718 GT4 - Have I lost the plot?

[Si-3PO]

Schmed said:

Interesting how close the performance stats are on the base 718 vs GT4

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/famb9ubpcc1b

Do you really want a slower 0-60 time ?

I wish somebody had told me my 718 was faster than a 981 before I downgraded.

[gtsralph]

n4aat said:

I think there is something wrong with those 718 stats.

2.0L Base 718 with 300PS v GT4 with 385PS

[boxsey]

Twinfan said:

As for the GT4 being too special to daily drive I disagree. it's a Cayman like any other in that regard, albeit one with lower and firmer suspension that likes to burn through petrol even more rapidly.

I was amazed at how road compliant my GT4 was when I first got it. Even more compliant than my previous Cayman R. But I agree with what someone else posted about the clutch. It's way too heavy to be constantly stuck in traffic. Also agree that the front is too low for daily use, so you have to start planning your routes to avoid speed bumps and the like. And I wouldn't want to leave it anywhere for more than a few minutes because it attracts so much attention. I'm made up with it as a special day and track day car but I would find it a PITA for daily use.

[JayK12]

Si-3PO said:

Schmed said:

Interesting how close the performance stats are on the base 718 vs GT4

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/famb9ubpcc1b

Do you really want a slower 0-60 time ?

I wish somebody had told me my 718 was faster than a 981 before I downgraded.

You silly man, WTF did you do that for! Selling speed for fun and more enjoyment, who would of thought! :P

[Foundthecure]

LiamH66 said:

[Original title was 718 > GT4, but the ">" got removed somehow. Meant to be "From 718 to GT4, have I lost the plot?"]

16 months into 718 Cayman (not S) ownership, first Porsche, and it's the second best car I ever owned; have absolutely loved every one of the 17.5k miles I have done in it. Somehow this weekend I got to thinking about chopping it in for a GT4, and I don't know if I completely mad thinking about a GT4 as a daily drive.

The heart goes something like: "I'll live once. The GT4 is probably the best 2 seat sports coupe ever made. I have loved the 718, but have always preferred a bigger NA engine over a little one with forced induction. If I have one chance in my life to own one, then I should take it."

The explanation to my wife: "It's the same as the car you didn't want me to buy 2 years ago, but without me checking my emails every hour for 10 months to see if there's any update on delivery. It has a different engine, but there's nothing about it that you will notice as different. It's a big investment, but it will depreciate slower than the one I have now." (Responded with weary raised eyebrows.)

What got me into thinking about it? Was checking out used 911s on the local OPC's website, and they have a GT4 in exactly the spec I would want, and weirdly enough I was thinking they'd be more expensive by now. Does anyone think the prices are going to stay down for these? Did they make too many of them? I thought they would be creeping up a bit more by now.

Last of all, 718 was 48.5k new. Pretty well mint despite 17.5k mileage (front bumper very nicely painted by Porsche approved in May, and they made a really nice job of it). Anyone want to hazard a guess at what the OPC might offer for trade in? I'm hoping somewhere near 35k to be able to do the deal. I guess some of it depends on the extras I chose, as they were really quite abnormal!

Have I lost the plot? No hardship at all in staying with what I already have.

Liam

Edited by LiamH66 on Sunday 23 September 20:44

Edited by LiamH66 on Sunday 23 September 20:46

Yes you have lost the plot. Keep the 718, and keep your £45/£50k. Unless you’re going to track it, it’s not worth the money. IMO.

[TDT]

I think at this stage now, you have to particularly want a 981 GT4 to buy one with the new car apparently around the corner.

I’d say you may as well wait, market might different in a little while and cost to change could be different also.

[LiamH66]

Looks like the deed is done, although I will be getting something else to use when it can't really be a daily (salty roads, long term car parks, etc.), but deposit paid, so I'm committed (or ought to be). Intent is as a long term keeper, so depreciation will be fairly academic if it really is a huge issue. FWIW the 718 seems to have done OK for 16 months depreciation.

If the GT4 is slower than the 718 there is something seriously wrong in the world - I think that comparison used 718 Cayman S performance figures.

The experiment should begin in earnest in a couple of weeks' time. I think it might be OK, but then I have lost the plot.

Liam

(The 718 GT4 has been just round the corner for a while now, and I think it immensely unlikely that I will be offered a slot to order one, and even after that it's likely to be a long wait. But I'm still on the list, so who knows?)

Edited by LiamH66 on Tuesday 25th September 21:36

[ravon]

I did some on-track running with 9e's re mapped 718S against my GT4, which has a larger throttle, plenum and manifolds and no doubt was left in my mind that the 9e 718 was noticeably quicker almost everywhere, but particularly accelerating out of slow and medium speed corners. Very impressive !

[Foundthecure]

LiamH66 said:

Looks like the deed is done, although I will be getting something else to use when it can't really be a daily (salty roads, long term car parks, etc.), but deposit paid, so I'm committed (or ought to be). Intent is as a long term keeper, so depreciation will be fairly academic if it really is a huge issue. FWIW the 718 seems to have done OK for 16 months depreciation.

If the GT4 is slower than the 718 there is something seriously wrong in the world - I think that comparison used 718 Cayman S performance figures.

The experiment should begin in earnest in a couple of weeks' time. I think it might be OK, but then I have lost the plot.

Liam

(The 718 GT4 has been just round the corner for a while now, and I think it immensely unlikely that I will be offered a slot to order one, and even after that it's likely to be a long wait. But I'm still on the list, so who knows?)

Edited by LiamH66 on Tuesday 25th September 21:36

May I ask how much the 718 depreciated, I know some would like to think it’s “epic”, but I think they’ll hold up ok??

[Olivera]

ravon said:

I did some on-track running with 9e's re mapped 718S against my GT4, which has a larger throttle, plenum and manifolds and no doubt was left in my mind that the 9e 718 was noticeably quicker almost everywhere, but particularly accelerating out of slow and medium speed corners. Very impressive !

The GT4 is certainly a great car, but it's straight line speed out of slow corners is hampered by the intergalactic standard gearing.

[James McScotty]

981 GTS is the sweet spot for off-track and on-road use. But I would say that.
718 sounds and drives real bad.

[LiamH66]

Foundthecure said:

May I ask how much the 718 depreciated, I know some would like to think it’s “epic”, but I think they’ll hold up ok??

12.5k, possibly better, we're working out the finer detail. A friend's AMG GT S seems to have fared far less well despite much lower mileage. I'm neither surprised not disappointed.

Liam

[LiamH66]

James McScotty said:

981 GTS is the sweet spot for off-track and on-road use. But I would say that.
718 sounds and drives real bad.

No, the 718 is an awesome 2.0 litre turbo car, and drives brilliantly as one. Expecting it to be other is setting the bar unrealistically high.

Liam

[anonymous-user]

James McScotty said:

718 sounds and drives real bad.

even the most ardent hater of the engine change would concede a 718 does not drive “real bad”. You are a comedian James.

Did you test drive the GT4, Liam ?

[ravon]

Sorry, my GT4 has short gearing , the 9e 718 is quite simply harder accelerating in all situations around Silverstone GP.

[Porsche911R]

ravon said:

Sorry, my GT4 has short gearing , the 9e 718 is quite simply harder accelerating in all situations around Silverstone GP.

Torque gets lap times on like for like cars, it's that simple. it's why the 2RS is really punching with 750Nm at 2.5k revs.

[TDT]

ravon said:

Sorry, my GT4 has short gearing , the 9e 718 is quite simply harder accelerating in all situations around Silverstone GP.

Hey Tim - what solution have you used for gearing? - if you don't mind sharing.
Also when are you out next?

[Adam B]

LiamH66 said:

[
weirdly enough I was thinking they'd be more expensive by now. Does anyone think the prices are going to stay down for these? Did they make too many of them? I thought they would be creeping up a bit more by now.

What about the current economic outlook makes you think prices will rise? Near term 50% I think slow fall and then steady / sizeable 50% correction down but thats just my guess.

LiamH66 said:

[
Last of all, 718 was 48.5k new. Pretty well mint despite 17.5k mileage (front bumper very nicely painted by Porsche approved in May, and they made a really nice job of it). Anyone want to hazard a guess at what the OPC might offer for trade in? I'm hoping somewhere near 35k to be able to do the deal. I guess some of it depends on the extras I chose, as they were really quite abnormal!

offer 30, on forecourt for 40 take 38 - what were the abnormal options? They are about 45 OTR so you can't have gone too mad

Edited by Adam B on Wednesday 26th September 10:26

[JayK12]

TDT said:

ravon said:

Sorry, my GT4 has short gearing , the 9e 718 is quite simply harder accelerating in all situations around Silverstone GP.

Hey Tim - what solution have you used for gearing? - if you don't mind sharing.
Also when are you out next?

Would be interesting to see what people have done. I have seen these two options.

A shorter FD - https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-10




Shorter 3rd/4th/5th only - http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=464

We have tested re-gearing on our own project GT4 and have settled on a solution that changes 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears to shorter, closer ratios (approx difference is 14% in 3rd, 18% in 4th, and 16% in 5th). This allows shifting to 3rd gear sooner when needed, or staying in 2nd til the normal shift point and jumping to a better position in the powerband in 3rd, and staying in 3rd gear in more situations (ie mid-low speed corners) with improved acceleration. By shortening 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, you have closer ratios and stay in the powerband longer through typical top speeds, and will be able to retain the original freeway overdrive gear, since 6th gear is unchanged.

[Olivera]

JayK12 said:

We have tested re-gearing on our own project GT4 and have settled on a solution that changes 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears to shorter, closer ratios (approx difference is 14% in 3rd, 18% in 4th, and 16% in 5th).

IMO that is not fixing the problem at all. It still leaves a far too long 2nd gear (max speed 84mph). Every gear from 2 to 5 needs geared downwards.