The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!

The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!

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Discussion

GT4RS

1,179 posts

133 months

Sunday 25th February
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BE57JAM said:
TomEdward said:
Great spot. Original poster included a second pic:

https://instagram.com/p/BfoHYUYHiWs/
They clearly have more than one road going test mule, this is a different car than the last one posted a few weeks back

TomEdward

58 posts

56 months

Sunday 25th February
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He's just posted a video of it...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfoedVwnzM9/

BE57JAM

306 posts

10 months

Sunday 25th February
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TomEdward said:
He's just posted a video of it...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfoedVwnzM9/
Sounds the same as the GTS to me............

GT4RS

1,179 posts

133 months

Sunday 25th February
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That boxster sypder 718 sounds like a 6 to me

rkwm1

Original Poster:

555 posts

38 months

Sunday 25th February
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GT4RS said:
That boxster sypder 718 sounds like a 6 to me
+1
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Cheib

15,404 posts

111 months

Sunday 25th February
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I’ve no idea how anyone can tell for certain from that vid!

Deep1989

30 posts

11 months

Sunday 25th February
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BE57JAM said:
At the risk of being unpopular - all this 718 hate is pure toy throwing and tantrums IMO because the old guard aren’t getting what they want. I’ll be as fair as I can and assume the guys making all the fuss are people that loved the old car and are sad they aren’t getting an upgrade to the formula they’re used to. I can sympathise with that. But the 718 is a BETTER CAR IN EVERY WAY. the amount of air time given to the engine and exhaust note is embarrassing. Totally disproportionate.

FASTER
BETTER HANDLING
BETTER INTERIOR and TECH
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY
MORE TORQUE FOR EVERY DAY USE

reading all the moaning is like hearing those old farts moaning at work about how things were better 20 years ago. It obviously wasn’t or it wouldn’t have changed.

Then again I’m a first time Porsche buyer so maybe I don’t know what I’m missing. But I do know if I had the option to get the old engine or the new I’d pick the new. Shame people don’t have the choice in the new model. Would shut a lot of people up.
Hear hear...


cmoose

43,063 posts

165 months

Sunday 25th February
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BE57JAM said:
That’s fair enough buuuuut, It’s a package we’re buying. If we could cherry pick the best parts from each model we all would, myself included i’m sure.
The 718 is the best overall package ever offered to us. It’s a mazing people aren’t more impressed by it given that it is the. Best. Overall. Package.
It's not the best overall package as a matter of fact. It's the best overall package according to your opinion. Which is perfectly legitimate. But it's not definitive.

I've driven the 981 GTS and 718 GTS back to back. In my view the 981 is a better overall package. Which is again legitimate but not definitive.

As it happens, I think a 987R is a better overall package than the 981 (and in turn the 718). And indeed I prefer my 987.1 3.4 to the 981 GTS as an overall package, albeit my 987 is tweaked.

You needn't agree with any of that, but it's not a fact that the 718 is the best overall package. That's a subjective call.

Moreover, the 718 experience is fairly predictable. It's a little better in the chassis than a 981. But the big difference is in the powertrain, and that's a much more mixed story of pros and cons. And I am not just talking about the noise. So there's no particular to be amazed that people aren't more impressed by it.

BE57JAM

306 posts

10 months

Sunday 25th February
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cmoose said:
BE57JAM said:
That’s fair enough buuuuut, It’s a package we’re buying. If we could cherry pick the best parts from each model we all would, myself included i’m sure.
The 718 is the best overall package ever offered to us. It’s a mazing people aren’t more impressed by it given that it is the. Best. Overall. Package.
It's not the best overall package as a matter of fact. It's the best overall package according to your opinion. Which is perfectly legitimate. But it's not definitive.
I’m glad you chirped in, especially so on this occasion because your response didn’t start with a “no”. Lol. The points you make around personal taste I wouldn’t try to comment against. But, if:

FASTER
BETTER HANDLING
BETTER INTERIOR and TECH
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY
MORE TORQUE FOR EVERY DAY USE

Doesn’t equal, an objectively speaking, better package then I don’t know what does!

Please nobody say we all have different preferences because there has to be a universal standard to what equals a better car. And surely the above, though not exhaustive, and not absolute, is that.

Sustenpass

96 posts

33 months

Sunday 25th February
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The "best package", whatever that may mean to you, is not some objective collection of stats.

In a sports car, I would value the engine (power delivery, response, sound), gearbox and handling well over the infotainment and mpg. In your list these latter things appear to carry equal weighting.

In a luxury cruiser or a city runabout those things might carry more weight than the engine.

It's a great shame that the Boxster and Cayman have lost an engine that made them unique in their segment. Faster it may well be, but at the expense of feeling and sounding more generic.

And apparently in the real world the economy is no better than the 981.

cmoose

43,063 posts

165 months

Sunday 25th February
quotequote all
BE57JAM said:
I’m glad you chirped in, especially so on this occasion because your response didn’t start with a “no”. Lol. The points you make around personal taste I wouldn’t try to comment against. But, if:

FASTER
BETTER HANDLING
BETTER INTERIOR and TECH
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY
MORE TORQUE FOR EVERY DAY USE

Doesn’t equal, an objectively speaking, better package then I don’t know what does!

Please nobody say we all have different preferences because there has to be a universal standard to what equals a better car. And surely the above, though not exhaustive, and not absolute, is that.
It's all about what elements are important to you and how you drive.

In my view, the 718 has worse throttle response, worse power delivery, an overassisted brake pedal (even versus the 981, let alone earlier models), significantly less steering and chassis feel (than pre 981 cars) and so on. If you want steering feel, I would say objectively the 718 has less than a 987.

I like revving naturally aspirated engines out including every day driving. I have no problem regularly revving engines out. I average 16mpg doing 20k a year in my car, just to give you an idea. It's also worth noting that if the 991.2 I drove is anything to go by, the 718's fuel economy will not actually be better if you use the performance a lot, as I do. I drove the 991.2 really hard and the fuel economy was tragic, as it inevitably will be. If you;re producing 420hp, it's going to use a load of fuel when you pin the throttle a lot. The benefits of the smaller engines only come when you drive them gently, which doesn't interest me.

As a package, the 718 doesn't offer much to me. The engine note I find unpleasant, while all the F6 options sound super. The turbo characteristics of the power delivery and throttle response in the 718 distance me from the car and substantially detract from my driving enjoyment.

Then there's the in-car tech. I ultimately don't care about that. I did 3,000 miles in a 991.2. I still used my phone for nav, as I preferred it to the latest Porsche system, which is OK, but not to my preference and in my view not as good as my phone. I don't like the rest of the 718 interior updates and prefer the 981 interior.

Performance wise, the 718 is faster, but outright performance isn't my number one preference. I don't want more performance at the cost of delivery and response. I like engines that rev high and deliver their biggest bang at the top of the rev range and offer precision of throttle response. Objectively, the 718 does poorly here. It delivers more torque low and and less of a crescendo up top. The turbo also makes the throttle less precise, again objectively.

I also don't want ever more grip. For me, you can have too much grip in a road car. Etc.

So, it's quite a complicated picture. As a package, the 718 is comfortably the least appealing option of all the Boxsters and Caymans I've driven, and I've driven very nearly all the variants produced since 1996. Yes, I would take a basic 2.5-litre 986 Boxster over the 718. It's a preferable overall package for me. Still practical and comfortable enough, but more engaging, involving and exciting to drive.

Long story short, the things the 718 is best at are things I value least or things I only need a certain amount of beyond which they become irrelevant or possible a negative and the things I value most are the things the 718 tends to do worst.

There are some exceptions to all that and I did think the 718 GTS was a good car. But as an overall package, it held relatively little appeal. Cars are not about simple objective numbers like power and performance. The overall package very much includes the experience and aspects that can't easily be defined with a few numbers.

Another way of perhaps illustrating the problem here is to compare, say, a basic Elise with a Bentley Continental GT. The Bentley is massively more powerful and far faster. It's far better finished in side, has infinitely better tech. But it's not remotely exciting to drive and as a 'package' the Bentley doesn't interest me at all. I had a 600hp CGT for a week. I didn't enjoy driving it.

That's a huge exaggeration of the kind of contrasts you get between a 718 and other Caysters. But the general point is what holds. As a package, I really didn't enjoy the 718, despite the fact that it has many strong attributes.

Again, this is all what works for me and you will have different preferences and criteria. But the bottom line is that, no, the 718 doesn't make for an objectively better package. It all depends on your criteria. You can say objectively, it's faster for instance. But as soon as you talk about the whole package, how do you say that, objectively, the 718's performance advantage outweighs its steering feel disadvantage within the overall package? You can't.

Bit of a ramble, but it might help you understand why there will be different views on what makes for the best package, objectively and subjectively.


Edited by cmoose on Sunday 25th February 23:57

av185

7,166 posts

63 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
BE57JAM said:
av185 said:
Yep it is quite clear this is the case following the dilution of the 718.

Had a 718 S for a couple of days last week and can honestly say with absolute conviction it was the worst Porsche I have ever driven.

Utterly souless on so many levels.
That’s just silly.
Eh?

Strange response.

Moose is essentially correct in his rather long post. You should read it and take note.

As many have quite rightly said, the engine of the 718 is it's biggest problem. And for a sports car that is a serious problem.

The power delivery, hideous sound (and I do mean hideous .....like a washing machine) and throttle response together with flawed steering ruin the car.

Just to be clear I have no axe to grind. I love Porsches, significantly contemporary ones, and have been lucky enough to have owned over the years and currently own a good number of their finest cars.

And this is definitely one of their worst.

BE57JAM

306 posts

10 months

Monday 26th February
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Faster.
Better handling.
More efficient.

That is objectively better. That’s a fact.

av185

7,166 posts

63 months

Monday 26th February
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Looks like we need one of these

Twinfan

3,111 posts

40 months

Monday 26th February
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BE57JAM said:
Faster.
Better handling.
More efficient.

That is objectively better. That’s a fact.
Better handling could be subjective, depending on the way you drive and your preferences.

More efficient is debatable, a turbo four pot can be pretty un-economical if you gas it everywhere.

So that leaves faster, which in my experience has been the only place the 718 is arguably "better" than the 981.

boitjie

71 posts

11 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
BE57JAM said:
At the risk of being unpopular - all this 718 hate is pure toy throwing and tantrums IMO because the old guard aren’t getting what they want. I’ll be as fair as I can and assume the guys making all the fuss are people that loved the old car and are sad they aren’t getting an upgrade to the formula they’re used to. I can sympathise with that. But the 718 is a BETTER CAR IN EVERY WAY. the amount of air time given to the engine and exhaust note is embarrassing. Totally disproportionate.

FASTER
BETTER HANDLING
BETTER INTERIOR and TECH
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY
MORE TORQUE FOR EVERY DAY USE

reading all the moaning is like hearing those old farts moaning at work about how things were better 20 years ago. It obviously wasn’t or it wouldn’t have changed.

Then again I’m a first time Porsche buyer so maybe I don’t know what I’m missing. But I do know if I had the option to get the old engine or the new I’d pick the new. Shame people don’t have the choice in the new model. Would shut a lot of people up.
lol. I agree with you in every way (and I have driven a 981 CGTS), I prefer the 4 pot turbo - suits my driving style more.

You'll never win a 718 vs 981 argument on a GT4 thread! getmecoat

gtsralph

664 posts

80 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
Moving on...

Why was there a Hybrid Honda NSX (with radio antenna at front) in the same group?


TomEdward said:
He's just posted a video of it...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfoedVwnzM9/

Porsche911R

15,825 posts

201 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
boitjie said:
lol. I agree with you in every way (and I have driven a 981 CGTS), I prefer the 4 pot turbo - suits my driving style more.

You'll never win a 718 vs 981 argument on a GT4 thread! getmecoat
of course not as the 987.2 is the nicer drivers car so you can stick the 981 in the same place as the 718, as all the 981 has going for it is the engine over the 718..

people say the 981 is better in every area so as you can see every thing Cmoose said about the 718 I will say about the 981 even the noise as the 981 has gone for the farty over run chav thing.

leaving the 987.2 the best car and more real to drive. you can go back and say that about older cars but they have engne issues so the 987.2 is the pick of the bunch and the last to have hydraulic steering. If you like driving over having Apple play and want a nice engine, The R is still the best Cayman/Boxster made to date imo.

so I do find 981 owners a bit funny slating the 718 as thy use "better in every area" remarks also but yet fail to see why the 987.2 is the real deal.




Cheib

15,404 posts

111 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
gtsralph said:
Moving on...

Why was there a Hybrid Honda NSX (with radio antenna at front) in the same group?


TomEdward said:
He's just posted a video of it...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfoedVwnzM9/
Almost certainly because they're bench marking the 911 against, perhaps one of the 911's was a 992 hybrid ?

Article here about Porsche future strategy regarding hybrid/electric cars.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-e-...




cmoose

43,063 posts

165 months

Monday 26th February
quotequote all
BE57JAM said:
Faster.
Better handling.
More efficient.

That is objectively better. That’s a fact.
You don't get it.

A 986 is / has:

Smaller - objectively better for a sports car
Lighter - objectively better for a sports car
More steering feel - objectively better for a sports car
No turbo lag - objectively better for a sports car
Etc

So I'll list those, ignore everything else, and conclude the 986 is objectively better and that's a fact.

What you've done is cherry picked a few attributes that favour the 718 and ignored everything else. I'm not saying the 718 is a bad car. It might be the best Cayster yet. But only if it aligns with certain criteria and preferences both objective and subjective.