. They all like autos. None of them drives much for pleasure. They all like the premium badge and pleasant interior.
ORD said:
Alternatively, a hatchback with a 4 cylinder turbo engine is a hatchback with a 4 cylinder turbo engine. Engineering and handling aside (which almost nobody cares about), it has little to distinguish it from fast hatches except its badge.
Take the badge off and it wouldn't sell well at all. 2 seaters without premium badges struggle (with a few very notable exceptions).
There is some pompous fanboy drivel posted on this forum on occasion. There was a similar post on the first page of this thread.Take the badge off and it wouldn't sell well at all. 2 seaters without premium badges struggle (with a few very notable exceptions).
Of course brand plays a part in the buying decision (we're all different after all), but to claim that those who buy a 718 must do so only for the badge principally because it has a 4-cylinder engine is ludicrous.
ORD said:
Timbo_Mint said:
Seriously?
Do you honestly believe that the majority of people who buy a Porsche do so because of the badge and don't care about how well it's designed, made or goes?
Yes. Most probably don't know what 'flat six' means.Do you honestly believe that the majority of people who buy a Porsche do so because of the badge and don't care about how well it's designed, made or goes?
I know in real life 6 people that drive Porsches.
1 didn't know his Boxster was rear wheel drive.
1 drives a Macan (enough said)
1 admitted buying her Cayenne because it's a Porsche
1 saw his Cayman as interchangeable with a diesel Macan and had never used more than 4,000 revs
1 knows and loves everything about his old RUF turbo. Proper car nerd.
1 only drives his Boxster around London on Saturdays and cleans it once a week for no obvious reason
1 loves her 986 Boxster because it is fast and comfortable (fair enough)
This is probably a lot more representative a sample than one comprised of car nerds like me, you and most other people posting on here.
None of those people has (almost) ever revved the engine out. They all like autos. None of them drives much for pleasure. They all like the premium badge and pleasant interior.
Porsche718S said:
There is some pompous fanboy drivel posted on this forum on occasion. There was a similar post on the first page of this thread.
Of course brand plays a part in the buying decision (we're all different after all), but to claim that those who buy a 718 must do so only for the badge principally because it has a 4-cylinder engine is ludicrous.
Also not a claim that anybody made. Of course brand plays a part in the buying decision (we're all different after all), but to claim that those who buy a 718 must do so only for the badge principally because it has a 4-cylinder engine is ludicrous.
edo said:
Have reported this account as hacked by C Moose.
Tbf, it didn't contain "NASP" nor "ad hominem" so not too sure.
In all seriousless, it doesn't matter what the majority of people's motivation might be.
I would/will gladly buy a 718 despite the badge.
It's also entirely conceivable that someone buys a 718 and revs the engine, prefers a manual and drives for pleasure.
It's also conceivable that they sometimes drive for pleasure and sometimes purely for functional transport reasons in their 718.
As often, the need to pigeon hole the new Porsche buying demographic is not really useful, particularly when it leads to generalisation.
I don't get why people feel the need to do that ? This is what happened when Porsche moved to water cooled : people got upset and it was a scandal then for some.
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 22 July 12:57
nickfrog said:
Tbf, it didn't contain "NASP" nor "ad hominem" so not too sure.
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 22 July 12:57
Serious (?) question, ignoring effect on residuals (which might well be massive) how many would buy a 981 if it was badged (say) Kia?
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