Cayman GTS 981 - don't really like it.
Discussion
ATM said:
What's DSC?
A 3rd party box of tricks which allows control of PASM over oem limits.Bit tricky to use and set up though imo, the company promised support and help and it never came, so you buy one and have a steep learning curve with outdated mapping.
Great idea but alass without back up not easy to self tune.
I would risk one on a GT4 as it showed good results on the PASM short comings. Would not bother on a 997 car as I would rip all the old crap out anyway.
Better off with 2 dials on some passive shocks imo simples.
Going back to the OPs problem where after reading all the reviews he decided that the 981 CGTS was the car for him only to find that it isn’t.
Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head.
Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to.
So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car?
There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds.
If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion
Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive.
Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed.
Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun.
Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is.
In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities.
It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds.
Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head.
Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to.
So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car?
There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds.
If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion
Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive.
Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed.
Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun.
Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is.
In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities.
It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds.
Wollemi said:
Going back to the OPs problem where after reading all the reviews he decided that the 981 CGTS was the car for him only to find that it isn’t.
Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head.
Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to.
So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car?
There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds.
If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion
Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive.
Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed.
Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun.
Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is.
In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities.
It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds.
Or read my reviews, they are far more honest :-) Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head.
Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to.
So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car?
There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds.
If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion
Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive.
Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed.
Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun.
Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is.
In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities.
It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds.
Wollemi said:
Slippydiff said:
On the contrary, they’re more a combination of deluded, blinkered and cognitive bias than genuine reviews.
I usually concur with Porsche911Rs views and enjoy his comments. Maybe our biases coincide?Have you tried a 981?
ATM said:
Car views are very personal and ultimately they are all about emotion. Maybe you're preferences are similar. No one is wrong here if they tell you what they like and why. You will get bashed if you tell people they are wrong because you can't tell someone else what to think, what to like or what to feel. That's when arguments start and some people on here will get pretty defensive. Me I just like the debate and I actually like cars too.
Have you tried a 981?
some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems.Have you tried a 981?
I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.
Porsche911R said:
some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems.
I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.
I actually enjoy reading your posts as at least they're entertaining and straight to the point..There are some real offensive arI love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.
eholes on here, however i don't consider you one of them..Porsche911R said:
some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems.
I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.
I agreeI love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.
Cold, Chav or even Cute is totally unnecessary.
Wollemi said:
ATM said:
Have you tried a 981?
Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was.If anyone finds me the perfect soft top, NA, manual, electric hood, 60K, let me know!
I am on my second 981 BGTS after selling the first one to get a 991.2 GTS (a great car but not the fun on an afternoon out unless doing very stupid speeds), so a costly change back to a BGTS and I'm very happy.
On the steering, I think there is a massive difference for the worse if Power Steering Plus is fitted, without it the steering at low speeds is much better with decent feel - with PSP it's far too light and no feel. This may not suit everyone, but I too believe no car is perfect in all circumstances and to me the 981 BGTS is an absolute joy to use wether just cruising around or blasting along one of my favourite roads.
On the steering, I think there is a massive difference for the worse if Power Steering Plus is fitted, without it the steering at low speeds is much better with decent feel - with PSP it's far too light and no feel. This may not suit everyone, but I too believe no car is perfect in all circumstances and to me the 981 BGTS is an absolute joy to use wether just cruising around or blasting along one of my favourite roads.
Twinfan said:
^ yep, I agree.
It's all down to your own preference. I'm not that bothered about the lack of feel compared to a hydraulic system. It feels good enough to me, and the other qualities of the 981 are more important to me over any other alternatives.
Bit of a thread resurrection here chaps.It's all down to your own preference. I'm not that bothered about the lack of feel compared to a hydraulic system. It feels good enough to me, and the other qualities of the 981 are more important to me over any other alternatives.
I recently swapped out my early 981 CS for a very late 2016 981CGTS. The difference was very noticeable, going from 19" rims to 20" rims, both cars with Michelin P4s's.
Much better grip and steering feel on the 20 inch rims. Both cars with PASM. I then had a geo setup done at RPM Technik pending a visit to Spa. Steering feel better again.
Now have just fitted an X73 rear roll bar (P/N ending in 14) so not the stiffest available. I also fitted the 718 anti roll bar brace, a 10 minute job. Turn in is superb. I would guess this is why people think steering feel is so much better on the 718. Stiffer roll bars taking a bit of slop out of the system.
I've gone totally the other way. Started using my 18 inch winters for summer. Bought the slimmest tyres I could find with the lowest load rating. Got 215 45 18 fronts and then matched with some +30 rears. Chose Conti Premium Contact 6 and they're brilliant. Cars rides like a Rolls Royce [standard passive dampers] but turns in as well as I could ever want.
Wollemi said:
Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was.
I fully agree on this.I had a 981 GTS full spec.
And it had the worst steering I've ever encountered.
Numb, inert; YES !
A very slow initial steering response and a far too great self centering force to it.
I always had the idea to fight the steering forces while cornering.
It made me crazy, and I sold the car only after 14 months, I couldn `t become friends with that kind of steering, as much as I did like the car and how beautiful it was specced.
I test drove later on a 981 Gt4, and that steering convinced me more, the difference was night and day!
Later I bought a 718 GT4, far more better steering to the 981 series
Now I've a GT4RS on order, and have no doubts about steering what so ever.
Romo said:
I fully agree on this.
I had a 981 GTS full spec.
And it had the worst steering I've ever encountered.
Numb, inert; YES !
A very slow initial steering response and a far too great self centering force to it.
I always had the idea to fight the steering forces while cornering.
It made me crazy, and I sold the car only after 14 months, I couldn `t become friends with that kind of steering, as much as I did like the car and how beautiful it was specced.
I test drove later on a 981 Gt4, and that steering convinced me more, the difference was night and day!
Later I bought a 718 GT4, far more better steering to the 981 series
Now I've a GT4RS on order, and have no doubts about steering what so ever.
What was your geometry setup like on the GTS? Presumably you had it checked out as just a bit out of spec will make it feel horrible...I had a 981 GTS full spec.
And it had the worst steering I've ever encountered.
Numb, inert; YES !
A very slow initial steering response and a far too great self centering force to it.
I always had the idea to fight the steering forces while cornering.
It made me crazy, and I sold the car only after 14 months, I couldn `t become friends with that kind of steering, as much as I did like the car and how beautiful it was specced.
I test drove later on a 981 Gt4, and that steering convinced me more, the difference was night and day!
Later I bought a 718 GT4, far more better steering to the 981 series
Now I've a GT4RS on order, and have no doubts about steering what so ever.
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