996 C4S or 997 C2?
Discussion
Guys,
After a collective point of views on buying one of the above 2 cars. I've found 2 cars, both within £1000 of £25K, so price is near enough identical. Both cars done roughly the same mileage (approx 50K), both have full dealer/specialist service history's, both manuals, the C4S has PASM but the C2 doesn't. Rest of the spec is pretty similar. Both cars in fantastic condition. Both black with black leather.
My problem is I love both cars for different reasons
996 C4S
Pros - Wide Body, looks ace, I actually prefer the 4 wheel drive as I'm not brave/stupid/talented enough to be sliding a 911 round sideways, I think value shouldn't drop below current values (hopefully even rise in value)
Cons - Although actual car is a 2004, 996 are now nearly 20 years old in design and feels as such inside.
997 C2 - Build quality and car just seems a huge step up from the 996. It could pass as a 3 year old car.
Cons - Don't think prices have hit rock bottom.
I will be doing about 5000 miles per yer. Had many sports cars over the years (TVR, Lotus, M3 etc) but never scratched the childohood 911 itch, so nows the time.
Will probably keep the car for 2 - 3 year, maybe more. Question is, which one?
After a collective point of views on buying one of the above 2 cars. I've found 2 cars, both within £1000 of £25K, so price is near enough identical. Both cars done roughly the same mileage (approx 50K), both have full dealer/specialist service history's, both manuals, the C4S has PASM but the C2 doesn't. Rest of the spec is pretty similar. Both cars in fantastic condition. Both black with black leather.
My problem is I love both cars for different reasons
996 C4S
Pros - Wide Body, looks ace, I actually prefer the 4 wheel drive as I'm not brave/stupid/talented enough to be sliding a 911 round sideways, I think value shouldn't drop below current values (hopefully even rise in value)
Cons - Although actual car is a 2004, 996 are now nearly 20 years old in design and feels as such inside.
997 C2 - Build quality and car just seems a huge step up from the 996. It could pass as a 3 year old car.
Cons - Don't think prices have hit rock bottom.
I will be doing about 5000 miles per yer. Had many sports cars over the years (TVR, Lotus, M3 etc) but never scratched the childohood 911 itch, so nows the time.
Will probably keep the car for 2 - 3 year, maybe more. Question is, which one?
I was once told by a reputable Porsche indie with 30+ years of experience in the trade that engines woes aside which are common to both cars, the build quality of the 997 is a step ahead relative to the 996.
However, this point is almost irrelevant if the 996 has been cared for and the 997 neglected.
I’d pick the 997 C2 personally if history is like for like.
However, this point is almost irrelevant if the 996 has been cared for and the 997 neglected.
I’d pick the 997 C2 personally if history is like for like.
Midgster said:
Guys,
the C4S has PASM but the C2 doesn't.
You mean the other way round. Don't think 996s had a PASM option.the C4S has PASM but the C2 doesn't.
If it's not a daily driver, the 996 is a better car imo as it's a bit more raw/pure so it feels like more of an occasion. Driving it everyday would be less enticing but still completely do-able.
Why would you chose the 996 ? I have no axe to grind own neither variant but i would only choose a 996 if it was considerably cheaper like for like.
Unless you need awd. 997 is a more modern platform. It drives better, the c2 is one of the best in the 911 range for driving.
Plus it obviously looks far better im one of those who thinks the 996 is a capable car but its looks kinda distant it from the rest of the 911s. Yes partly why i love 911s is thaf classic front which the 996 does not have.
Im actually surprised like for like 996 c4s and 997 c2 trade at parity is this really true? I would certainly pay a lot more for the 997 if it were my cash
Unless you need awd. 997 is a more modern platform. It drives better, the c2 is one of the best in the 911 range for driving.
Plus it obviously looks far better im one of those who thinks the 996 is a capable car but its looks kinda distant it from the rest of the 911s. Yes partly why i love 911s is thaf classic front which the 996 does not have.
Im actually surprised like for like 996 c4s and 997 c2 trade at parity is this really true? I would certainly pay a lot more for the 997 if it were my cash
dvshannow said:
Im actually surprised like for like 996 c4s and 997 c2 trade at parity is this really true? I would certainly pay a lot more for the 997 if it were my cash
'#becauseinvestmentopportunity, to paraphrase Speedhunters.996 C4S prices have been steadily increasing for a good six months. When I started trawling the classifieds there were plenty around for between £18-22k, but now the manuals seem to start at closer to £25k.
I'm one who has been scared off 997s by the engine concerns. When I first started looking I couldn't believe what good value 997s are and as the interior is so much nicer than the 996 it was no contest. Then I started reading about technical issues and became uneasy, which is why I switched my attention to early 996s instead.
Edited by Ahonen on Tuesday 17th April 11:52
Morning!
Firstly, what cmoose said about the 996 / early 997 engines - Bar a few induction and cooling mods it's essentially the same unit.
Anyway, given that you're only planning to put about 5k miles on whichever car you buy (and therefore won't lose that much relative to your initial outlay) IMO it's a no brainer to go for the 997. It's a much fresher looking car and a much more rewarding drive than the C4s.
Pretty as the C4s is, it's still got a lot of cache mainly because of the way it looks, but it's not much of a drivers car when you're pressing on as the extra weight of the wide body and running gear actually count against it. Sure it feels nice and secure, but never that exciting. A friend of mine had one for a couple of years and never really got on with it as he said it always felt like it should feel much quicker but never did.
Contrast that with the 997 which for a start is only rear wheel drive and is, apparently, the sweeter drive out of the C2 / C2s pairing. Take it out, keep it below 4k rpm until the oil temp comes up to about 90deg then drive it like you stole it. It's what 997s were designed for and respond so well to - it'll pay you back in spades.
Firstly, what cmoose said about the 996 / early 997 engines - Bar a few induction and cooling mods it's essentially the same unit.
Anyway, given that you're only planning to put about 5k miles on whichever car you buy (and therefore won't lose that much relative to your initial outlay) IMO it's a no brainer to go for the 997. It's a much fresher looking car and a much more rewarding drive than the C4s.
Pretty as the C4s is, it's still got a lot of cache mainly because of the way it looks, but it's not much of a drivers car when you're pressing on as the extra weight of the wide body and running gear actually count against it. Sure it feels nice and secure, but never that exciting. A friend of mine had one for a couple of years and never really got on with it as he said it always felt like it should feel much quicker but never did.
Contrast that with the 997 which for a start is only rear wheel drive and is, apparently, the sweeter drive out of the C2 / C2s pairing. Take it out, keep it below 4k rpm until the oil temp comes up to about 90deg then drive it like you stole it. It's what 997s were designed for and respond so well to - it'll pay you back in spades.
Not wishing to open pandora's box but bore scoring is v. uncommon on 997.1 3.6 engines (non S) and post 2007 MY Sept'06 build the 3.6 engine has a different and more reliable bearing.
I have a 997.1 C2 and can see the dilemma, for me the interior quality and styling of the newer car appeal - but a 996 4 S is quite rare and likely this will help values.
Check your aircon works!
I have a 997.1 C2 and can see the dilemma, for me the interior quality and styling of the newer car appeal - but a 996 4 S is quite rare and likely this will help values.
Check your aircon works!
Well thanks guys, no help what so ever 
Everything everyone has said here I agree with 100%. I've read all about IMS problems, bore scoring etc and thinks there's risk with either...it's a Porsche so I'm ready for a big repair bill if it happens. Hopefully not.
The C4S is telling me it may well be the more sensible buy, depreciation wise, which although isn't an important factor, does come into the equation. I think it has more wow factor to look at and rarer than the C2, which are pretty common. But then I also agree, I was underwhelmed when I drove the C4S, this may sound crazy, but other than less body roll and more pointy front end, performance wise it didn't feel greatly different to the BMW 645 I'm currently driving (apart from being a manual) ! The C2 did feel like more of an event and just felt more special.
I am edging more to the 997 C2
Everything everyone has said here I agree with 100%. I've read all about IMS problems, bore scoring etc and thinks there's risk with either...it's a Porsche so I'm ready for a big repair bill if it happens. Hopefully not.
The C4S is telling me it may well be the more sensible buy, depreciation wise, which although isn't an important factor, does come into the equation. I think it has more wow factor to look at and rarer than the C2, which are pretty common. But then I also agree, I was underwhelmed when I drove the C4S, this may sound crazy, but other than less body roll and more pointy front end, performance wise it didn't feel greatly different to the BMW 645 I'm currently driving (apart from being a manual) ! The C2 did feel like more of an event and just felt more special.
I am edging more to the 997 C2
Neither car will feel particularly quick by modern standards, they only really shine when you add some bends into the mix.
Interesting to read above that C4S is a disappointing drive, in it's day it was EVO's favourite non GT 996.
You need to drive both for a decent amount of time to work out which you prefer, either way you don't need the AWD as unless you drive like a prat you won't be doing any heroic sliding in a RWD car, regardless of road conditions/weather.
Interesting to read above that C4S is a disappointing drive, in it's day it was EVO's favourite non GT 996.
You need to drive both for a decent amount of time to work out which you prefer, either way you don't need the AWD as unless you drive like a prat you won't be doing any heroic sliding in a RWD car, regardless of road conditions/weather.
As someone who considered both recently, I ended up with a 65k 2002 Black/Black C4S, Hartech rebuild plus loads of other work.
Basically came down to the looks of the car, arguably the best back end on any 911, the fact they seem to have found a level that I can’t see them getting much lower, I know the C2S supposedly drives better but I prefer the looks of the 4S personally.
They are quick enough, pull surprisingly well for 320bhp, especially from 50-100, the handling and braking I describe as a bit blunt, I will improve everything over time as part of a mini restoration, the headlights were the first list and they have made an incredible difference to the front end.
Basically came down to the looks of the car, arguably the best back end on any 911, the fact they seem to have found a level that I can’t see them getting much lower, I know the C2S supposedly drives better but I prefer the looks of the 4S personally.
They are quick enough, pull surprisingly well for 320bhp, especially from 50-100, the handling and braking I describe as a bit blunt, I will improve everything over time as part of a mini restoration, the headlights were the first list and they have made an incredible difference to the front end.
foz01 said:
Basically came down to the looks of the car, arguably the best back end on any 911, the fact they seem to have found a level that I can’t see them getting much lower, I know the C2S supposedly drives better but I prefer the looks of the 4S personally.
Agree completely! (although the 996 Turbo looks even better).Think this is the first time I've ever had this dilemma. Have always known EXACTLY what car I was buying next. I may have to hedge my bets, buy the 996 C4S for now, keep it a year or so "hope" it doesn't lose much in value, then get a 997 C2.
If only I could stretch another £15K for the 996 Turbo they'd be no issue at all!
Chris Stott said:
Midgster said:
Pros - 4 wheel drive as I'm not brave/stupid/talented enough to be sliding a 911 round sideways,
Not something you really have to worry about with any non GT 996. Traction is pretty much infinite unless you're in 1st/2nd and it's super slippery.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff