718 review - test drove today
Discussion
riano said:
'lacking as a driver's car' that is most certainly not a criticism i've ever heard of it. The main problem people complain about is trying to get down the massive amounts of torque from low revs (not a problem in a 981 as it has nothing to speak of), i'd agree that the 981 has no challenges though and that's precisely why I found it boring - it's just too easy to drive and nothing about it is exciting. Does sound great though in fairness.
Did you ever drive an E46 330ci or M3?I guess it was challenging when the rear end slid out, but the 981 goes sideways too, as I found out with mine at the PEC.
The 981 keeps a grin on your face though, whereas the BMW may be a grimace as you head for the ditch/hedge. A different kind of "fun"? I'll say!
Perhaps it's precisely this predictability you don't like in the 981/718? For me it's the essence of a driver's car. To know exactly what it's going to do next. Still learning mine...
DJMC said:
Still learning mine...
And there lies the fun for me too. Even now I still go out for a blast and at various points realise that the car is more capable than I am...it's generally after rounding a bend at a pace that I think is good and the car just feels so planted and right, that I know it would have allowed me to go even faster.That's not a 'challenge'. That's a reward. My car says, "Well done - next time try a little harder and I will respond even more amazingly" (because apparently I live in an episode of Knight Rider...).
I really don't get why people want a 'challenge'. If you want a challenge, buy a hunk of American muscle and then fit bike tyres to the back. Super challenging.
PhantomPH said:
I really don't get why people want a 'challenge'. If you want a challenge, buy a hunk of American muscle and then fit bike tyres to the back. Super challenging.
Or buy an old 911.. I personally wouldn't myself, but I can understand those who might consider a 981 as too good and want something that rewards good driving and punishes bad. The 981 and 781 do flatter a driver.You can't really compare BMWs and Porsche sports cars, as someone said before apples and oranges. One is a family car with tweaks, the other is a sports car that can be used for practical things in some circumstances. The Porsche is always going to lack comfort and toys in relative terms, and the BMWs will always feel like a barge when pushed hard.
Just because both are now turbo cars doesn't really in truth make them any more comparable. And to criticise a 981 for having too little torque is to roundly miss the point of it.
Just because both are now turbo cars doesn't really in truth make them any more comparable. And to criticise a 981 for having too little torque is to roundly miss the point of it.
^ I have to say, my old CGTS had more road compliance and a far better comfort feeling to it compared to my current M2, almost to hard and stiff, especially on the rear.
I never ever felt I had too little torque with the GTS, just wonderful engine, screaming with PSE as a F1 car, the PDK so good, so fast, so alive and kicking, just a joy, driving fun at its best. My M2 has 6MT, I`ve driven an M4 with the DCT, and that transmission is not that good compared to the PDK, the reason I bought the 6MT.
I really do hope the 718 GT4 comes 6F NA and the choice MT/PDK, that will be for sure my next car, PDK for me that is.
I never ever felt I had too little torque with the GTS, just wonderful engine, screaming with PSE as a F1 car, the PDK so good, so fast, so alive and kicking, just a joy, driving fun at its best. My M2 has 6MT, I`ve driven an M4 with the DCT, and that transmission is not that good compared to the PDK, the reason I bought the 6MT.
I really do hope the 718 GT4 comes 6F NA and the choice MT/PDK, that will be for sure my next car, PDK for me that is.
bcr5784 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There are clearly people for whom the exhaust note is a primary factor in choosing a car. Indeed someone posted on here that (in the case of the 981) it was the MOST important factor in their choice of car.And then there are those (like me) who find the exhaust of the 981 very pleasant and engaging, but don't find it produces spontaneous orgasms - and that other factors (handling, steering) arouse us rather more .
At the end of the day there is choice and preference. The rest really doesn't matter. Unless you feel you made then wrong choice.
HighwayStar said:
There won't be many who buy the 981 solely for the exhaust note... most have it for the F6 AND the handling and steering... yes the 718 has improved a smidgen in those areas and a noticeable about in the numbers. I have driven the 718, had it for a day and (on roads I know well) it didn't feel like my 981 was rendered obsolete. As a whole the 718, in my opinion, has lost a massive amount of character. For those coming from a Golf R's, other latter day turbos, the 718 is going to be revelation. it's not a bad car, far from it. I've had turbo cars and it's not what I want. I don't want lag... yes it can be driven around, anticipated. Ahh, but I don't like the lack of grunt low down from the F6... well that can be driven around and anticipated too.
At the end of the day there is choice and preference. The rest really doesn't matter. Unless you feel you made then wrong choice.
Had a similar experience when I borrowed a 718 Boxster. The steering was a bigger improvement than I expected, sharper and more direct it was a good step forward although as you started to reach the limits it was much more similar to the 981. The sat nav was a big improvement as well, if it had been that good in the 981 I would have specced it. General interior seems no different to me, just a tweak to the air vents which look no better or worse IMHO. At the end of the day there is choice and preference. The rest really doesn't matter. Unless you feel you made then wrong choice.
The engine was a much larger difference than I expected. On the motorway it had noticeably more grunt and was definitely easier, around town it seemed to need a bit more revs and wasn't quite as refined but difficult to tell as it was an auto and I'm more accustomed to a manual. The extra torque was nice for provoking a bit of slip too as you didn't need as lower gear as in the 981. Through back roads I missed the peakier power delivery of the 6 cylinder, found I was going a bit faster but not enjoying it as much (Probably both negatives). Sound is a big part of that type of use for me and the 718 is a big step back there, I didn't find it overly noisy even with the sports exhaust on but it was a tuneless thrum in comparison that barely changed with more revs applied.
Other things I learnt during the day were PDK is not for me but I might well go for a soft top next time, roof up refinement was good.
For me what it comes down to is there is far too much give and take in this comparison. I'm not on PCP or hire purchase so I don't have to change car and if I buy a new car I want a good overall improvement and I don't get that with a 718. I will say I still think if I test drove the normal hot hatches like I did 2 years ago and then a 718 I would still pick the 718 over more humdrum efforts like the Golf R but the engine would not factor much this time round.
Edited by Krobar on Monday 17th July 21:26
ORD said:
People stuck in car financing cycles need to buy a new car to keep up with the neighbours and/or to avoid putting in more capital.
Rubbish.By and large, my experience is that people are taking advantage of products like PCP to get themselves into cars that they would not normally be able to afford. Nothing to do with keeping up with anyone.
As for capital, the only difference PCP products have made is that instead of the deposit being X% of the purchase price equating to a £Y monthly HP-style product repayment, the same X deposit and Y monthly figure are being seen as a way to get something a bit nicer for the same money they would normally pay in a regular repayment.
If there is a 'bubble' to burst (which I don't think there is) it will be that PCP rates change to such an extent that people no longer take that option. There will be a correction in the used market and all will continue as usual.
The enormous majority of people know they have a certain amount they can pay as a deposit and a certain amount they will pay per month for their vehicle. IF that means a 1.0 Fiesta or a 1.6 Focus the ONLY decision is which one fits in my available budget. NOT 'which will make me look better than no.73'.
ORD said:
Financing is the elephant in the room.
People stuck in car financing cycles need to buy a new car to keep up with the neighbours and/or to avoid putting in more capital.
This is absolute tosh - I don't care what next door buy, I buy on PCP because I would rather have the capital sat in my bank for me invest or provide me with more freedom to make an informed decision should anything happen with my employment. In that period between the initial payment and the balloon I can then choose whether I want to keep the car or not. I don't automatically upgrade because of what others might think of me I care only what suits me and my family.People stuck in car financing cycles need to buy a new car to keep up with the neighbours and/or to avoid putting in more capital.
ORD said:
We disagree, then - I think the need to buy a new car every few years does indeed have a lot to do with status anxiety.
Absolutely it's all about personal approach to these things.Which sets me up nicely to disagree with you again! I have kept some cars for 6 years and some for 10 months. Nothing to do with status at all. Entirely to do with how good I find a car, what I use it for...but really it comes down to the fact that I like cars! It's as simple as it being my very expensive vice and I like to try new and different things.
I love my GTS, but I would happily try a GT4. Be that after 3 years or 3 months, I don't care - if I wanted to change and could afford to throw some money around, then I would change.
You also have to consider the fact that sometimes people will change once a car starts running towards the end of a warranty period or is due it's first MOT or ultimately because the dealer calls them and says they can be upgraded to a new version of the same car without affecting their monthlies (which has been happening for years to colleagues of mine who drive more mundane metal)
You've answered a point about people generally with a long defence of your own personal habits. Not really an answer at all.
As Cmoose says, we are generally terrible at understanding our own motivations.
But I am well aware that badges and perceived quality matter somewhat to me. I am also aware that I dont want to drive anything that makes look like a tit. I would feel a right idiot driving a GT3 RS in London, for example, but others think they look cool doing so. Image matters to all of us.
As Cmoose says, we are generally terrible at understanding our own motivations.
But I am well aware that badges and perceived quality matter somewhat to me. I am also aware that I dont want to drive anything that makes look like a tit. I would feel a right idiot driving a GT3 RS in London, for example, but others think they look cool doing so. Image matters to all of us.
You're both letting your own attachment to status colour your opinion of others' motivations.
I did question what my car would say about me before I bought it. I remember saying to my wife that I was worried people would think I was getting ideas above my station or trying to show off etc. etc. Her response was, "Who gives a f
k what other people think?". She was right.
In my case I considered NOT buying a car because of public perception. I can guarantee that I have NEVER bought any car in order to try and improve public perception.
I did question what my car would say about me before I bought it. I remember saying to my wife that I was worried people would think I was getting ideas above my station or trying to show off etc. etc. Her response was, "Who gives a f
k what other people think?". She was right.In my case I considered NOT buying a car because of public perception. I can guarantee that I have NEVER bought any car in order to try and improve public perception.
This is the 4th car i've taken on PCP and the decision to change has never been based around how much finance I have left or whether I am still in that finance cycle. For example the last one I had paid off. If I had paid outright on capital from the start I would still have changed cars at the same time as I did as my desire to change was always down to wanting to try a new car because I like cars.
If it was a status thing one could argue that I would also spend lots of money on clothing or other items that would convey a higher status but they don't interest me. I think its absolutely fair to suggest that most are driven by consumerism but I don't believe that it's about keeping up with the Jones's.
If it was a status thing one could argue that I would also spend lots of money on clothing or other items that would convey a higher status but they don't interest me. I think its absolutely fair to suggest that most are driven by consumerism but I don't believe that it's about keeping up with the Jones's.
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