GT4 RS breaks cover then.....

GT4 RS breaks cover then.....

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Discussion

julian987R

3,361 posts

36 months

Friday 6th May
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i have deleted the link as on reflection it is one of Catchpole's worst features ever. He is not on form, the car is not on form, the whole video is rubbish.

Twinfan

9,211 posts

81 months

Saturday 7th May
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Not a great video was it?

Converting a comfort spec car to Clubsport is a good option? Are you having a laugh? Try getting a pair of 918-style bucket seats on their own, and even if you can they're going to be £10k+ surely. Add the cost of the cage and harnesses, plus fitting, and you're at what - £15k+? CS cars don't command that premium so you're better off waiting for one to come up for sale.

As TDT says, testing out an MR car on UK roads when they're track focussed is a bit strange and even the gearing changes aren't great due to the very long overdrive sixth. That particular exhaust sounds like a waste of money too - £3k and you can hardly tell the difference? Why bother then?

For regular or heavy track use, I'd say a regular PDK GT4 CS with steels and upgraded pads/fluid will get you 95%+ of the way there. You've got to really love the Cayman platform to throw £40k at it when you could get into a 991.2 GT3 for not much more...

dashobbit

57 posts

69 months

Saturday 7th May
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Twinfan said:
For regular or heavy track use, I'd say a regular PDK GT4 CS with steels and upgraded pads/fluid will get you 95%+ of the way there. You've got to really love the Cayman platform to throw £40k at it when you could get into a 991.2 GT3 for not much more...
MR kit is about £15k Inc. VAT.

I wouldn’t condone the conversion of a car but not sure the comments here understand what the kit does

It’s basically suspension and aero. The suspension can be setup however you want - you are paying for adjustability

If anyone has bought a GT4 for the road, they’ve bought the wrong car. I’ve said this before. There’s nothing about the car that is suitable for the road

Yes, you can use it on the road. But you can also use a tractor on the road. Doesn’t make it a wise decision

I’ve just had my car done and am out to the ring at the end of the month. I’ll post some comments for both road and track, but so long as the car doesn’t become totally unsuited to road use, the road element is irrelevant

I have PDK. Wouldn’t want a manual but if the PDK had shortened gearing it would probably be a positive for the car. Equally if it had the GT3 engine it would be a positive wink

TDT

3,548 posts

96 months

Saturday 7th May
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dashobbit said:
Twinfan said:
For regular or heavy track use, I'd say a regular PDK GT4 CS with steels and upgraded pads/fluid will get you 95%+ of the way there. You've got to really love the Cayman platform to throw £40k at it when you could get into a 991.2 GT3 for not much more...
MR kit is about £15k Inc. VAT.

I wouldn’t condone the conversion of a car but not sure the comments here understand what the kit does

It’s basically suspension and aero. The suspension can be setup however you want - you are paying for adjustability

If anyone has bought a GT4 for the road, they’ve bought the wrong car. I’ve said this before. There’s nothing about the car that is suitable for the road

Yes, you can use it on the road. But you can also use a tractor on the road. Doesn’t make it a wise decision

I’ve just had my car done and am out to the ring at the end of the month. I’ll post some comments for both road and track, but so long as the car doesn’t become totally unsuited to road use, the road element is irrelevant

I have PDK. Wouldn’t want a manual but if the PDK had shortened gearing it would probably be a positive for the car. Equally if it had the GT3 engine it would be a positive wink
I’ve got the MR KW kit on my 981… it’s fine on the road..it’s a performance fun car, not a commuter tool… and yep, moreover, the clue is in the product description… it’s 3-way adjustable, and you can easily access the adjusters and back of the bump or rebound with a click or two if it’s really a problem.




The actual quality of the damping and body control is far superior to, and more sophisticated than, the standard equipment, which is already excellent, but a compromise to allow a wide operating window, at the click of a button.
This is now focussed for a purpose.

Ref the 40K figure… as has been mentioned that needs to be broken down.

c20K of that is the Surface Transforms and BBS wheels…
c6K is CW&P
The rest is the MR Kit… dampers, arm package, pads, lines & aero, grilles.

The comfort -> clubsport conversion is extra I think…c10k for the seats and cage.

For a Porsche track tool that is ‘cheap’ to run… a GT4 with some tweaks (and not necessarily all of the above) is tough to beat.
Stepping into a 991.2 GT3 might not seem that different in cost on the face of it… but it is… firstly like everything else, the market is too hot imo... over list and probably priced 10-15k too much for most cars… the cars are now already 4years old and will need warranty and big service if that hasn’t already been done… and then they are much more expensive overall to run as a track tool, because of 911 tax, and the extra performance and weight.

Edited by TDT on Saturday 7th May 16:08

dashobbit

57 posts

69 months

Saturday 7th May
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TDT said:
Ref the 40K figure… as has been mentioned that needs to be broken down.

c20K of that is the Surface Transforms and BBS wheels…
c6K is CW&P
The rest is the MR Kit… dampers, arm package, pads, lines & aero, grilles.

The comfort -> clubsport conversion is extra I think…c10k for the seats and cage.

For a Porsche track tool that is ‘cheap’ to run… a GT4 with some tweaks (and not necessarily all of the above) is tough to beat.
Stepping into a 991.2 GT3 might not seem that different in cost on the face of it… but it is… firstly like everything else, the market is too hot imo... over list and probably priced 10-15k too much for most cars… the cars are now already 4years old and will need warranty and big service if that hasn’t already been done… and then they are much more expensive overall to run as a track tool, because of 911 tax, and the extra performance and weight.
Fair, thought someone was attributing 40k to the MR kit. The GT3 and GT2 MR kits are quite a bit more, but they have more to them

You can buy the MR GT4 kit in stages. You can’t do aero without the suspension though

Think suspension on its own is around 10k plus fitting, which is where the majority of spend is

Then brake pads, which I had already done. Think about 1-2k for those on the PCCBs

Rest is just aero strips and the like

The red tow straps have ruined my colour theme though… absolute disaster ;-D

TDT

3,548 posts

96 months

Saturday 7th May
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dashobbit said:
You can buy the MR GT4 kit in stages. You can’t do aero without the suspension though

Think suspension on its own is around 10k plus fitting, which is where the majority of spend is

Then brake pads, which I had already done. Think about 1-2k for those on the PCCBs
Yep.. for 981 I started with the Lower Arm Package

Then the brakes.. pads and lines

Then the damper package.

Twinfan

9,211 posts

81 months

Saturday 7th May
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I mentioned £40k as that is the price of the RPM car within the video with all the modifications, and I'm well aware that's more than just the basic kit.

Going the whole hog and recreating that car is what I was taking about, and I think very few people would do it rather than buying a GT3.



Edited by Twinfan on Saturday 7th May 16:18

TDT

3,548 posts

96 months

Saturday 7th May
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
I mentioned £40k as that is the price of the RPM car within the video with all the modifications, and I'm well aware that's more than just the basic kit.

Going the whole hog and recreating that car is what I was taking about, and I think very few people would do it rather than buying a GT3.

Edited by Twinfan on Saturday 7th May 16:18
Everyone like different things… and then there is ages old debate of buy vs build when it come to modding and changing car performance. But yes 40k is a lot of money and opens up plenty of options.

I’ve been very seriously looking at changing to GT3 and driven a few, both PDK and Manual on road and @PEC …. But apart from the straight line performance of the GT3 from that engine, which is really the only thing I want… my car is more fun and engaging to me and actually the conclusion is that, the only sensible step from my car as it is now would be into an RS product… 991 3RS or a 4RS.
Coming from a GT4, 991 feels a lot bigger, although you get used to it, but it feels less intimate and immediate. It’s all kicking off.. but much further back… my car feels like I’m wearing the engine like a backpack.
4RS…would be the perfect factory solution for me.




Edited by TDT on Saturday 7th May 16:37

Twinfan

9,211 posts

81 months

Saturday 7th May
quotequote all
Interesting T, and I suspect a lot of GT4 owners and Cayman platform lovers would feel the same.

Unfortunately, the vast majority won't get the option to buy what they would ideally like to have...

dashobbit

57 posts

69 months

Saturday 7th May
quotequote all
I can’t stand the handling characteristics of the GT3. Feels like it’s trying to kill you, needs getting used to and I strongly admire those that can pedal them round in the low / sub7 territory

I’d also love the 4RS, but wouldn’t everyone!


Romo

239 posts

93 months

Saturday 7th May
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I would say a 718 GT4 (I used to ow one, PDK full options) is better suited for the road as for the track

I know you all think I'm crazy saying the above, let me elaborate.

On the track you go full beans with the car, very high speeds, speed you'll never reach on the road, and that is for the road very good indeed.

The GT4 is on high speed not stable on the rear end !

- unstable
- jumpy, not road compliant
- steering the car high speed is more than a handful
- the car lacks confidence on high speed

I found it somewhat disappointing that a Porsche GT car, was not stable what so ever on high speed driving. For spirited B road driving on the other hand it is just beautiful.

Twinfan

9,211 posts

81 months

Saturday 7th May
quotequote all
Sounds like your car needed a thorough geometry setup. They come very poorly set up from the factory in general but the beauty of GT cars is you can tweak them.

I've tracked mine, and been in others, and they're rock solid.

Porsche guy

3,408 posts

204 months

Saturday 7th May
quotequote all
dashobbit said:
If anyone has bought a GT4 for the road, they’ve bought the wrong car. I’ve said this before. There’s nothing about the car that is suitable for the road)
Certainly don't agree with your comment, I use my GT4 as a daily, and it's fine, nowhere near a hard ride compared to my .2 GT3 RS, but we're all different of course..smile




Edited by Porsche guy on Saturday 7th May 19:34

Escy

3,294 posts

126 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Romo said:
I would say a 718 GT4 (I used to ow one, PDK full options) is better suited for the road as for the track

I know you all think I'm crazy saying the above, let me elaborate.

On the track you go full beans with the car, very high speeds, speed you'll never reach on the road, and that is for the road very good indeed.

The GT4 is on high speed not stable on the rear end !

- unstable
- jumpy, not road compliant
- steering the car high speed is more than a handful
- the car lacks confidence on high speed

I found it somewhat disappointing that a Porsche GT car, was not stable what so ever on high speed driving. For spirited B road driving on the other hand it is just beautiful.
How high is high speed?

dashobbit

57 posts

69 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Romo said:
I know you all think I'm crazy saying the above, let me elaborate.
.
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you

When you post up a 7.15 btg and say “it’s a handful” I think others would take note ;-)

If you drive “spirited” on the road you don’t get out of second… and the standard suspension on a bumpy B road at speed isn’t what i would class as beautiful. I’d say, “hedge finder”, which is why driving such a car on the road at anything near its capability is foolish. So if you’re only going to use 30% of its capability, buy a car with 30% of its capability instead

Agree a GT4 would be “better” than a GT3 RS on the road…Know what’s better still for the road? A standard cayman. More than fast enough for the legal limit

Comparing a 3RS to a GT4 is like saying Manthey’s 24hr winning GT3 RSR car is less suitable than the 3 RS for the road … of course it is

Race cars don’t make great road cars. The closer to a race car you get, the worse it’ll be on the road…

Just been out with the car to see what the suspension is like on the MR kit. I found a road I didn’t like with the standard suspension that also saw the TC kick in as it’s bouncy…

No TC light, and the car was more ‘planted’. Firmer ride as a result of being in contact with the road more and not bouncing on springs

Camber adjustment was good. Felt more pointy but not “darty”. So all in all, I’m just pleased it’s not ruined it as a car for the road like some changes can

Will see if it translates to a quicker lap on track

johnycarrera

1,912 posts

207 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
To be fair to Romo, my GT4 was awful at the rear out the factor/ OPC.

There wasn’t one wheel pointing in the same direction despite the OPC assuring me they’d performed a geo before I picked it up. I had some really scary moments.

A proper geo helped a bit but it wasn’t until I got the RSS handling kit (adjustable toe arms and camber plates) and a proper set up with a stiffer rear ARB that it now drives as it should. There’s just no adjustment in the rear of them. Think the rear stiff ARB is giving me a tiny bit of understeer on track but it’s far more predictable than the constant snap oversteer.

fridaypassion

6,300 posts

205 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
dashobbit said:
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you

When you post up a 7.15 btg and say “it’s a handful” I think others would take note ;-)

If you drive “spirited” on the road you don’t get out of second… and the standard suspension on a bumpy B road at speed isn’t what i would class as beautiful. I’d say, “hedge finder”, which is why driving such a car on the road at anything near its capability is foolish. So if you’re only going to use 30% of its capability, buy a car with 30% of its capability instead

Agree a GT4 would be “better” than a GT3 RS on the road…Know what’s better still for the road? A standard cayman. More than fast enough for the legal limit

Comparing a 3RS to a GT4 is like saying Manthey’s 24hr winning GT3 RSR car is less suitable than the 3 RS for the road … of course it is

Race cars don’t make great road cars. The closer to a race car you get, the worse it’ll be on the road…

Just been out with the car to see what the suspension is like on the MR kit. I found a road I didn’t like with the standard suspension that also saw the TC kick in as it’s bouncy…

No TC light, and the car was more ‘planted’. Firmer ride as a result of being in contact with the road more and not bouncing on springs

Camber adjustment was good. Felt more pointy but not “darty”. So all in all, I’m just pleased it’s not ruined it as a car for the road like some changes can

Will see if it translates to a quicker lap on track
I have a 991 RS and have spent a bit of time in a 981 GT4 and the 911 is just a better car in all respects. The GT4 I always felt was a bit overrated. At the time I had the 981 I had a 410 Evora which made the Porsche feel dull/lethargic and just a bit "meh". The 991RS gets ripped for being too stiff for the road but what do you want in suspension for it to be like a Mercedes? It does not like high frequency low speed bumps but for fast road the RS is extremely good. You need a bit of firmness to handle the speed of the car which obviously the 991 has quite a bit of. The rear steer really makes turn in good and I would guess there are some changes under the front suspension and steering as the 991 RS steering is amazing for an electric rack where the 981 GT4 has almost no steering feel especially at speed. The car I drove had a centre gravity setup before the "must have been a duffer" comments biggrin It was a good as you can make a GT4 and it was still nowhere near as good as an Evora 410.

Fair to say the limits are higher on the GT3 its just SO quick. I find it OK at "bimble" speeds which is always the mark of a well set up car but for sure the harder you drive it the more it rewards. I dont feel eother the GT4 nor the 911 RS live up to the hype in all honesty! They are not the second coming of Christ as the motoring press would have you believe!

dashobbit

57 posts

69 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
I guess it’s all relative - sounds like we all need to do a track day and provide some context to the comments, which is as good an excuse as any biggrin

bigmowley

1,349 posts

153 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
I don’t think anyone has ever driven the car and said the same… reminds me of someone on here who thought there was a “handling issue” because they clattered a kerb at the ring, at a point where you get air. Err yep, you will experience fishtailing if you smack a kerb at the same time the road falls away from you


[/quote]

Oh that was me cheeky. To be fair It was in a Spyder and not a GT4 but still geo optimized with rear arms changed. However that was not the only occasion that that particular car gave me a big scare on track. I am also far from a driving god like yourself clearly.

My beef with the chassis of that car was that it was quite unforgiving at the rear at or over the limit of grip. I certainly would not describe it as “loose” just a bit of a handful sometimes. An issue that I never had with my 981 GT4 on track which I thought was superb.
I can throw my R8 track car around with far more confidence than I ever could with that Spyder. Including kerb hopping!
Just my experience of one particular car.

Still hopeful than a 4RS might eventually come my way so that I can experiment some more with the Cayster platform. I am “on the list” should Porsche actually build any rolleyes

718GT4RS

88 posts

83 months

Sunday 8th May
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Who here actually has an allocation for GT4RS?