GT4 strut top failure

[jimPH]

Doesn't look like it's going away.. certainly puts me off buying along with the massive engine issues on GT3's.

[ChrisW.]

gtsralph said:

I see that PCA Club Racing have issued a notice allowing fitment of the strut reinforcement plates for GT4s



It’s a pity the weakness in design is not acknowledged by Porsche themselves and of course these plates will only minimise damage caused by strut tower failure.

Further comments on this post:

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/948382-strut-tower...

But this is only available for LHD cars ...

[dreamtime]

As these failures are likely to lead to total failure of the steering and brakes, hence leading to total loss of control of the vehicle on the road, these failures ought to be brought to the attention (in the UK) of the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) for investigation by them. The same ought to be happening in the USA with their appropriate vehicle authority. Details of the postings on this site together with those on Rennlist should suffice to highlight the situation.

[jimPH]

That's what I can't understand. Just how many failures does it need before they take action, on the front steering wheels no less.

[finmac]

Thread resurrection. Does anyone know if the new GT4 has the same strut tops or have Porsche re-engineered them?

[Twinfan]

Same structure I believe as the core shell is the same.

[finmac]

Twinfan said:

Same structure I believe as the core shell is the same.

Very reassuring - not!

Must say I do wonder what the long term holds regarding these failures, it’s not beyond the pale to imagine metal fatigue as the cars age and hence more failures. But hey, I’m not a metallurgist!

[ChrisW.]

For info the top strut supports are only available for LHD cars ... I guess for the Clubsort GT4 race series.

As for top mounts .. they are the same for GT4 and GT3 cars ... the GT3 being both heavier and more performant than most GT4's ...

Most have not failed ... it's gone very quiet on here, which I guess is good news !

[RacerMike]

ChrisW. said:

For info the top strut supports are only available for LHD cars ... I guess for the Clubsort GT4 race series.

As for top mounts .. they are the same for GT4 and GT3 cars ... the GT3 being both heavier and more performant than most GT4's ...

Most have not failed ... it's gone very quiet on here, which I guess is good news !

Also, all the strut supports do is stop the strut going through the bonnet. They don't stop the failure. I believe basically all cases of this were down to kerb strikes at some point in the cars history weren't they? Like the yellow car in Scotland, someone highlighted he'd sent it heavily across a huge sausage kerb at Knockhill in one of the videos he'd posted a few months prior.

[dunc_sx]

RacerMike said:

Also, all the strut supports do is stop the strut going through the bonnet. They don't stop the failure. I believe basically all cases of this were down to kerb strikes at some point in the cars history weren't they? Like the yellow car in Scotland, someone highlighted he'd sent it heavily across a huge sausage kerb at Knockhill in one of the videos he'd posted a few months prior.

I'd be interested in seeing this vid if anyone knows the location of the heavy kerb strike. If it's the kerb I'm thinking of the car will be unloaded (usually both kerbside wheels airborne) and pretty much every car that goes around Knocky will use at least part of this kerb. I wouldn't expect any structural damage from this on any car.

Having not read this entire thread (I probably have seen most of it before) it seems that "kerb hopping" isn't acceptable with GT4's but I'm fairly sure any other car could handle it no problem.

I'm not in any way anti GT4 as I'm currently shopping for one but this aspect of them has never sat easily with me, saying that I realise there will be plenty of track used GT4's that won't have this problem.

Would the same happen on a heavy pot hole where you'd usually expect to get a burst tyre or bent wheel at most?

Dunc.

[ChrisW.]

I think the fact that we haven't seen more on this says that it really isn't an issue.

The early cars are now 7 years old ....

[Oilchange]

RacerMike said:

ChrisW. said:

For info the top strut supports are only available for LHD cars ... I guess for the Clubsort GT4 race series.

As for top mounts .. they are the same for GT4 and GT3 cars ... the GT3 being both heavier and more performant than most GT4's ...

Most have not failed ... it's gone very quiet on here, which I guess is good news !

Also, all the strut supports do is stop the strut going through the bonnet. They don't stop the failure. I believe basically all cases of this were down to kerb strikes at some point in the cars history weren't they? Like the yellow car in Scotland, someone highlighted he'd sent it heavily across a huge sausage kerb at Knockhill in one of the videos he'd posted a few months prior.

Sausage kerbs are designed to be driven over, they are driven over regularly and cars are not supposed to have terminal damage caused by them. They are there to keep cars within track limits. Porsche has designed in a major flaw to the structural strength of the chassis that cannot be undone.

Poor design, nothing more.

[Taffy66]

Oilchange said:

RacerMike said:

ChrisW. said:

For info the top strut supports are only available for LHD cars ... I guess for the Clubsort GT4 race series.

As for top mounts .. they are the same for GT4 and GT3 cars ... the GT3 being both heavier and more performant than most GT4's ...

Most have not failed ... it's gone very quiet on here, which I guess is good news !

Also, all the strut supports do is stop the strut going through the bonnet. They don't stop the failure. I believe basically all cases of this were down to kerb strikes at some point in the cars history weren't they? Like the yellow car in Scotland, someone highlighted he'd sent it heavily across a huge sausage kerb at Knockhill in one of the videos he'd posted a few months prior.

Sausage kerbs are designed to be driven over, they are driven over regularly and cars are not supposed to have terminal damage caused by them. They are there to keep cars within track limits. Porsche has designed in a major flaw to the structural strength of the chassis that cannot be undone.

Poor design, nothing more.

The very rare cases of front strut tops failing only happened on GT4s which had been lowered. Basically the lowered car resulted in the damper running out of travel and nowhere to go except straight through the subframe supporting the strut tops.
Will get my GT4 an alignment more suited for track use however will no lower it apart from it being lowered by adding negative camber.

[gtsralph]

Taffy66 said:

The very rare cases of front strut tops failing only happened on GT4s which had been lowered. Basically the lowered car resulted in the damper running out of travel and nowhere to go except straight through the subframe supporting the strut tops.
Will get my GT4 an alignment more suited for track use however will no lower it apart from it being lowered by adding negative camber.

My 718 GT4 ex factory Axle Ride Heights were 113mm/134mm F/R and after CG alignment for track use were 102mm/125mm. No issues on clearance or kerbs, so far.....

[gtsralph]

gtsralph said:

My 718 GT4 ex factory Axle Ride Heights were 113mm/134mm F/R and after CG alignment for track use were 102mm/125mm just to add some data to the discussion. No issues on clearance or kerbs, so far.....

[TDT]

Taffy66 said:

The very rare cases of front strut tops failing only happened on GT4s which had been lowered. Basically the lowered car resulted in the damper running out of travel and nowhere to go except straight through the subframe supporting the strut tops.
Will get my GT4 an alignment more suited for track use however will no lower it apart from it being lowered by adding negative camber.

Correct, this is simply all there is to the subject. Not sure why it’s still a topic. 991.x GT3 and 3RS have the same vulnerability…

[ChrisW.]

Sausage kerbs are designed to be driven over, they are driven over regularly and cars are not supposed to have terminal damage caused by them. They are there to keep cars within track limits. Porsche has designed in a major flaw to the structural strength of the chassis that cannot be undone.

Poor design, nothing more.

---

And what has the failure rate been ?

Is this worth the argument ?

[Oilchange]

And what has the failure rate been ?

Is this worth the argument ?
[/quote]


Well, it's interesting isn't it?

Had Porsche made their brake discs out of cheese instead of metal/ceramic and heavy use had caused the cheese to melt on track, one could argue that it's only under extreme conditions etc and brushed this nonsense under the carpet.
Everyone else wouldn't be having this most basic problem because, well, metal/ceramic.

But Porsche have made an issue, an issue nobody else appears to suffer because of a most basic design flaw*. Might as well made the bloody strut tops from chocolate, at least you'd have a large chunk to nibble on while wondering how to fix it.

• The question is, was the flaw engineered in?

[ChrisW.]

Engineering is a trade-off ... price / weight / normal use + (what percentage ?) / life / market-customer segmentation /

What is the best-cheapest ? Often asked, but obviously impossible to answer ... my answer would be a Honda Jazz or Toyota Yaris !

If you want to pick up on something, the 981 GT4 was sold with fully adjustable suspension ... but this didn't stop front tyre shoulders wearing very badly on track unless the fully adjustable suspension was modified to adjust more ... designed in ?

I think the fact that these turrets are the same on GT4 and GT3 would suggest that it was not designed to be a problem ... and in any event if it was it doesn't appear to have been much of a money spinner.

Of note is that the Clubsport racing versions were only available for LHD cars and the turret supports (that only save the bonnet from damage) are only available for the LHD cars ...

Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 16th October 12:09

[PaulD86]

dunc_sx said:

I'd be interested in seeing this vid if anyone knows the location of the heavy kerb strike. If it's the kerb I'm thinking of the car will be unloaded (usually both kerbside wheels airborne) and pretty much every car that goes around Knocky will use at least part of this kerb. I wouldn't expect any structural damage from this on any car.

If that's the video I'm pretty sure it is, the video is no longer up. The video was uploaded by "Vehicle Villains" who decided to go to Wales for one of their videos and then post footage of them at 3 figure speeds on the public road. Not entirely surprisingly the Welsh police took issue with this and a court case resulted in them getting bans/fines. All their old content was taken down. I am pretty sure the video in question here was one of theirs when one had a GT4. That car also left the track at Knockhill and went through a gravel trap.

Apologies for the "mail" link.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10297105/...