Anyone got a Wiechers Clubsport cage in their 996/997 ?
Discussion
Hi all,
I've been doing some autosolos this year and I'm being nagged to try sprints next year. Sounds good, but for my own peace of mind I'd like buckets, harnesses & a half cage before I do that. So I'm looking at all the options and it's a bit bewildering
I don't really want to go cutting up the car - it's a completely standard 996 C2 atm - so the various cages that attach to the seat belt mounts sound like a good idea, but I can't find detailed pics of how the Wiechers (and also Heigo as a second choice) actually attach.
There's some nice-looking cages in the US but at around $2500 before shipping & import that's going to be way too much. Not keen on the usual Tequipment one as the diagonal is wrong for a RHD car. I'd prefer an "X" rear brace. I'm not planning on doing proper racing so full-on FIA spec is not needed. I don't need use of the rear seats but AFAIK they need to stay put (maybe just folded down) to ensure I stay in the "production" class ! Also, I'm quite tall, so I need to avoid anything that restricts rearward adjustment of the driver's seat.
Anyone got any useful advice / recommendations / detailed install pics ??
I've been doing some autosolos this year and I'm being nagged to try sprints next year. Sounds good, but for my own peace of mind I'd like buckets, harnesses & a half cage before I do that. So I'm looking at all the options and it's a bit bewildering
I don't really want to go cutting up the car - it's a completely standard 996 C2 atm - so the various cages that attach to the seat belt mounts sound like a good idea, but I can't find detailed pics of how the Wiechers (and also Heigo as a second choice) actually attach.
There's some nice-looking cages in the US but at around $2500 before shipping & import that's going to be way too much. Not keen on the usual Tequipment one as the diagonal is wrong for a RHD car. I'd prefer an "X" rear brace. I'm not planning on doing proper racing so full-on FIA spec is not needed. I don't need use of the rear seats but AFAIK they need to stay put (maybe just folded down) to ensure I stay in the "production" class ! Also, I'm quite tall, so I need to avoid anything that restricts rearward adjustment of the driver's seat.
Anyone got any useful advice / recommendations / detailed install pics ??
Edited by sundayjumper on Friday 14th July 13:07
I've seen the results of a 2001 996 with a Techquipment cage that rolled twice at speed over sand at the side of a Middle East highway; the cage structure held up well (there was a cage shaped imprint in the roof) as did the safety cell of car in all honesty so that combination seems to work ok if you are unfortunate enough to crash test one.
If you are getting more serious though a club sport style cage with front hoop and door bars is a better option and it isn't that hard to remove and put the car back to a nearly standard look afterwards. The only thing that can't be easily removed will be the welded reinforcement plates under the floor that should really be put where the cage bolts in to get the best security from it.
Check the fvd.de site, they do some quality bolt in cages
If you are getting more serious though a club sport style cage with front hoop and door bars is a better option and it isn't that hard to remove and put the car back to a nearly standard look afterwards. The only thing that can't be easily removed will be the welded reinforcement plates under the floor that should really be put where the cage bolts in to get the best security from it.
Check the fvd.de site, they do some quality bolt in cages
Slippydiff said:
Quite frankly if you're that risk averse, I wouldn't leave home every morning, let alone consider driving a car in any way shape or form, quickly.
So you're embarrassed that despite being a self-styled expert, you didn't know that cages are handed. That's OK. You'll cope.Anyway, having got nowhere with my original question, I'm going for a Safety Devices rear cage. It will need two pads welded in and that's easy enough to do myself. They are (or can be) just below the line of the carpet so if I get another carpet from a breakers I can cut holes in that, then if/when the cage comes out I can put the original back in.
Photo from their website:
You appear to have missed this :
But despite your somewhat unpleasant demeanour, I'll attempt to keep things civil.
You clearly think the Tequipment cage is in some way inferior due to its design. I don't.
A look at the image you've posted of it doesn't leave me thinking "that's poorly designed, and may not provide the necessary protection in the event of the car rolling" far from it.
But if you're really serious about rollover protection, the Tequipment cage wouldn't be my first choice anyway, as it's really just an easy way to enable harness fitment without having to carry out intrusive mods, whilst at the same time providing a degree of rollover protection. If you want a cage that's going to provide maximum protection with minimal mods to the car, I'd fit the Porsche OE Clubsport rear cage, (although it may not be available anymore,) but the slightly modified version fitted to the 996 GT3 RS is.
In your original post you stated you didn't want to modify the car to accept the cage, yet you're now suggesting welding plates in to enable fitment of the SD cage ?
The Clubsport and GT3 RS cages mount to the existing rear damper mounting points and the floor pan.
The floor will require three 8mm holes drilling (six in total) and you can either weld strengthening plates to the underfloor (as per the factory install) and then underseal them, or just have four load spreading "sandwich" plates made up (two of them with three 8mm nuts welded to their undersides to effectively form captive nuts)
It's been a while since I looked at the underside of the floorpan mounting points, but the floor isn't particularly flat in this area IIRC, so the size of the spreader plates maybe limited.
But despite your somewhat unpleasant demeanour, I'll attempt to keep things civil.
sundayjumper said:
So you're embarrassed that despite being a self-styled expert, you didn't know that cages are handed. That's OK. You'll cope.
Anyway, having got nowhere with my original question, I'm going for a Safety Devices rear cage. It will need two pads welded in and that's easy enough to do myself. They are (or can be) just below the line of the carpet so if I get another carpet from a breakers I can cut holes in that, then if/when the cage comes out I can put the original back in.
Photo from their website:
I don't recall saying I was an expert ? And I sure as hell ain't embarrassed about anything I said or asked.Anyway, having got nowhere with my original question, I'm going for a Safety Devices rear cage. It will need two pads welded in and that's easy enough to do myself. They are (or can be) just below the line of the carpet so if I get another carpet from a breakers I can cut holes in that, then if/when the cage comes out I can put the original back in.
Photo from their website:
You clearly think the Tequipment cage is in some way inferior due to its design. I don't.
A look at the image you've posted of it doesn't leave me thinking "that's poorly designed, and may not provide the necessary protection in the event of the car rolling" far from it.
But if you're really serious about rollover protection, the Tequipment cage wouldn't be my first choice anyway, as it's really just an easy way to enable harness fitment without having to carry out intrusive mods, whilst at the same time providing a degree of rollover protection. If you want a cage that's going to provide maximum protection with minimal mods to the car, I'd fit the Porsche OE Clubsport rear cage, (although it may not be available anymore,) but the slightly modified version fitted to the 996 GT3 RS is.
In your original post you stated you didn't want to modify the car to accept the cage, yet you're now suggesting welding plates in to enable fitment of the SD cage ?
The Clubsport and GT3 RS cages mount to the existing rear damper mounting points and the floor pan.
The floor will require three 8mm holes drilling (six in total) and you can either weld strengthening plates to the underfloor (as per the factory install) and then underseal them, or just have four load spreading "sandwich" plates made up (two of them with three 8mm nuts welded to their undersides to effectively form captive nuts)
It's been a while since I looked at the underside of the floorpan mounting points, but the floor isn't particularly flat in this area IIRC, so the size of the spreader plates maybe limited.
Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 20th July 16:03
Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 20th July 16:07
sundayjumper said:
With a single diagonal, the top should be above the driver to form a protective "A" shape over their head. The other side of the car, without a diagonal, will be a lot weaker if you land upside down.
100% correct!! A cage with a single diagonal should always be above the drivers head, anybody who fits or builds cages will tell you this. Don't worry about 1 of the pistonheads "experts" even when their wrong they won't admit it ( if they have a caged car, probably better if the diagonal is'nt above they're head)
NIgt3 said:
sundayjumper said:
With a single diagonal, the top should be above the driver to form a protective "A" shape over their head. The other side of the car, without a diagonal, will be a lot weaker if you land upside down.
100% correct!! A cage with a single diagonal should always be above the drivers head, anybody who fits or builds cages will tell you this. Don't worry about 1 of the pistonheads "experts" even when their wrong they won't admit it ( if they have a caged car, probably better if the diagonal is'nt above they're head)
But I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this thread, take a look at the cage design, the lack of diagonal behind the driver would make little difference to the cage's integrity in the event of a roll, the cage is triangulated in the critical area irrespective of the diagonal being that side or the other.
And as another contributor has pointed out, in the event of a roll, the Tequipment cage held up well with no sign of weakness on the side without the diagonal. But perhaps if you'd tried to understand the principles of triangulation better, rather than trying to prove me wrong merely for sake of it, your post would have been more constructive and useful ...
Slippydiff said:
NIgt3 said:
sundayjumper said:
With a single diagonal, the top should be above the driver to form a protective "A" shape over their head. The other side of the car, without a diagonal, will be a lot weaker if you land upside down.
100% correct!! A cage with a single diagonal should always be above the drivers head, anybody who fits or builds cages will tell you this. Don't worry about 1 of the pistonheads "experts" even when their wrong they won't admit it ( if they have a caged car, probably better if the diagonal is'nt above they're head)
But I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this thread, take a look at the cage design, the lack of diagonal behind the driver would make little difference to the cage's integrity in the event of a roll, the cage is triangulated in the critical area irrespective of the diagonal being that side or the other.
And as another contributor has pointed out, in the event of a roll, the Tequipment cage held up well with no sign of weakness on the side without the diagonal. But perhaps if you'd tried to understand the principles of triangulation better, rather than trying to prove me wrong merely for sake of it, your post would have been more constructive and useful ...
Perhaps in your 2nd reply to the op it should have said "you learn something new everyday, thanks". Again as a state of fact, if a cage has a single diagonal on the roof section it should always be above the drivers head.
Principles of triangulation lol, prove me wrong lol,
Slippydiff said:
I don't recall saying I was an expert ?
In that case, you won't go on to write a long post to show us all how much you know, and how clever you are, and you are the best, and how you're absolutely not embarrassed at all about your lack of basic knowledge.Slippydiff said:
You clearly think the Tequipment cage is in some way inferior due to its design. I don't.
A look at the image you've posted of it doesn't leave me thinking "that's poorly designed, and may not provide the necessary protection in the event of the car rolling" far from it.
But if you're really serious about rollover protection, the Tequipment cage wouldn't be my first choice anyway, as it's really just an easy way to enable harness fitment without having to carry out intrusive mods, whilst at the same time providing a degree of rollover protection. If you want a cage that's going to provide maximum protection with minimal mods to the car, I'd fit the Porsche OE Clubsport rear cage, (although it may not be available anymore,) but the slightly modified version fitted to the 996 GT3 RS is.
In your original post you stated you didn't want to modify the car to accept the cage, yet you're now suggesting welding plates in to enable fitment of the SD cage ?
The Clubsport and GT3 RS cages mount to the existing rear damper mounting points and the floor pan.
The floor will require three 8mm holes drilling (six in total) and you can either weld strengthening plates to the underfloor (as per the factory install) and then underseal them, or just have four load spreading "sandwich" plates made up (two of them with three 8mm nuts welded to their undersides to effectively form captive nuts)
It's been a while since I looked at the underside of the floorpan mounting points, but the floor isn't particularly flat in this area IIRC, so the size of the spreader plates maybe limited.
Oh.A look at the image you've posted of it doesn't leave me thinking "that's poorly designed, and may not provide the necessary protection in the event of the car rolling" far from it.
But if you're really serious about rollover protection, the Tequipment cage wouldn't be my first choice anyway, as it's really just an easy way to enable harness fitment without having to carry out intrusive mods, whilst at the same time providing a degree of rollover protection. If you want a cage that's going to provide maximum protection with minimal mods to the car, I'd fit the Porsche OE Clubsport rear cage, (although it may not be available anymore,) but the slightly modified version fitted to the 996 GT3 RS is.
In your original post you stated you didn't want to modify the car to accept the cage, yet you're now suggesting welding plates in to enable fitment of the SD cage ?
The Clubsport and GT3 RS cages mount to the existing rear damper mounting points and the floor pan.
The floor will require three 8mm holes drilling (six in total) and you can either weld strengthening plates to the underfloor (as per the factory install) and then underseal them, or just have four load spreading "sandwich" plates made up (two of them with three 8mm nuts welded to their undersides to effectively form captive nuts)
It's been a while since I looked at the underside of the floorpan mounting points, but the floor isn't particularly flat in this area IIRC, so the size of the spreader plates maybe limited.
Anyway, I'm ordering the Safety Devices rear cage. Unfortunately the factory shuts down during August so I won't get it until mid-late Sept now. It'll look like this:
And I've got some Schroth harnesses coming to go with it. I'll post pics of everything once it's here.
Shame after the long wait too.
As for the kerfuffle in the preceding posts the bottom line is surely Tequipmemt or OEM Clubsport cage, better to have one than none. Moreover I am sure that if the Tequipmemt was so poor (perhaps countered by the 'Desert Storm' story on the early post) then Porsche would not sell them here let alone in the USA (esp here as the triangle is "all wrong")
I am quite sure that it would have to be a pretty catastrophic situation to lose out having a Tequipment cage over a Clubsport one. How many here have been in such an incident??? It is all very well point scoring but let's play nice.
I should add that I have been in a forward flip followed by at least four rollovers and came out with a sore neck. Furthermore I only have a Tequipment cage and am unconcerned about not having a Clubsport cage. Slightly diluted by the fact that I do want a Clubsport cage (OEM) but despite all the write offs have still not managed to source one. Why I hear you ask.... well just for that full C/s look and feeling (Cup steering wheel and fire extinguisher are in).
Pip
As for the kerfuffle in the preceding posts the bottom line is surely Tequipmemt or OEM Clubsport cage, better to have one than none. Moreover I am sure that if the Tequipmemt was so poor (perhaps countered by the 'Desert Storm' story on the early post) then Porsche would not sell them here let alone in the USA (esp here as the triangle is "all wrong")
I am quite sure that it would have to be a pretty catastrophic situation to lose out having a Tequipment cage over a Clubsport one. How many here have been in such an incident??? It is all very well point scoring but let's play nice.
I should add that I have been in a forward flip followed by at least four rollovers and came out with a sore neck. Furthermore I only have a Tequipment cage and am unconcerned about not having a Clubsport cage. Slightly diluted by the fact that I do want a Clubsport cage (OEM) but despite all the write offs have still not managed to source one. Why I hear you ask.... well just for that full C/s look and feeling (Cup steering wheel and fire extinguisher are in).
Pip
I've got a Tequipment roll cage in my RHD 996 Turbo and the only issue is that I am restricted in how far I can get my seat back. When I borrowed the OEM Clubsport seats from my old GT3 I could get a comfortable position with the sat back far enough.
However, I now use the OEM 997 GT2 Carbon folding seats and due to their bigger backs can't get the seat back as much as I would like due to the A part of th roll bar.
The passenger seat can go back that little further. For this reason I am likely to fit a GT2 half cage when I get some time. As Pip knows, it's very hard to get hold of the front section of the GT3 cage in isolation.
However, I now use the OEM 997 GT2 Carbon folding seats and due to their bigger backs can't get the seat back as much as I would like due to the A part of th roll bar.
The passenger seat can go back that little further. For this reason I am likely to fit a GT2 half cage when I get some time. As Pip knows, it's very hard to get hold of the front section of the GT3 cage in isolation.
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