GTECHNIQ paint protection - is it worth doing ?
Discussion
stebbo said:
Take it back and get them to pay for someone to do it properly
you would have to wet sand the whole car !!!As I stated above 2 BIG issues with ceramic coats, and I also said I am a fan of them so not slagging them off.
but it's all about the prep as any swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life !!
So you really need to pay for a full on £1k detail if you want a good looking ceramic coating.
and to keep it smooth and free from fallout you still have to treat it, it's not fit and forget. most top up spays have Si02 in them for ceramic coatings !!!
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
I like all these products bar snow foam which is snake oil and for effect only.
I still on a sunny day would rather wax a car by hand though, imo it's still the best finish.
Porsche911R said:
you would have to wet sand the whole car !!!
As I stated above 2 BIG issues with ceramic coats, and I also said I am a fan of them so not slagging them off.
but it's all about the prep as any swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life !!
So you really need to pay for a full on £1k detail if you want a good looking ceramic coating.
and to keep it smooth and free from fallout you still have to treat it, it's not fit and forget. most top up spays have Si02 in them for ceramic coatings !!!
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
I like all these products bar snow foam which is snake oil and for effect only.
I still on a sunny day would rather wax a car by hand though, imo it's still the best finish.
I agree ceramic coatings need to be done properly. As I stated above 2 BIG issues with ceramic coats, and I also said I am a fan of them so not slagging them off.
but it's all about the prep as any swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life !!
So you really need to pay for a full on £1k detail if you want a good looking ceramic coating.
and to keep it smooth and free from fallout you still have to treat it, it's not fit and forget. most top up spays have Si02 in them for ceramic coatings !!!
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
I like all these products bar snow foam which is snake oil and for effect only.
I still on a sunny day would rather wax a car by hand though, imo it's still the best finish.
Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 16th May 13:35
Porsche911R said:
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
.
So which one do you use? There are millions of detailing products and some are great and some are garbage. If you've found a cheap one that's good can you tell us what it is. I'd try it on one of the cars to see how it compares to my machine polished and the Gyeon coated car. I'm open minded to trying any new product that has good reports. But then I also use a good snow foam which has demonstrably made cleaning my car easier and reduced the risk of swirls.....
PaulD86 said:
So which one do you use? There are millions of detailing products and some are great and some are garbage. If you've found a cheap one that's good can you tell us what it is. I'd try it on one of the cars to see how it compares to my machine polished and the Gyeon coated car. I'm open minded to trying any new product that has good reports. But then I also use a good snow foam which has demonstrably made cleaning my car easier and reduced the risk of swirls....
Auto finesse aqua coat normally a code for special offer on it some where.but I am really a machine polish then wax person. Menzerna polish followed by Zymol concours wax.
Porsche911R said:
Auto finesse aqua coat normally a code for special offer on it some where.
but I am really a machine polish then wax person. Menzerna polish followed by Zymol concours wax.
Cheers, I'll give it a go. I've used a lot of autofinesse stuff and like some a lot. Although funnily I think their snowfoam is a bit crap but I am really a machine polish then wax person. Menzerna polish followed by Zymol concours wax.
I mainly use Menxerza polish too. Very good in my experience. I've tried a few waxes but before I used the Gyeon ceramic stuff I had moved more to synthetic sealant as (on my old Impreza) it seemed to give a better richness to the colour and lasted better. It was also very cheap - £34 for a bottle that did about 12 applications to that car, has been given to mates to do their cars and has done 2 vans with heaps still left. But expensive wax on a well prepped car can't be beaten for the ultimate gloss. Shame it lacks the durability of other products.
Porsche911R said:
you would have to wet sand the whole car !!!
As I stated above 2 BIG issues with ceramic coats, and I also said I am a fan of them so not slagging them off.
but it's all about the prep as any swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life !!
So you really need to pay for a full on £1k detail if you want a good looking ceramic coating.
and to keep it smooth and free from fallout you still have to treat it, it's not fit and forget. most top up spays have Si02 in them for ceramic coatings !!!
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
I like all these products bar snow foam which is snake oil and for effect only.
I still on a sunny day would rather wax a car by hand though, imo it's still the best finish.
Most ceramics dont need wet sanding. Only the 5yr guarantee version that have been applied correctly. If you don’t degrease for example then you can rub it off with you fingers.. slight exaggeration. As I stated above 2 BIG issues with ceramic coats, and I also said I am a fan of them so not slagging them off.
but it's all about the prep as any swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life !!
So you really need to pay for a full on £1k detail if you want a good looking ceramic coating.
and to keep it smooth and free from fallout you still have to treat it, it's not fit and forget. most top up spays have Si02 in them for ceramic coatings !!!
people asking costs of the spay for si02 they are all about a tenner, and seem to last for ever as you use so little of it hence the small price per usage.
I like all these products bar snow foam which is snake oil and for effect only.
I still on a sunny day would rather wax a car by hand though, imo it's still the best finish.
Porsche911R said:
but I am really a machine polish then wax person. Menzerna polish followed by Zymol concours wax.
Nothing wrong with that at all. I think for anyone who loves to fettle their cars it’s the best way. My favourite is FK1000p with regular use of FK425 QD. Brilliant over the summer, both cheap as chips and the FK1000p tin will last for years.
Edited by stebbo on Thursday 16th May 16:10
Agree with 911r above - the thing that really scares me about trying ceramic is that if prep isn’t perfect the ‘swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life’
I love detailing and I’ve alwyas found Zaino multi layer products to be great, neighbours probably wonder why on earth I have appeared to polish and re-polish my car 4 times in one day though. Lasts a long time and washing it becomes an easy rinse down.
I love detailing and I’ve alwyas found Zaino multi layer products to be great, neighbours probably wonder why on earth I have appeared to polish and re-polish my car 4 times in one day though. Lasts a long time and washing it becomes an easy rinse down.
PS2018 said:
Agree with 911r above - the thing that really scares me about trying ceramic is that if prep isn’t perfect the ‘swirls, marks or water marks are sealed for life’
I love detailing and I’ve alwyas found Zaino multi layer products to be great, neighbours probably wonder why on earth I have appeared to polish and re-polish my car 4 times in one day though. Lasts a long time and washing it becomes an easy rinse down.
Firstly, you don’t apply a ceramic unless you have machine polished it. I love detailing and I’ve alwyas found Zaino multi layer products to be great, neighbours probably wonder why on earth I have appeared to polish and re-polish my car 4 times in one day though. Lasts a long time and washing it becomes an easy rinse down.
Secondly, there are now products that can be used under ceramics that can fill or hide any minor defects. Car pro Essence comes to mind. https://carpro.uk.com/products/essence500
The biggest issue is the removal. You need good lighting and patience. Then you need to leave the car undercover for 48 hours to allow it to cure. It also helps to use one of the SiO2 sprays to stop water spotting in the first 7-10 days after application.
For many this is too much so stay with sealants/waxes, which are still great.
So its now been 3 weeks since my car had its IGL Kenzo ceramic coating. In that time the car has done about 200 miles some in the rain but mostly in the dry on country B roads.
This weekend was the first time washing it.
Using a pressure washer pretty much negated the need for any contact with a cloth, fly squats that have been on the car for 2 weeks and baked a bit on the nice days, just washed off with the pressure washer. (The Gtechniq ceramic on my wife's car has never been this good. Its good but fly squats do not wash off as easily)
So with just pressure washing (no car shampoo) the car came up clean. I did not use a cloth at all. I did use snowfoam to see how it would work on the coating. The answer is that I am not sure and I may need the car to be dirtier. The snowfoam did not stick as well so dwell time was reduced to about 5 mins and by them most of it has slipped off the car.
I also decided that I could experiment with drying, so I used a leaf blower rather than my usual meguiers water magnet. The blower removed most of the water droplets, with the cloth only needed on the most horizontal surfaces.
The car also had a glass treatment. In heavy rain yesterday I did not need the wipers above 40mph at 70mph the windcreen was almost totally clear (Like RainX but a 1000 times better).
So 3 weeks in I am happy.
This weekend was the first time washing it.
Using a pressure washer pretty much negated the need for any contact with a cloth, fly squats that have been on the car for 2 weeks and baked a bit on the nice days, just washed off with the pressure washer. (The Gtechniq ceramic on my wife's car has never been this good. Its good but fly squats do not wash off as easily)
So with just pressure washing (no car shampoo) the car came up clean. I did not use a cloth at all. I did use snowfoam to see how it would work on the coating. The answer is that I am not sure and I may need the car to be dirtier. The snowfoam did not stick as well so dwell time was reduced to about 5 mins and by them most of it has slipped off the car.
I also decided that I could experiment with drying, so I used a leaf blower rather than my usual meguiers water magnet. The blower removed most of the water droplets, with the cloth only needed on the most horizontal surfaces.
The car also had a glass treatment. In heavy rain yesterday I did not need the wipers above 40mph at 70mph the windcreen was almost totally clear (Like RainX but a 1000 times better).
So 3 weeks in I am happy.
Edited by blueg33 on Monday 20th May 16:09
Porsche911R said:
the issue is you still get fall out on ceramic coating so to keep them smooth and easy to wash you have to wax them or top them up with A si02 spay, other wise they feel rough. Also bird s
t still etches ceramic coats !!
a modern spray keeps your car sealed 100% of the time, every thing falls off easier than on a ceramic coat. (unless you wax/treat the ceramic coating)
also no need to snow foam or 2 bucket wash !!! another snake oil is snow foam !!! it does NOTHING bar look cool for the neighbours and make a mess on your drive/road ! for detailers it makes it look like the £1k detail is doing something !!
rain washes my car it's so slippy !
The main 2 issues with ceramic coats are,
1: it needs the upmost perfect prep as any swirl mark is sealed !! (that's where the cost is, st detail st ceramic coat finish)
2: if you get a stone chip or worse a small scratch, you will have to wet sand the coat off.
wax always will win the concours look and imo offers the best smoothing and best finish but is hassle.
modern Si02 spays seem to be the new king and what I tend to use, offers 2/3 months full beading and takes 10 seconds to do, YES 10 seconds !
SiO2 Liquid Glass is a coating of pure, safe, quartz glass or silicon dioxide (Si02).
http://www.sio2.ca/
in fact I think people with ceramic coats have to also top up with a Si02 coat wash to keep it working right and offer the beading and wash protection.
Some form of SiO2 Liquid Glass is king of washing imo today.
I think this is being a bit disingenuous unfortunately for a few reasons:t still etches ceramic coats !!a modern spray keeps your car sealed 100% of the time, every thing falls off easier than on a ceramic coat. (unless you wax/treat the ceramic coating)
also no need to snow foam or 2 bucket wash !!! another snake oil is snow foam !!! it does NOTHING bar look cool for the neighbours and make a mess on your drive/road ! for detailers it makes it look like the £1k detail is doing something !!
rain washes my car it's so slippy !
The main 2 issues with ceramic coats are,
1: it needs the upmost perfect prep as any swirl mark is sealed !! (that's where the cost is, s
t detail st ceramic coat finish)2: if you get a stone chip or worse a small scratch, you will have to wet sand the coat off.
wax always will win the concours look and imo offers the best smoothing and best finish but is hassle.
modern Si02 spays seem to be the new king and what I tend to use, offers 2/3 months full beading and takes 10 seconds to do, YES 10 seconds !
SiO2 Liquid Glass is a coating of pure, safe, quartz glass or silicon dioxide (Si02).
http://www.sio2.ca/
in fact I think people with ceramic coats have to also top up with a Si02 coat wash to keep it working right and offer the beading and wash protection.
Some form of SiO2 Liquid Glass is king of washing imo today.
1: Auto Finesse's £49 Caramics range cannot be put in the same class as a professionally applied ceramic coat. It is not the same thing.
2: All cars get fallout on them, as well as tar. However, to keep them smooth you do NOT wax them! That way you're just waxing over the fallout and tar!! Luckily, those clever people have invented fallout removers and tar removers. As ceramic coatings are inorganic, they can survive being used with these removers periodically where they would seriously harm or remove traditional waxes. You can also clay ceramic coated cars to remove other contaminants.
3: The prep is essential to every car. If you wanted to look after it and present it in the best light, you'd remove the swirls from any car. The thing to be aware of is that there is only so much clear coat on your car and polishing this removes it. Polishing this too much means you'll be left with no options in the future.
4: I'm not that convinced by this sales technique for the performance for a 2/3 month spray product.
@roscoepervis totally agree with your points 1 and 2, to your point number 3 surely for example i wouldn’t have the strength when *hand* polishing a car using regular polish, let’s say as a benchmark Autoglym SRP, to be polishing off the clear coat?
Are you referring to the use of machine polishers? Or are you talking about a very long timespan eg over many years of regular polishing ?
On your point 4 - Although it could be mistaken for an advert I don’t think 911r was trying to be a salesman or has any connection to the manufacturer - @911r: I agree with your snowfoam comments, regarding the sia2 product I would be interested when you say 10 seconds though - does that mean you just spray the panels and you don’t even need to buff it afterwards?
Are you referring to the use of machine polishers? Or are you talking about a very long timespan eg over many years of regular polishing ?
On your point 4 - Although it could be mistaken for an advert I don’t think 911r was trying to be a salesman or has any connection to the manufacturer - @911r: I agree with your snowfoam comments, regarding the sia2 product I would be interested when you say 10 seconds though - does that mean you just spray the panels and you don’t even need to buff it afterwards?
Edited by PS2018 on Monday 20th May 14:12
PS2018 said:
@roscoepervis totally agree with your points 1 and 2, to your point number 3 surely for example i wouldn’t have the strength when *hand* polishing a car using regular polish, let’s say as a benchmark Autoglym SRP, to be polishing off the clear coat?
Are you referring to the use of machine polishers? Or are you talking about a very long timespan eg over many years of regular polishing ?
On your point 4 - Although it could be mistaken for an advert I don’t think 911r was trying to be a salesman or has any connection to the manufacturer - @911r: I agree with your snowfoam comments, regarding the sia2 product I would be interested when you say 10 seconds though - does that mean you just spray the panels and you don’t even need to buff it afterwards?
you spray the panel and jet wash it off as fast as you can.Are you referring to the use of machine polishers? Or are you talking about a very long timespan eg over many years of regular polishing ?
On your point 4 - Although it could be mistaken for an advert I don’t think 911r was trying to be a salesman or has any connection to the manufacturer - @911r: I agree with your snowfoam comments, regarding the sia2 product I would be interested when you say 10 seconds though - does that mean you just spray the panels and you don’t even need to buff it afterwards?
I've been down the Gtechniq UK today
The reason for my visit was 2 things, firstly since collecting car (2nd hand) from OPC it has had swirling under the ceramic which they said wasn't really their issue (despite paying them a load of money for it to be ceramic coated which I could of paid a detailer to do a fully job) and secondly after 8 months the water "beading" wasn't so good anymore.
I spoke to Gtechniq directly as they are fairly local (23 miles away) so they invited me down for a tour and inspection.
They have done a full "decontamination" wash, I had the car washed about 3 weeks ago by my detailer, he was the one that noticed the beading was quite poor. but have since done 3,000 miles across Europe so it was fairly dirty again.
After it was fully cleaned they did a number of tests, the ceramic coating is still on the car which was the main one and when fully clean it beads "okish" but the ceramic coating isn't there to cause beading its there to protect, so they have topped it up with their C2 on top and now it beads nicely again.
Because the ceramic coating is still on the car they have concluded that the OPC didn't carry on "prep" work correctly aka have left a lot of swirls under the ceramic, so basically the car needs a full strip down, machine polish and then the ceramic/C2 reapplying. They have stated they expect all of their agents/dealers to do prep work before applying.
Quite an impressive set up at Gtechniq, the polishing room is spotless could literally eat your meal off the floor.
The reason for my visit was 2 things, firstly since collecting car (2nd hand) from OPC it has had swirling under the ceramic which they said wasn't really their issue (despite paying them a load of money for it to be ceramic coated which I could of paid a detailer to do a fully job) and secondly after 8 months the water "beading" wasn't so good anymore.
I spoke to Gtechniq directly as they are fairly local (23 miles away) so they invited me down for a tour and inspection.
They have done a full "decontamination" wash, I had the car washed about 3 weeks ago by my detailer, he was the one that noticed the beading was quite poor. but have since done 3,000 miles across Europe so it was fairly dirty again.
After it was fully cleaned they did a number of tests, the ceramic coating is still on the car which was the main one and when fully clean it beads "okish" but the ceramic coating isn't there to cause beading its there to protect, so they have topped it up with their C2 on top and now it beads nicely again.
Because the ceramic coating is still on the car they have concluded that the OPC didn't carry on "prep" work correctly aka have left a lot of swirls under the ceramic, so basically the car needs a full strip down, machine polish and then the ceramic/C2 reapplying. They have stated they expect all of their agents/dealers to do prep work before applying.
Quite an impressive set up at Gtechniq, the polishing room is spotless could literally eat your meal off the floor.
Edited by AJB88 on Monday 20th May 17:09
I would never let a dealer do a ceramic coat. Give the car to a professional detailer who makes his living doing it, not to an outfit where its a sideline.
When we had the GTecniq on my wifes car the car was delivered from the dealer to the detailer with the factory protection still on it. The dealer wasn't allowed to wash the car at all.
The detailer still had to correct the paint in 2 places on a brand new car, but nearly 3 years on the car has no swirl marks at all.
When we had the GTecniq on my wifes car the car was delivered from the dealer to the detailer with the factory protection still on it. The dealer wasn't allowed to wash the car at all.
The detailer still had to correct the paint in 2 places on a brand new car, but nearly 3 years on the car has no swirl marks at all.
Porsche911R said:
"so basically the car needs a full strip down, machine polish and then the ceramic/C2 reapplying. "
ouch and why never to have it done by a dealer ! OPC or 3rd party !
are you going to bother with it as I guess that must be a £1.5k job now.
I have always had this kind of thing done by 3rd party companies on previous cars, but decided with this being my first Porsche (I expected more from a Porsche OPC it seems) that I would let them do it!ouch and why never to have it done by a dealer ! OPC or 3rd party !
are you going to bother with it as I guess that must be a £1.5k job now.
I'm pushing the OPC to actually accept there is an issue now, especially as Gtechniq have said themselves there is and either want a refund or them to correct it (whether that be in house or it going back to Gtechniq etc)
Designer Slave said:
Dealer threw in G-techniq on my brand new 911. 4000 miles on and there are 2 tiny chips on the front. No idea if it's saved me from getting more but it does wash well.
It’s not designed to stop chips. You need ppf for that Edited by Designer Slave on Monday 20th May 18:13
In my experience, Gtechniq is an excellent product when applied correctly and definitely worth doing. I had one car done over three years ago and water is still beading off the bodywork and windscreen as well as when it was applied despite no special treatment and being subjected to Chicago weather for all that time. $700 well spent.
Cost and value is the issue. I don't see the point in buying the top of the line detail with a 7 year guarantee if the car is not being kept long term. In that case, you're better with a 3 year guarantee that costs less.
I've had my 997.2 GT3 from new and, although it's previously had a Gtechniq detail, it unsurprisingly no longer works. It's taken me all this time to realise it's a long term hold so the car is currently getting the works; paint correction, full Xpel Ultimate Plus PPF (inc roof) topped off with a ceramic coat. I kind of wish I' d done it sooner but better late than never.
Cost and value is the issue. I don't see the point in buying the top of the line detail with a 7 year guarantee if the car is not being kept long term. In that case, you're better with a 3 year guarantee that costs less.
I've had my 997.2 GT3 from new and, although it's previously had a Gtechniq detail, it unsurprisingly no longer works. It's taken me all this time to realise it's a long term hold so the car is currently getting the works; paint correction, full Xpel Ultimate Plus PPF (inc roof) topped off with a ceramic coat. I kind of wish I' d done it sooner but better late than never.
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