GT4 RS breaks cover then...
Discussion
To be fair to Romo, my GT4 was awful at the rear out the factor/ OPC.
There wasn’t one wheel pointing in the same direction despite the OPC assuring me they’d performed a geo before I picked it up. I had some really scary moments.
A proper geo helped a bit but it wasn’t until I got the RSS handling kit (adjustable toe arms and camber plates) and a proper set up with a stiffer rear ARB that it now drives as it should. There’s just no adjustment in the rear of them. Think the rear stiff ARB is giving me a tiny bit of understeer on track but it’s far more predictable than the constant snap oversteer.
There wasn’t one wheel pointing in the same direction despite the OPC assuring me they’d performed a geo before I picked it up. I had some really scary moments.
A proper geo helped a bit but it wasn’t until I got the RSS handling kit (adjustable toe arms and camber plates) and a proper set up with a stiffer rear ARB that it now drives as it should. There’s just no adjustment in the rear of them. Think the rear stiff ARB is giving me a tiny bit of understeer on track but it’s far more predictable than the constant snap oversteer.
dashobbit said:
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you
When you post up a 7.15 btg and say “it’s a handful” I think others would take note ;-)
If you drive “spirited” on the road you don’t get out of second… and the standard suspension on a bumpy B road at speed isn’t what i would class as beautiful. I’d say, “hedge finder”, which is why driving such a car on the road at anything near its capability is foolish. So if you’re only going to use 30% of its capability, buy a car with 30% of its capability instead
Agree a GT4 would be “better” than a GT3 RS on the road…Know what’s better still for the road? A standard cayman. More than fast enough for the legal limit
Comparing a 3RS to a GT4 is like saying Manthey’s 24hr winning GT3 RSR car is less suitable than the 3 RS for the road … of course it is
Race cars don’t make great road cars. The closer to a race car you get, the worse it’ll be on the road…
Just been out with the car to see what the suspension is like on the MR kit. I found a road I didn’t like with the standard suspension that also saw the TC kick in as it’s bouncy…
No TC light, and the car was more ‘planted’. Firmer ride as a result of being in contact with the road more and not bouncing on springs
Camber adjustment was good. Felt more pointy but not “darty”. So all in all, I’m just pleased it’s not ruined it as a car for the road like some changes can
Will see if it translates to a quicker lap on track
I have a 991 RS and have spent a bit of time in a 981 GT4 and the 911 is just a better car in all respects. The GT4 I always felt was a bit overrated. At the time I had the 981 I had a 410 Evora which made the Porsche feel dull/lethargic and just a bit "meh". The 991RS gets ripped for being too stiff for the road but what do you want in suspension for it to be like a Mercedes? It does not like high frequency low speed bumps but for fast road the RS is extremely good. You need a bit of firmness to handle the speed of the car which obviously the 991 has quite a bit of. The rear steer really makes turn in good and I would guess there are some changes under the front suspension and steering as the 991 RS steering is amazing for an electric rack where the 981 GT4 has almost no steering feel especially at speed. The car I drove had a centre gravity setup before the "must have been a duffer" comments When you post up a 7.15 btg and say “it’s a handful” I think others would take note ;-)
If you drive “spirited” on the road you don’t get out of second… and the standard suspension on a bumpy B road at speed isn’t what i would class as beautiful. I’d say, “hedge finder”, which is why driving such a car on the road at anything near its capability is foolish. So if you’re only going to use 30% of its capability, buy a car with 30% of its capability instead
Agree a GT4 would be “better” than a GT3 RS on the road…Know what’s better still for the road? A standard cayman. More than fast enough for the legal limit
Comparing a 3RS to a GT4 is like saying Manthey’s 24hr winning GT3 RSR car is less suitable than the 3 RS for the road … of course it is
Race cars don’t make great road cars. The closer to a race car you get, the worse it’ll be on the road…
Just been out with the car to see what the suspension is like on the MR kit. I found a road I didn’t like with the standard suspension that also saw the TC kick in as it’s bouncy…
No TC light, and the car was more ‘planted’. Firmer ride as a result of being in contact with the road more and not bouncing on springs
Camber adjustment was good. Felt more pointy but not “darty”. So all in all, I’m just pleased it’s not ruined it as a car for the road like some changes can
Will see if it translates to a quicker lap on track
It was a good as you can make a GT4 and it was still nowhere near as good as an Evora 410. Fair to say the limits are higher on the GT3 its just SO quick. I find it OK at "bimble" speeds which is always the mark of a well set up car but for sure the harder you drive it the more it rewards. I dont feel eother the GT4 nor the 911 RS live up to the hype in all honesty! They are not the second coming of Christ as the motoring press would have you believe!
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you
[/quote]
Oh that was me cheeky. To be fair It was in a Spyder and not a GT4 but still geo optimized with rear arms changed. However that was not the only occasion that that particular car gave me a big scare on track. I am also far from a driving god like yourself clearly.
My beef with the chassis of that car was that it was quite unforgiving at the rear at or over the limit of grip. I certainly would not describe it as “loose” just a bit of a handful sometimes. An issue that I never had with my 981 GT4 on track which I thought was superb.
I can throw my R8 track car around with far more confidence than I ever could with that Spyder. Including kerb hopping!
Just my experience of one particular car.
Still hopeful than a 4RS might eventually come my way so that I can experiment some more with the Cayster platform. I am “on the list” should Porsche actually build any
[/quote]
Oh that was me cheeky. To be fair It was in a Spyder and not a GT4 but still geo optimized with rear arms changed. However that was not the only occasion that that particular car gave me a big scare on track. I am also far from a driving god like yourself clearly.
My beef with the chassis of that car was that it was quite unforgiving at the rear at or over the limit of grip. I certainly would not describe it as “loose” just a bit of a handful sometimes. An issue that I never had with my 981 GT4 on track which I thought was superb.
I can throw my R8 track car around with far more confidence than I ever could with that Spyder. Including kerb hopping!
Just my experience of one particular car.
Still hopeful than a 4RS might eventually come my way so that I can experiment some more with the Cayster platform. I am “on the list” should Porsche actually build any
718GT4RS said:
Who here actually has an allocation for GT4RS?
^ I haveThat's why I turned in my M2CS and 718 GT4
ETA 2023 because of al the deliverance troubles
On unstable driving feelingGT4 an Spyder.
A friend of mine had a 718 Spyder, another friend a 991.2 GT3, I my 718 GT4. On the BAB both the Spyder and I suffered the same unstable road behavior, Very unpleasant and unsafe feeling. to both of us. We discussed the matter later on, both believing the rear end is not the same quality as the 911 ones. I later on found that Rennlist had numerous discussions on the same problem.
The GT3 had no issues, a whole different rear axle set up of course.
Edited by Romo on Sunday 8th May 12:43
Edited by Romo on Sunday 8th May 12:44
Romo said:
718GT4RS said:
Who here actually has an allocation for GT4RS?
^ I haveThat's why I turned in my M2CS and 718 GT4
ETA 2023 because of al the deliverance troubles
On unstable driving feelingGT4 an Spyder.
A friend of mine had a 718 Spyder, another friend a 991.2 GT3, I my 718 GT4. On the BAB both the Spyder and I suffered the same unstable road behavior, Very unpleasant and unsafe feeling. to both of us. We discussed the matter later on, both believing the rear end is not the same quality as the 911 ones. I later on found that Rennlist had numerous discussions on the same problem.
The GT3 had no issues, a whole different rear axle set up of course.
Edited by Romo on Sunday 8th May 12:43
Edited by Romo on Sunday 8th May 12:44
I don’t think many (if any) with be MY2022 cars, so I expect we’ll start to see deliveries late Q3 and pickup significantly in 2023
bigmowley said:
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you
Oh that was me cheeky. To be fair It was in a Spyder and not a GT4 but still geo optimized with rear arms changed. However that was not the only occasion that that particular car gave me a big scare on track. I am also far from a driving god like yourself clearly.
My beef with the chassis of that car was that it was quite unforgiving at the rear at or over the limit of grip. I certainly would not describe it as “loose” just a bit of a handful sometimes. An issue that I never had with my 981 GT4 on track which I thought was superb.
I can throw my R8 track car around with far more confidence than I ever could with that Spyder. Including kerb hopping!
Just my experience of one particular car.
Still hopeful than a 4RS might eventually come my way so that I can experiment some more with the Cayster platform. I am “on the list” should Porsche actually build any
Not just you Bigmoley. The kinematics of all Caymans are heavily compromised by being a strut. They have lots of undesirable on limit geometry under load....especially when there's a load change due to a bump. You can go some way to fixing it by stopping the rear suspension from moving. In other words, if you ramp the compression damping up a lot and then stick a tonne of static camber on the rear end then you push the point at which it does weird things higher and higher. This is exactly how the Cayman GT4 race cars are set up, and is also why going stiffer on the rear bar (which would normally make oversteer worse) helps things a little bit.Oh that was me cheeky. To be fair It was in a Spyder and not a GT4 but still geo optimized with rear arms changed. However that was not the only occasion that that particular car gave me a big scare on track. I am also far from a driving god like yourself clearly.
My beef with the chassis of that car was that it was quite unforgiving at the rear at or over the limit of grip. I certainly would not describe it as “loose” just a bit of a handful sometimes. An issue that I never had with my 981 GT4 on track which I thought was superb.
I can throw my R8 track car around with far more confidence than I ever could with that Spyder. Including kerb hopping!
Just my experience of one particular car.
Still hopeful than a 4RS might eventually come my way so that I can experiment some more with the Cayster platform. I am “on the list” should Porsche actually build any
I took my 981 to Croft yesterday to do the Javelin Sprint (amusingly I got removed from the results for an as yet to be clarified reason....but it would appear to be because I had to go home before the prize giving and someone complained I turned up in a Porsche or something) and you can see the issues in the higher speed corners. I'd probably describe the lap as 'stressful'
It amused me a little when a few micro analysed the official 4RS lap record at the Ring and seemed to think that a 'better' driver would find a few seconds extra without really understanding the way in which the Cayman is compromised....but then that's what the YouTube comments section on driving videos is for right? Keyboard co drivers who could do it better!
RacerMike said:
I took my 981 to Croft yesterday to do the Javelin Sprint (amusingly I got removed from the results for an as yet to be clarified reason....but it would appear to be because I had to go home before the prize giving and someone complained I turned up in a Porsche or something) and you can see the issues in the higher speed corners. I'd probably describe the lap as 'stressful'
What did they say about Jonny Cocker and the 992 turbo S then!freedman said:
RacerMike said:
I took my 981 to Croft yesterday to do the Javelin Sprint (amusingly I got removed from the results for an as yet to be clarified reason....but it would appear to be because I had to go home before the prize giving and someone complained I turned up in a Porsche or something) and you can see the issues in the higher speed corners. I'd probably describe the lap as 'stressful'
What did they say about Jonny Cocker and the 992 turbo S then!They’ve not really responded further than to say it’s because we left early. Which I did last year as well since it was quite a drive back. Not really sure what their thinking was but feels a bit petty.
RacerMike said:
Well. GT2 RS rather than the turbo. He swapped the other week.
They’ve not really responded further than to say it’s because we left early. Which I did last year as well since it was quite a drive back. Not really sure what their thinking was but feels a bit petty.
Worse than Petty, not sure why yo have to be there at the death to have your results registeredThey’ve not really responded further than to say it’s because we left early. Which I did last year as well since it was quite a drive back. Not really sure what their thinking was but feels a bit petty.
In the MSA sprints I've done, I don't think I've ever stayed for the prize giving, but have always been declared in the results
freedman said:
RacerMike said:
Well. GT2 RS rather than the turbo. He swapped the other week.
They’ve not really responded further than to say it’s because we left early. Which I did last year as well since it was quite a drive back. Not really sure what their thinking was but feels a bit petty.
Worse than Petty, not sure why yo have to be there at the death to have your results registeredThey’ve not really responded further than to say it’s because we left early. Which I did last year as well since it was quite a drive back. Not really sure what their thinking was but feels a bit petty.
In the MSA sprints I've done, I don't think I've ever stayed for the prize giving, but have always been declared in the results
Also seems like the truth gets in the way of a good excuse too. Jonny's practice and 3 runs (1 the timing didn't work) turns into 2 runs and a burnout to show off his company....
They Cayman's stock chassis is the issue. If you lower the car for proper track work, geo goes out of whack. Under breaking and hard cornering you will feel the nose dive which corrupts geo and the car understeers (under braking it cannot use the rears sufficiently). It's something you have to work around by applying Rob Wilson's technique of making small initial (steering and braking) inputs to prep the chassis and reduce lateral roll
Dr S said:
They Cayman's stock chassis is the issue. If you lower the car for proper track work, geo goes out of whack. Under breaking and hard cornering you will feel the nose dive which corrupts geo and the car understeers (under braking it cannot use the rears sufficiently). It's something you have to work around by applying Rob Wilson's technique of making small initial (steering and braking) inputs to prep the chassis and reduce lateral roll
The product page for the Autoquest Independent Rear Suspension kit for the GT4 does a good job of explaining this all:https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09
The roll centre and toe change are the two biggest factors which combine to give the instability during cornering. It would be interesting to try and kit really, as if it made it anything like a GT3 or GT3 RS it would transform the car. The 3RS on track feels incredible and far more confidence inspiring.
av185 said:
718 Spyder RS been spotted testing.
Keep up at the back! https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The first customer cars are starting to trickle through...
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...
kmpowell said:
The first customer cars are starting to trickle through...
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...
Interesting to see it with normal, non-stylised moody photos. That racetex all over the dash i think actually looks horrendous. https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...
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