The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!

The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!

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Discussion

Porsche911R

15,824 posts

201 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
quotequote all
cmoose said:
No, they are really not.

The GT4 was cheaper list than a base Carrera but unambiguously and clearly the more expensive car to market.

The GT cars are about brand building, not delivering margins on unit sales. Other cars in the range are far better at doing that.
It’s a business there will be a bottom line and profits they need to make on every model.

If they made 300 GT4 then yes but they made what 6000 of them, it’s a cash cow as they sell without any marketing.

It’s a full production car at today’s build levels and the build is micro managed on every penny, hence no free buckets etc so the real price was not the headline £64k joke.




EGTE

823 posts

118 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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GTs could well be loss-leaders or technology-demonstrators ("halo cars")

Here's some others (NB how many are VAG products) that lost money:

Bugatti Veyron,
Lexus LFA
VW Phaeton
Audi A8
Honda NSX

GT4P

3,646 posts

121 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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Twinfan said:
Here's a thought - maybe it won't have a GT4 badge, it might be a 718 R
You could have something a good work around the engine problem.A bit like the runout 987.2 models that way the 718 spyder/R keep the same flat 4 engine as the 718 with less weight a few more hp and bespoke suspension and no Gt4 until the 718.2 model perhaps with the flat4 that everyone has been use to in top model caysters.

cmoose

43,063 posts

165 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
It’s a business there will be a bottom line and profits they need to make on every model.

If they made 300 GT4 then yes but they made what 6000 of them, it’s a cash cow as they sell without any marketing.

It’s a full production car at today’s build levels and the build is micro managed on every penny, hence no free buckets etc so the real price was not the headline £64k joke.
They won't lose money on the GT cars. But it's perfectly obvious to anybody sensible that they exist primarily as brand builders. 6,000 is nothing when you have to tool up bespoke parts, get type approval, ship cars all over the world for journalists to drive.

There's no way they make as much money per unit on 6,000 GT4s as they do on 60,000 911 Carreras. Less per unit, an order of magnitude fewer made. It's not complicated.

Of course, they make far more on the SUVs than they do on the sports cars. And the currency hedging. So when you put all that into the mix, it's perfectly obvious that you wouldn't bother tying up assets and effort creating and selling the GT cars save for the brand building aspect. Any direct profits they make on them will be piffling by Porsche's standards. Without the brand value in doing them, they'd be better off investing the cash and effort elsewhere.

However, the GT cars do wonders for the brand. That is where the value is. A little money made on the side would not be enough.

Fokker

3,206 posts

158 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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Just found out that's it's a GT4 development car. Normally aspirated, huge diffuser as you can see and it's a newly developed exhaust which could have something to with emissions I guess or not as the case may be.

Spyder would I think have same unit which as we've heard before will probably be a 4 litre flat six from the old car.

Voila.
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Twinfan

3,111 posts

40 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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Good info - from the tea lady? biggrin

I guess the styling could change, but it looks a hell of a lot like an almost finished car...

gtsralph

664 posts

80 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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What is the provenance of the pictures?

cmoose

43,063 posts

165 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
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Twinfan said:
Good info - from the tea lady? biggrin

I guess the styling could change, but it looks a hell of a lot like an almost finished car...
Well, it would do if you're using some off-the-shelf panels on an existing model. I mean, if they did put a regular Sport Design bumper on it and didn't bother putting some other bespoke GT4 parts on, like the scoops, but actually the GT4 was going to get the scoops and its own front bumper, said mule would look like.......this!

I don't see them putting a big wing like that on anything other than a new GT4, personally. Meanwhile, I don't see them using the standard Sport Design bumper with a big rear wing and diffusser.

Long story short, I doubt this is the final cosmetic solution for any model, GT4 or otherwise. We'll see, posts preserved for future posterity / humiliation!

Twinfan

3,111 posts

40 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
quotequote all
cmoose said:
Long story short, I doubt this is the final cosmetic solution for any model, GT4 or otherwise. We'll see, posts preserved for future posterity / humiliation!
laugh

I just expected it look rougher like other mules - gaffa here and there, mis-matched wheels etc. The last GTS mules we saw didn't change prior to launch and they looked like this:



For comparison, a previous mule looked like this:



Fokker

3,206 posts

158 months

Sunday 5th November 2017
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
Good info - from the tea lady? biggrin

I guess the styling could change, but it looks a hell of a lot like an almost finished car...
Yes very much from my cleaning / tea lady but she's quite reliable and is very sure its normally aspirated.

Final gt4 won't look like this though as has been said. Rear end (unfortunately) perhaps and the wheels. The rest of the body is 718 GTS to my eye.

Twinfan

3,111 posts

40 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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I've been doing some digging around and here's the info I've gleaned from the web on the pics:

1. The photo was taken in the "mule" parking area, hence the similar looking cars around it.
2. The car seems to have a manual gearbox.
3. The front spoiler is identical to that on the 718 GTS.
4. Side scoops are bog standard 718 versions.
5. The rear diffuser and exhaust configuration matches the one on an all-black Spyder mule spotted in the US recently.
6. Yellow and green emissions stickers on the windscreen show it's not an approved existing engine, otherwise just the green would be displayed (EURO 4 standard).

Conclusions/questions?

1. The engines in the next Spyder and hot Cayman will be the same, as we've seen on the 987/981 models (bar a few horses difference here and there).
2. A flat four turbo seems unlikely given the change in exhaust configuration, and the Clubsport is staying NA so an NA engine seems most likely. 4.0ltr version of the current 3.8ltr is the one rumoured.
3. Why test a new rear aero package without the matching front? That doesn't make sense to me unless this car has the final aero configuration.
4. Will it just be called a Porsche GT4, minus the '718' branding, if it doesn't have a four-pot?

Si-3PO

522 posts

20 months

Monday 6th November 2017
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
I've been doing some digging around and here's the info I've gleaned from the web on the pics:

1. The photo was taken in the "mule" parking area, hence the similar looking cars around it.
2. The car seems to have a manual gearbox.
3. The front spoiler is identical to that on the 718 GTS.
4. Side scoops are bog standard 718 versions.
5. The rear diffuser and exhaust configuration matches the one on an all-black Spyder mule spotted in the US recently.
6. Yellow and green emissions stickers on the windscreen show it's not an approved existing engine, otherwise just the green would be displayed (EURO 4 standard).

Conclusions/questions?

1. The engines in the next Spyder and hot Cayman will be the same, as we've seen on the 987/981 models (bar a few horses difference here and there).
2. A flat four turbo seems unlikely given the change in exhaust configuration, and the Clubsport is staying NA so an NA engine seems most likely. 4.0ltr version of the current 3.8ltr is the one rumoured.
3. Why test a new rear aero package without the matching front? That doesn't make sense to me unless this car has the final aero configuration.
4. Will it just be called a Porsche GT4, minus the '718' branding, if it doesn't have a four-pot?
So by digging you mean summarising the content of this thread? biggrin

Twinfan

3,111 posts

40 months

Monday 6th November 2017
quotequote all
I guess so! laugh

Should have re-read it first...

Yidwann

676 posts

146 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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Si-3PO said:
So by digging you mean summarising the content of this thread? biggrin
Bloody good summary though, I think you'd have to agree! smile

Fokker

3,206 posts

158 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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Probably don't want to give the new front end design away quite yet as the car might be a few months off. Could be an early development car.
I dont see it being called the 718 GT4. Too many numbers for a start (!) and the 991 isn't badged the 991 GT3 smile

It'll just be the Cayman GT4 imo.

rkwm1

Original Poster:

555 posts

38 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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Gutted. No GT4RS then? weepingweeping

Phooey

9,132 posts

105 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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4.0 - you’d have to downtune it by a good margin and not sure Porsche would go the effort and drop it in a sub £70k car. Sort of devalues the flagship GT engine.

3.0t - really didn’t think it would happen from various comments stating NA for as long as possible... and then probably Hybrid before forced but after latest pics I’m thinking maybe this could possibly be turbo to butter us up for possibly more GT turbos. And GT4 needs to be kept to a budget.

My money though is still on 3.8 - not power kit but standard 991.1 C2S power (400hp?) and red line increased.

In some ways I’d be interested if it was turbo charged - with a effing dollop of lag and a few flames here and there biggrin

Fokker

3,206 posts

158 months

Monday 6th November 2017
quotequote all
Phooey said:
4.0 - you’d have to downtune it by a good margin and not sure Porsche would go the effort and drop it in a sub £70k car. Sort of devalues the flagship GT engine.

3.0t - really didn’t think it would happen from various comments stating NA for as long as possible... and then probably Hybrid before forced but after latest pics I’m thinking maybe this could possibly be turbo to butter us up for possibly more GT turbos. And GT4 needs to be kept to a budget.

My money though is still on 3.8 - not power kit but standard 991.1 C2S power (400hp?) and red line increased.

In some ways I’d be interested if it was turbo charged - with a effing dollop of lag and a few flames here and there biggrin
By 4.0 they mean a 4 litre version of the current 3.8 so not the motorsport one, That's what my masseuse told me anyway...

Navanod

149 posts

107 months

Monday 6th November 2017
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twinfan said:
For comparison, a previous mule looked like this:

IMHO... this is the first 982 Spyder Mule, not a GTS. Look at the brakes and wheels... they are GT4s in the back and Spyder wheels in the front. Has the standard roof, but it’s more than likely a motor, suspension test vehicle, not cosmetic production body car.


Edited by Navanod on Tuesday 7th November 07:49

Fokker

3,206 posts

158 months

Monday 6th November 2017
quotequote all
Good detecting!