The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!
Discussion
champ19ns said:
GT4P said:
IF true as no one really knows if and when and what, but let's say it has a detuned gt3 engine then it ain't going to be a £65k car again my bet is closer to £95k then throw in a few extras and we up to £105-110k so it's not going to have much effect on mk1 prices most likely keep them firm and as the flippers break cover prices may even rise!
I am looking to move to a Gen 1 991 GT3 at some point over the next 18 months, but all this talk of how much the 981 GT4 will be worth given the new one on the horizon is all a bit stressful for my liking. I hope the value in them doesn't plummet as its not a long termer for me (4 years+), so I guess timing moving on becomes important..
981 GT4 prices may soften a little when the new one arrives but can't see them plummet.
AMLAndrew said:
I just don't see a price hike of +£30K for the next GT4.
981 GT4 prices may soften a little when the new one arrives but can't see them plummet.
It all depends what engine they use to the price!981 GT4 prices may soften a little when the new one arrives but can't see them plummet.
Gt3 engine in a Gt3 is £112k plus extras so £15k less in a Gt4 is not to hard to imagine most likely call it an Gt4RS to warrant price increase , now if they use the f4 turbo then prices will be low about £65-70k plus extras and if they use the old engine prices will start between £70-75k.
Look how much a 991T is £86k for what!
GT4P said:
AMLAndrew said:
I just don't see a price hike of +£30K for the next GT4.
981 GT4 prices may soften a little when the new one arrives but can't see them plummet.
It all depends what engine they use to the price!981 GT4 prices may soften a little when the new one arrives but can't see them plummet.
Gt3 engine in a Gt3 is £112k plus extras so £15k less in a Gt4 is not to hard to imagine most likely call it an Gt4RS to warrant price increase , now if they use the f4 turbo then prices will be low about £65-70k plus extras and if they use the old engine prices will start between £70-75k.
Look how much a 991T is £86k for what!
One things for sure it gives us all a lot to speculate about
I'm going with a detuned 3.0 litre F6T from the 991.2 GTS, 400bhp - 410bhp, shared front suspension and steering components with the GT3 (same as the 981 GT4), but this time with the option of manual or PDK. The GT4 Clubsport shows that they did in fact do the engineering for both options last time out, just that the PDK option didn't make it into the road car for whatever reason.
I'll back Porsche to do the business again but one thing I can't see is them gambling the stellar reputation of GT cars with an F4T, however much BHP/torque it could produce. They are not averse to forced induction in general as we have seen from the GT2 and GT2RS variants so the F6T seems like the logical outcome.
The ethos of the car (in AP's own words) is one of an entry level GT product and as the 911 GT3 has increased in price (due to the complexity of the development of the technology) it creates a gap for the GT4 and a new breed of customers for the GT cars. Therefore I cannot foresee the car ever receiving a GT3 unit.
I could imagine a mid-engined junior supercar with the GT3 engine to compete with the Macca Sports Series with a price tag to match but that's probably speculation for another thread.
Time will tell!
I'll back Porsche to do the business again but one thing I can't see is them gambling the stellar reputation of GT cars with an F4T, however much BHP/torque it could produce. They are not averse to forced induction in general as we have seen from the GT2 and GT2RS variants so the F6T seems like the logical outcome.
The ethos of the car (in AP's own words) is one of an entry level GT product and as the 911 GT3 has increased in price (due to the complexity of the development of the technology) it creates a gap for the GT4 and a new breed of customers for the GT cars. Therefore I cannot foresee the car ever receiving a GT3 unit.
I could imagine a mid-engined junior supercar with the GT3 engine to compete with the Macca Sports Series with a price tag to match but that's probably speculation for another thread.
Time will tell!
I have a feeling that they could take the GT3 motor, add 'some new internal such as values and cams etc to effectively detune it mechanically rather than just dimming it down with throttle bodies and maps...
I hear its going to be more expensive so this could be why.
I know the old 3.8 is still available but does it really make sense to use that now when its not been out of production for some time?
I reckon a new motor based and I say based on the GT3 unit.
Don't blame me, blame the masseuse if I'm wrong...
I hear its going to be more expensive so this could be why.
I know the old 3.8 is still available but does it really make sense to use that now when its not been out of production for some time?
I reckon a new motor based and I say based on the GT3 unit.
Don't blame me, blame the masseuse if I'm wrong...
Edited by Fokker on Saturday 11th November 15:00
i know the porsche bosses have been very consistent in their msg
but economically, for a small run, that doesn't produce more HP or faster lap times, it doesn't make sense.
For marketing, arguably, getting the F4T to be capable of doing the lap times necessary in the class and keeping up with NA Gt3s and beating the NA GT4 easily will establish a new benchmark and make the F4T markedly desirable. for what's it worth, they could simply spend more time exhaust noise tuning.............
re-engineering Gt3 engines or de-tuning them and pushing up pricing imo makes little sense. It cannibalises the GT3.
caymans and boxsters make the least for porsche. the margins are 15%. As a shareholder, I would want them to make the F4T great.. in its heyday, who complained Colin's subaru sounded s
te?
but economically, for a small run, that doesn't produce more HP or faster lap times, it doesn't make sense.
For marketing, arguably, getting the F4T to be capable of doing the lap times necessary in the class and keeping up with NA Gt3s and beating the NA GT4 easily will establish a new benchmark and make the F4T markedly desirable. for what's it worth, they could simply spend more time exhaust noise tuning.............
re-engineering Gt3 engines or de-tuning them and pushing up pricing imo makes little sense. It cannibalises the GT3.
caymans and boxsters make the least for porsche. the margins are 15%. As a shareholder, I would want them to make the F4T great.. in its heyday, who complained Colin's subaru sounded s
te?along with the lines of your hypothesis, what if they don't make a GT4 road car? only one for racing, which they can afford to charge more.
They could call this road car the new cayman R............ and skip the GT4 road car......
also, u turns happen all the time in the corporate world, especially when it isn't official. i.e. direct from HQ as an official release.
It's fun hypothesising and that's really what it is until it is officially announced.
They could call this road car the new cayman R............ and skip the GT4 road car......
also, u turns happen all the time in the corporate world, especially when it isn't official. i.e. direct from HQ as an official release.
It's fun hypothesising and that's really what it is until it is officially announced.
HokumPokum said:
what if they don't make a GT4 road car? only one for racing, which they can afford to charge more.
They could call this road car the new cayman R............ and skip the GT4 road car......
.
Now that makes sense to me a full fat Gt3 engined race car and a 425hp F4T CaymanR road car!They could call this road car the new cayman R............ and skip the GT4 road car......
.
You all have little faith 
As the 'old' one is so good they'll have to do something to differentiate it. New lighter materials, better in various ways but the motor is the main event so I would expect this to be a talking point. I really don't think that they'll just stick the old motor in with a power kit or a bit more capacity, that would be lazy. They'll be developing something, you wait. They will have listened to the owners and people on here and will have addressed the top end to a degree I would have thought. as a result we might even see a 10k increase in price taking a highly spec'd car to near £90 - £100k.
No way on gods earth will it be a turbo. I think a newly developed engine using a lot of the GT3 as a basis with about 415 bhp if you ask me
I just hope it looks as good as the 991.2.
As the 'old' one is so good they'll have to do something to differentiate it. New lighter materials, better in various ways but the motor is the main event so I would expect this to be a talking point. I really don't think that they'll just stick the old motor in with a power kit or a bit more capacity, that would be lazy. They'll be developing something, you wait. They will have listened to the owners and people on here and will have addressed the top end to a degree I would have thought. as a result we might even see a 10k increase in price taking a highly spec'd car to near £90 - £100k.No way on gods earth will it be a turbo. I think a newly developed engine using a lot of the GT3 as a basis with about 415 bhp if you ask me
I just hope it looks as good as the 991.2.
Don't they have to homologate the race car with a road car with the same basic engine?
Based on the spy shots we've seen, and the Porsche staff quotes, my money is on both a GT4 and a Spyder coming and they'll both share the same NASP engine - the details of which have yet to be confirmed.
Based on the spy shots we've seen, and the Porsche staff quotes, my money is on both a GT4 and a Spyder coming and they'll both share the same NASP engine - the details of which have yet to be confirmed.
The '.2' version of the GT3 is usually a relatively minor update - the latest is probably an exception because the .1's engine reliability disaster (and that in hindsight, PDK-only was a mistake). I would expect the GT4 to be no different. Same engine as the first but with say 20hp extra, plus some very minor twiddling with the suspension setup.
If Clubsport Rennwagen is limited by GT4 rules to 3PS per kg then 390 PS max assuming 1300kg but F6 is torque light which would be fixed with a turbo unit. Mercedes have GT4 turbo and Audi have R8 LMS so the competitive landscape is changing. This and the car homologation requirement is the only argument for F4 in a second generation GT4.
However given Frank W's statements and current "back to basics" market positioning says it is far more likely to be F6 for road car.
However given Frank W's statements and current "back to basics" market positioning says it is far more likely to be F6 for road car.
"Porsche have a window for production before new emissions rules mean they can't use the current engines (RIP amazing 4.0 frown) which are going in the GT3 and the GT2RS and very likely the a GT3RS, the full run of all those cars has to be built by late 2018 / early 2019 depending on who you talk to."
From the GT2RS post ...
Hence an F6 GT4 or GT4RS will have to be done and dusted by then.
What did P do with all the broken GT3 engines ? Would capped revs and a little tweaking enable them to put this into a new super reliable road/track hot-rod ?
There's no doubt that it's hight torque that enables a chassis with stupendous grip to be steered on the throttle at mere mortal speeds ...
How much more could they charge with a "bespoke" re-fettled GT3 engine ?
What seems certain is that this is the swan song for the non-turbo GT cars ... and we all know that Hybrids are next were any turbo lag can be dialled out with electrical power both to fill the torque curve and assist the spin-up of the turbos ...
In this scenario, trying to keep the car light will be the name of the game, but the power characteristics (particularly if ignoring electrical range) could be exceptional.
Does this then also play to the allures and inherent safety of a mid engined platform ??
It could be really exciting !!
From the GT2RS post ...
Hence an F6 GT4 or GT4RS will have to be done and dusted by then.
What did P do with all the broken GT3 engines ? Would capped revs and a little tweaking enable them to put this into a new super reliable road/track hot-rod ?
There's no doubt that it's hight torque that enables a chassis with stupendous grip to be steered on the throttle at mere mortal speeds ...
How much more could they charge with a "bespoke" re-fettled GT3 engine ?
What seems certain is that this is the swan song for the non-turbo GT cars ... and we all know that Hybrids are next were any turbo lag can be dialled out with electrical power both to fill the torque curve and assist the spin-up of the turbos ...
In this scenario, trying to keep the car light will be the name of the game, but the power characteristics (particularly if ignoring electrical range) could be exceptional.
Does this then also play to the allures and inherent safety of a mid engined platform ??
It could be really exciting !!
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 11th November 18:31
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