Regrets with spec

Regrets with spec

Author
Discussion

Crispystork

182 posts

23 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
JayK12 said:
lol
agree xD

Twinfan

3,607 posts

45 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Crispystork said:
Chassis "feels" the same regardless of the gearbox. It's more about the feeling of control for me. PDK feels like i'm playing gran turismo in an arcade, not driving a car.
+1

That's why I could never own a PDK/dual clutch car.

cmoose

44,330 posts

170 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Exactly. Impact of PDK has absolutely nothing to do with chassis character.

The point is your involvement. Regardless of chassis character, one is not routinely managing the car on the limit on the road. That kind of involvement is fleeting. You're driving well within the limits of the chassis most of the time and ultimately the finer details of what you do in that regard are academic. So, with PDK, you're left with little to do, regardless of chassis character. The car just goes where you point, whatever, and it shifts perfectly every time and it does that for you.

With manual, you can make a real difference, get really involved in the slickness and smoothness of the shifts, overlap with heel and toe. Etc. That's you doing the driving, really contributing.

If one could drive hard enough to be constantly managing the chassis near the limit on the road, like one can on track, PDK would be dandy. But you can't. So it ain't. It's ghastly.

JayK12

1,655 posts

143 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
cmoose said:
Exactly. Impact of PDK has absolutely nothing to do with chassis character.

The point is your involvement. Regardless of chassis character, one is not routinely managing the car on the limit on the road. That kind of involvement is fleeting.

With manual, you can make a real difference, get really involved in the slickness and smoothness of the shifts, overlap with heel and toe. Etc. That's you doing the driving, really contributing.
Spot on. Now I've sold my GTS and purchased a Radical for track work, I'm looking at going back in time for road car. I've really enjoyed working on the Radical, on the GTS all i did was wash it and drive, odd modifications but otherwise nothing. Older road cars you can maintain, tweak and drive flat out not doing a million miles an hour, having to actually drive the car with no bullst electronics, massive tyres, huge brakes which really is all way too good for the road but not good enough for the track.


Crispystork

182 posts

23 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
JayK12 said:
Spot on. Now I've sold my GTS and purchased a Radical for track work, I'm looking at going back in time for road car. I've really enjoyed working on the Radical, on the GTS all i did was wash it and drive, odd modifications but otherwise nothing. Older road cars you can maintain, tweak and drive flat out not doing a million miles an hour, having to actually drive the car with no bullst electronics, massive tyres, huge brakes which really is all way too good for the road but not good enough for the track.
You can take any car on the track.. but a proper track car such as a radical belongs there. Road cars such as Boxsters and Caymans (not gt4) just dont belong (in my opinion). If i had the money, i'd get a lotus exige/911 gt3 for the track and an RS6 for the road.
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JayK12

1,655 posts

143 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Crispystork said:
JayK12 said:
Spot on. Now I've sold my GTS and purchased a Radical for track work, I'm looking at going back in time for road car. I've really enjoyed working on the Radical, on the GTS all i did was wash it and drive, odd modifications but otherwise nothing. Older road cars you can maintain, tweak and drive flat out not doing a million miles an hour, having to actually drive the car with no bullst electronics, massive tyres, huge brakes which really is all way too good for the road but not good enough for the track.
You can take any car on the track.. but a proper track car such as a radical belongs there. Road cars such as Boxsters and Caymans (not gt4) just dont belong (in my opinion). If i had the money, i'd get a lotus exige/911 gt3 for the track and an RS6 for the road.
I can see the Exige as an occasional track and B road blaster, GT3 just too heavy. As i came out the pits on my first day with the SR3 I was behind a GT3 RS at Silverstone GP, my warm up lap I sat with it and then he politely moved over. I bet the cost of tyres and brakes on something that weighs 1400kg isn't cheap. It was nice to see it on track as were the Mclarens and 430 Scuds etc. BTW My opinion, no right or wrong.

Crispystork

182 posts

23 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
JayK12 said:
I can see the Exige as an occasional track and B road blaster, GT3 just too heavy. As i came out the pits on my first day with the SR3 I was behind a GT3 RS at Silverstone GP, my warm up lap I sat with it and then he politely moved over. I bet the cost of tyres and brakes on something that weighs 1400kg isn't cheap. It was nice to see it on track as were the Mclarens and 430 Scuds etc. BTW My opinion, no right or wrong.
Very true. My mate takes his F type on the track and pays a fortune in tyres and brakes!

LordGrover

30,487 posts

153 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
The only things I think may be missing from my car is PASM and maybe PTV. Having not driven a car with either it's difficult to say. Sports Tech seats would have been my preferred choice too.
Wish the fecker weren't black! irked PITA to keep shiny.

JayK12

1,655 posts

143 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Crispystork said:
JayK12 said:
I can see the Exige as an occasional track and B road blaster, GT3 just too heavy. As i came out the pits on my first day with the SR3 I was behind a GT3 RS at Silverstone GP, my warm up lap I sat with it and then he politely moved over. I bet the cost of tyres and brakes on something that weighs 1400kg isn't cheap. It was nice to see it on track as were the Mclarens and 430 Scuds etc. BTW My opinion, no right or wrong.
Very true. My mate takes his F type on the track and pays a fortune in tyres and brakes!
There was a red one at Silverstone. Its nice to see all sorts of cars on track, and everyone owner feels different about what makes a track or road car. Here is a clip of my first time in my Radical and first time driving Silverstone GP over 10 years. You can see the difference in road car vs light weight track/race car. The McLaren at the end is really struggling in Maggots and i basically go to crawling pace. Obviously on the straights I can't get past, having a passenger and highest downforce setting for my first time slowed it down considerably on the straights, other SR3s breezed past me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXdc3WXVCI

gadgit

970 posts

208 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Thanks for the video JKay, that was great to watch, and impressive. It reminded me of my old 1985 Ralt rt30 F3 car. The Ralt only did 140 with the long gears but cornering was fantastic and exciting. I was not quick round tracks.
Mallory park 52 seconds.
Brands Hatch small circuit 52 seconds, I know thats not that fast but for an old car it taught me a lot about driving on race tracks, and set up.

Thankyou for posting that.

Gadgit

dreamcar

980 posts

52 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Crispystork said:
dreamcar said:
I also have a Golf GTI DSG but my Boxster GTS is PDK. The difference between the two is like night and day, with the Golf the changes are more slurred and slower, in “Normal” it changes up for too early and labours the engine, but Sport mode is like Sport Plus with the Porsche, keeps the engine revs high - the Golf desperately needs a mid range setting such as the Porsche PDK has. Moving off smartly such as a road junction it can be slow to react and pick up too, even with the stop start deactivated. VW’s DSG is by far the most disappointing part of the GTI.

I have no regrets choosing PDK in the Boxster - the only option I really regret not selecting was the 18 way adaptive sports seats plus.

Edited by dreamcar on Monday 13th May 18:43
The thing is you're talking about a golf.. which is a family sized medium priced hatchback not designed for speed, vs a sports car. The whole reason I got my golf DSG was not because it shifts well, but because its comfortable round town. Got my cockster for speed, golf for commute biggrin
I agree - but the point i’m making is how disappointed I am with Golf’s double clutch ‘box compared with the Boxster’s. Obviously I wouldn’t expect to compare a sports car with a hatchback, but VW could certainly have made a better job.

cmoose

44,330 posts

170 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
JayK12 said:
I can see the Exige as an occasional track and B road blaster, GT3 just too heavy. As i came out the pits on my first day with the SR3 I was behind a GT3 RS at Silverstone GP, my warm up lap I sat with it and then he politely moved over. I bet the cost of tyres and brakes on something that weighs 1400kg isn't cheap. It was nice to see it on track as were the Mclarens and 430 Scuds etc. BTW My opinion, no right or wrong.
Agree entirely.

Porsche GT cars perform remarkably well on track. But the modern stuff especially is ridiculously lardy for what purports to be track cars. They're all nearly 1,500kg.

I'd make an exception for the 96RS, as it's just so fab (and probably getting on for a couple of hundred kilos lighter than a modern GT car). But generally, just don't see them as track cars. Far too big and heavy. Drive any of them back to back with a real track car like a Radical and there's no comparison. For me the GT cars are very much road cars with some added track ability. Great for, say, touring Europe in comfort and getting in some laps along the way. But if I wanted an actual track car, wouldn't be on my list at all.

bcr5784

3,617 posts

86 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
JayK12 said:
cmoose said:
Exactly. Impact of PDK has absolutely nothing to do with chassis character.

The point is your involvement. Regardless of chassis character, one is not routinely managing the car on the limit on the road. That kind of involvement is fleeting.

With manual, you can make a real difference, get really involved in the slickness and smoothness of the shifts, overlap with heel and toe. Etc. That's you doing the driving, really contributing.
Spot on. Now I've sold my GTS and purchased a Radical for track work, I'm looking at going back in time for road car. I've really enjoyed working on the Radical, on the GTS all i did was wash it and drive, odd modifications but otherwise nothing. Older road cars you can maintain, tweak and drive flat out not doing a million miles an hour, having to actually drive the car with no bullst electronics, massive tyres, huge brakes which really is all way too good for the road but not good enough for the track.
Of course you are nowhere near the limit on the road but, with a throttle adjustable chassis, you are constantly managing your line with the throttle even when travelling at sane speeds. The trouble with the Cayster is that you DO feel a passenger because it just goes round corners at sensible speeds. With something like a Fiesta ST, Caterham or ... you are involved with the chassis at sane speeds. It's good to see that even McLaren have grasped the importance of the feel of the chassis at 60mph. Like I say if you have to rely on the gearbox to feel that sense of involvement the chassis is too inert .

JayK12

1,655 posts

143 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
gadgit said:
Thanks for the video JKay, that was great to watch, and impressive. It reminded me of my old 1985 Ralt rt30 F3 car. The Ralt only did 140 with the long gears but cornering was fantastic and exciting. I was not quick round tracks.
Mallory park 52 seconds.
Brands Hatch small circuit 52 seconds, I know thats not that fast but for an old car it taught me a lot about driving on race tracks, and set up.

Thankyou for posting that.

Gadgit
No problem Gadgit. I am in that boat now, learning about the car and maintaining it, setup etc.....driving it is another thing lol. If you ever fancy popping down to a track day let me know, happy to take you out etc.