The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!

The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!

Author
Discussion

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
A full exhaust removing the GPFs will sort it, but you'd need a remap and a wave goodbye to your warranty. On a brand new unproven engine I think that would be madness.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
N54 said:
Do we think fitting a sharkwerks exhaust will fix the noise issue?
US cars probably won't have Particulate Filter a la Speedster - so it will be interesting to see how they sound, and if there is anything that translates into a mod or into the aftermarket.

I suspect the bigger issue will be one of how much are the filters integrated into the cars electrical and mechanical systems - so can it be technically removed?, this is not a bolt-on - it is part of the cars system.
Then there is can it/they be legally removed in markets where they have been supplied?

N54

44 posts

59 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
TDT said:
US cars probably won't have Particulate Filter a la Speedster - so it will be interesting to see how they sound, and if there is anything that translates into a mod or into the aftermarket.

I suspect the bigger issue will be one of how much are the filters integrated into the cars electrical and mechanical systems - so can it be technically removed?, this is not a bolt-on - it is part of the cars system.
Then there is can it/they be legally removed in markets where they have been supplied?
Wasn’t necessarily interested in removing the PPF.
Some BMW PPF cars have had their sound improved by fitting aftermarket PPF back exhausts.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
Yet it's the same gearbox as in your much loved 987 Spyder which you never seem to complain about scratchchin
It does much lower speeds in gear due to smaller dia wheel tyre combo.

About 74 mph vs 85 in 2nd and of course you change a bit before red line so you are in the 60's , it’s pretty good.

10 mph feels a much bigger difference than it does on paper, the 981 manual felt a dog imo on a none gt car, hence I never wanted to buy one, mated with the gen 1 eps, it’s a pretty st car to drive, not sure why the hype on here for them.

Which is a shame as it would make a nice daily driver if it steered well and had good gearing, but those 2 things for me are pretty important.

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Bobbins. 74mph in second is still as ridiculous as 85mph if you're using that argument and actually the 981 has 600rpm more per gear.

Like for like revs, the difference is minimal.

Edited by Twinfan on Sunday 21st July 17:47

av185

18,433 posts

126 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Could always try disconnecting the sports exhaust valves so they are open full time. Made the 991.1 GT3 sound better at low revs but trade off was a touch boomy at cruising speeds.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
av185 said:
Could always try disconnecting the sports exhaust valves so they are open full time. Made the 991.1 GT3 sound better at low revs but trade off was a touch boomy at cruising speeds.
991.1 GT3/RS and 991.2 GT3/RS Batch 1 don’t have Particulate filters.
Nobody has had an OPF equipped, PSE optioned NA engined Porsche delivered yet to be able to comment.

ags11

568 posts

139 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
I find my Carrera T more enjoyable than the GT4, you hit around 70 in second gear in the T.
I'd guess this is one of the main reasons it's more satisfying on the road.

av185

18,433 posts

126 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
ags11 said:
I find my Carrera T more enjoyable than the GT4, you hit around 70 in second gear in the T.
I'd guess this is one of the main reasons it's more satisfying on the road.
I agree great car ags as we mentioned before and well exceeds the sum of its parts despite what many (non owners) claim.

Debatable whether it trumps the GT4 as a road car though. Depends what you want from a road car. Probably as rapid but not as involving. Whilst the 981 GT4s gearing is obviously against it, it nevertheless has one of the best gearboxes and perfectly weighted clutches of any modern Porsche imo which unfortunately cannot be said for the T with its somewhat vague gearbox throw particularly in the upper ratios.

Reckon the T will be quite collectable in a couple of years as the last of the narrow bodied Carreras.

Just sold mine as you know.

av185

18,433 posts

126 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
TDT said:
av185 said:
Could always try disconnecting the sports exhaust valves so they are open full time. Made the 991.1 GT3 sound better at low revs but trade off was a touch boomy at cruising speeds.
991.1 GT3/RS and 991.2 GT3/RS Batch 1 don’t have Particulate filters.
Nobody has had an OPF equipped, PSE optioned NA engined Porsche delivered yet to be able to comment.
Yes I know my suggestion related to future deliveries of the 718 GT4 cars with a view to improving low speed and low rev sound.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
av185 said:
TDT said:
av185 said:
Could always try disconnecting the sports exhaust valves so they are open full time. Made the 991.1 GT3 sound better at low revs but trade off was a touch boomy at cruising speeds.
991.1 GT3/RS and 991.2 GT3/RS Batch 1 don’t have Particulate filters.
Nobody has had an OPF equipped, PSE optioned NA engined Porsche delivered yet to be able to comment.
Yes I know my suggestion related to future deliveries of the 718 GT4 cars with a view to improving low speed and low rev sound.
So that you don’t miss what I’m saying.
You suggested doing something that worked with a different generation and architecture.
The sound issue on the 718 GT4 cars is not only related to particulate filter. There is also cylinder deactivation in play where only one bank of the 6 runs at low revs. So you’re on 3 cylinders.
No valve unplugging is going to fix the sound of that.



isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
TDT said:
On the tyre/tarmac delta... one reference is in the Carfection video, AP quotes "more that 10secs quicker.. and it not alone the HP" so all that is left is aero - which is an additional 12KG at that top speed, with no drag penalty.. as which everyone here says is negligible.
Car Magazine says the aero might be worth 3 seconds of the 10 or 12.
Pistonheads vid say a large part of the time is from the tyres.

981 to 718... you can largely make up any delta with getting the same N2 tyres, and a mild tune.
There's also improvement in damping. The 991.2 is a lot more settled than the gen1 for example. That imo probably accounts for more than the supposed aero improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree a lot of that 10-ish seconds is non chassis related and gen2 improvements are always incremental but my point all along is that the exact same thing applies to the 991.2gt3 which is usually being presented as something close to the second coming compared to the gen1. It's somewhat unusual the difference in perception between the gt3 and gt4 generations....

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
TDT said:
So that you don’t miss what I’m saying.
You suggested doing something that worked with a different generation and architecture.
The sound issue on the 718 GT4 cars is not only related to particulate filter. There is also cylinder deactivation in play where only one bank of the 6 runs at low revs. So you’re on 3 cylinders.
No valve unplugging is going to fix the sound of that.
The cylinder deactivation can be turned off, so an easy fix. GPFs less so, but a full exhaust and remap would do it.

ags11

568 posts

139 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
av185 said:
I agree great car ags as we mentioned before and well exceeds the sum of its parts despite what many (non owners) claim.

Debatable whether it trumps the GT4 as a road car though. Depends what you want from a road car. Probably as rapid but not as involving. Whilst the 981 GT4s gearing is obviously against it, it nevertheless has one of the best gearboxes and perfectly weighted clutches of any modern Porsche imo which unfortunately cannot be said for the T with its somewhat vague gearbox throw particularly in the upper ratios.

Reckon the T will be quite collectable in a couple of years as the last of the narrow bodied Carreras.

Just sold mine as you know.
AV there's no doubt the GT4 is superior in many areas! Maybe it was the better "on rails" handling that left me doing silly speeds that left it a bit "uncomfortable" at times.

The "inferior" package of the T somehow keeps me more involved.
Rear seats are also a huge bonus.
Being a soft top person at heart the new spyder should have me running down to the opc, but strangely I'm not!

The T might be coveted in a few years, but it wouldn't surprise me if Porsche stuck the 4 NA in a 992 T. I can't help wondering how relevant the 3 litre turbo(apart from performance and economy) is now with the 4 NA apparently so "clean".
Have the particle filters left the turbocharged engines unnecessary from an emissions point of view?


diffstar

467 posts

192 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
TDT said:
av185 said:
TDT said:
av185 said:
Could always try disconnecting the sports exhaust valves so they are open full time. Made the 991.1 GT3 sound better at low revs but trade off was a touch boomy at cruising speeds.
991.1 GT3/RS and 991.2 GT3/RS Batch 1 don’t have Particulate filters.
Nobody has had an OPF equipped, PSE optioned NA engined Porsche delivered yet to be able to comment.
Yes I know my suggestion related to future deliveries of the 718 GT4 cars with a view to improving low speed and low rev sound.
So that you don’t miss what I’m saying.
You suggested doing something that worked with a different generation and architecture.
The sound issue on the 718 GT4 cars is not only related to particulate filter. There is also cylinder deactivation in play where only one bank of the 6 runs at low revs. So you’re on 3 cylinders.
No valve unplugging is going to fix the sound of that.
I would guess the cylinder deactivation would be turned off on sport mode like the start/stop and coasting feature on PDK.

However the 718 GT4 doesn’t have a sport button of selector on steering wheel like non GT Porsche’s.

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Cylinder deactivation is I think tied in with auto stop-start. Disabled via a centre console button.

ags11

568 posts

139 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
I think in Catchpole's chat about the new engine, it was suggested it was quite tricky with back pressure etc.
I'm no expert but you'd imagine messing with the original system would be far from straight forward..

diffstar

467 posts

192 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
Cylinder deactivation is I think tied in with auto stop-start. Disabled via a centre console button.
Oh there is a separate button for start/stop, yes this is sure to also turn off CoD

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
TDT said:
On the tyre/tarmac delta... one reference is in the Carfection video, AP quotes "more that 10secs quicker.. and it not alone the HP" so all that is left is aero - which is an additional 12KG at that top speed, with no drag penalty.. as which everyone here says is negligible.
Car Magazine says the aero might be worth 3 seconds of the 10 or 12.
Pistonheads vid say a large part of the time is from the tyres.

981 to 718... you can largely make up any delta with getting the same N2 tyres, and a mild tune.
There's also improvement in damping. The 991.2 is a lot more settled than the gen1 for example. That imo probably accounts for more than the supposed aero improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree a lot of that 10-ish seconds is non chassis related and gen2 improvements are always incremental but my point all along is that the exact same thing applies to the 991.2gt3 which is usually being presented as something close to the second coming compared to the gen1. It's somewhat unusual the difference in perception between the gt3 and gt4 generations....
Ok Yes, I can understand what you’re saying. These differences have always been of this kind of order of magnitude between .1 and .2 generations. For many...namely the reviewer that have driven the car... the margins are smaller in this situation. That’s all we have to go on right now...as everyone else ..a 981 or 718 owner will have a vested interest.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
ags11 said:
I think in Catchpole's chat about the new engine, it was suggested it was quite tricky with back pressure etc.
I'm no expert but you'd imagine messing with the original system would be far from straight forward..
Yep, Exactly.