GT4 RS breaks cover then...

[Escy]

theDOCTOR said:

I do not believe someone is handing over a GT4RS/GT3 with Zero miles on it, for the hope of getting an allocation for the next GT product and the grateful thanks of the dealer principle and not receiving a decent chunk of the profits.

I agree and it baffles my people think otherwise. Why would you even want the next GT product if you just sold the last one without having even run it in?

[Schuey_911]

Escy said:

Why would you even want the next GT product if you just sold the last one without having even run it in?

From what I've gathered, these special customers will have several orders of special cars with their OPC at the same time. So they might have an order for a GT4 RS, 992 Sport Classic, 911 Dakar and a GT3 RS all at the same time. They're given first refusal by their OPC basically.

And then sometimes, some cars turn up sooner than expected or at a similar time as one of the other special cars they have ordered. Customer might have limited space at home, eg can only store 3 cars in the garage, the 4th may be an issue. So customer might say, "Ok, given the GT3 RS is arriving just 2 weeks later than the GT4 RS I've taken delivery of, I'll give you the GT4 RS back now even though I've only put 100 miles on it".

This also benefits the OPC, because they can then sell it for overs, whereas they can't with a brand new 'zero' owner car.

[TheDeadPrussian]

So perhaps some context from someone who is actually selling his car - in an attempt to bring some balance...

I bought my car in October last year - I spent a considerable amount of time spec'ing the car to my taste, spending money on the CXX stripe on the bonnet (£6,000) and the magnesium wheels etc. It's a car I had been anticipating for a very long time and I was delighted to get an allocation; borne out of significant expenditure on other cars over a sustained period of time and a commitment to others in the future...
On delivery I spent another £5,000 on full PPF.

I fully intended to keep the car (hence the CXX stripe, the wheels and PPF etc. - none of which would be 'essential' for resale, but all in cost me an additional £22k or so!).

The car went into my garage as I don't drive my sports/weekend/fun cars during the Winter (tyres and prevailing weather) and whilst laid-up various new Porsche cars were 'spied' or announced which peaked my interest - all of which I enquired about.

There is indeed a quid pro quo in the securing of future 'special cars' from Porsche and that is, in this case, if I want another, the last one goes back to the dealer. I won't lose on the car, but if I could keep it I would.

But would I have spent time and quite a lot of money on a personalised specification if I was intending to 'flip' it - no, I'd have gone without the stripe, the wheels (potentially) and the PPF!

So in summary, the car was never 'a means to an end' or bought to sell-on, but there are cars I want more and if I am to secure one, the GT4 RS is the sacrificial lamb.
I presume others will be in a similar situation. Some perhaps won't and this might be the 'big profit' they've been holding out for...and burning their bridges with the dealership.

[alscar]

theDOCTOR said:

While this may be true on theory, ive found reality to be somewhat different. Firstly i do not see most of these cars as driven, they all have pretty much Zero miles on them. My friend has sold every single one of his GT(3&4) cars back to the OPC(he has owned them all pretty much) and made around 40-50% of the overs. the last GT3 touring he made 40k, the previous Touring he make 50k, 997's he made 30K, GT4 he made 10K, 996 GT3RS he made 10K.

I do not believe someone is handing over a GT4RS/GT3 with Zero miles on it, for the hope of getting an allocation for the next GT product and the grateful thanks of the dealer principle and not receiving a decent chunk of the profits.

This all day long in reality.
Profits are also “ shared “ each time and not always on the books “ allegedly “.
Other cars are also needed to be purchased from the dealership to even get on the best friends with DP list but once on that list you are literally laughing all the way to the bank.
Porsche themselves appear not to care one jot about this.




.

[Taffy66]

TheDeadPrussian sums it up pretty well. Its very easy to spot the GT cars for sale asking 'overs' which were bought new with the full intention of flipping it from the outset. The clue is does the GT Porsche have PPF as no serial 'flipper' would waste their money on something which only the next owner( Who intends to keep it) will get benefit from.
You get no direct financial return from PPF if you sell the car quickly but is pretty much essential if you keep the car for a lengthy time and especially take it on track. I would never take delivery of a GT Porsche without PPF..

[bigmowley]

Not sure I am buying that Taffy. The PPF does adds value and saleability to a flipper in my opinion, as does a very high specification with personalization. Let’s face it if you mad enough to be prepared to spunk quarter of a million quid on a Cayman you at least want it to look vaguely like value for money.
It seems to me that the ideal car to flip is as high a spec as possible and with as few miles as possible.
There is one for sale at the moment not that far from me.

[MarkBoxSpy]

Flip it don’t flip it who cares?

I’ll be keeping mine until my last breath but I don’t begrudge anyone tilling it by playing the Porsche Game.
I sold a cayman r to a dealer who has since sold it 3 times for 8k+ more than I got. Fair play to them, excellent business model.

My dream was always the 4RS since getting my first Porsche a 5 year old 987 2.9. If I can get hold of a 992.2 2RS then I’ll die a happy man, however I won’t sacrifice my 4RS no matter what the offer.

My 2 penneth

Edited by MarkBoxSpy on Thursday 20th April 20:10

[ChrisW.]

Let's be fair.

The GT4RS is a great car even at the new list price plus selected options, but it's very poor value at some of the overs prices that are being proposed ... so is this really sustainable particularly if all GT4 production will be GT4RS ??

[GT4P]

FairPlay to the owners of Gt4RS that are enjoying and keeping with no intention of flipping but to the multiple special Porsche owners let’s be more honest here! Let’s face it a lot of specials currently sold for overs are not really that special or limited in build numbers! A 987 spyder for instance is less than 2000 build worldwide yet it never commanded stupid overs like say the 718 Spyder in fact when the 987 Spyder was new you could buy at discount! And imho it’s probably the best generation of the Boxster Spyder until the Spyder RS arrives!
If you look at prices of real specials aka 997.2RS pre 2012 before governments started printing money and artificially low interest rates there was never a crazy overs market on new cars so cars like the Gt4Rs would be trading at list or just below and more so the case Porsche might have had trouble shifting them!

[Armitage.Shanks]

Pehaps my comments were taken out of context but as others have nailed it; you agree to sell your car back to OPC for the next GT product, doing so you'll get a lot less than its open market value but the trade off is a new GT car. OPC get the opportunity to sell it for going rate and make maximum profit.

Of you sell it on the open market, get the maximum profit but getting another GT car new at list will be near impossible unless you've got a significant buying history. Or perhaps being a YouTuber.

Job jobbed.

[LamedonM]

alscar said:

theDOCTOR said:

While this may be true on theory, ive found reality to be somewhat different. Firstly i do not see most of these cars as driven, they all have pretty much Zero miles on them. My friend has sold every single one of his GT(3&4) cars back to the OPC(he has owned them all pretty much) and made around 40-50% of the overs. the last GT3 touring he made 40k, the previous Touring he make 50k, 997's he made 30K, GT4 he made 10K, 996 GT3RS he made 10K.

I do not believe someone is handing over a GT4RS/GT3 with Zero miles on it, for the hope of getting an allocation for the next GT product and the grateful thanks of the dealer principle and not receiving a decent chunk of the profits.

This all day long in reality.
Profits are also “ shared “ each time and not always on the books “ allegedly “.
Other cars are also needed to be purchased from the dealership to even get on the best friends with DP list but once on that list you are literally laughing all the way to the bank.
Porsche themselves appear not to care one jot about this.




.

Unbelievable, your friend made £140,000.00 from flipping GT cars without paying any CG tax. This is more than a lot of people would make from selling a house after many years of owning it

[Pflanzgarten]

theDOCTOR said:

997's he made 30K… 996 GT3RS he made 10K.

Either that’s fiction or he kept them a hell of a long time as those cars depreciated for years after they were built.

[bigmowley]

Pflanzgarten said:

theDOCTOR said:

997's he made 30K… 996 GT3RS he made 10K.

Either that’s fiction or he kept them a hell of a long time as those cars depreciated for years after they were built.

Agreed I didn’t make a bean on any of mine. Made up story bro.

[GT4P]

bigmowley said:

Agreed I didn’t make a bean on any of mine. Made up story bro.

As mentioned in my post new cars even like the 997.2RS were sold when fairly new for around list by an OPC and cars like 996/997 GT3 lost money pre overs madness

[theDOCTOR]

GT4P said:

bigmowley said:

Agreed I didn’t make a bean on any of mine. Made up story bro.

As mentioned in my post new cars even like the 997.2RS were sold when fairly new for around list by an OPC and cars like 996/997 GT3 lost money pre overs madness

well first of all gentlemen, i said he sold them back to the OPC, i did not say he flipped them immediately , the 997.2 and 996RS were not bought new(I believe the 996gt3rs cost him mid to late 80's with 1k on the clock), but when he sold them back to the SAME OPC he made the money mentioned. If you do not want to believe that then its hardly going to keep me awake at night.

[alscar]

Pflanzgarten said:

Either that’s fiction or he kept them a hell of a long time as those cars depreciated for years after they were built.

Depends on how quickly they were sold after taking delivery.
My PTS 997.2 GT3 was sitting in the showroom awaiting collection when the DP casually announced that he had been asked whether I would sell it there and then for £ 35k more than I had paid for it.
I declined the offer.

[theDOCTOR]

LamedonM said:

Unbelievable, your friend made £140,000.00 from flipping GT cars without paying any CG tax. This is more than a lot of people would make from selling a house after many years of owning it

To be fare he also owned a Taycan for 8 weeks and lost over 20k as no one really wanted to buy it. But yes there is definitely money to be made.

[hunter 66]

Lost 40% on my first GT3 , which is average , never bothered , if money making is the plan getting into a F40 was the way

[ChrisW.]

I paid £62k for a one year old 996 GT3RS with 3000 miles on the clock ... and sold my 996 GT3 Gen2 for £52k with 7000 miles on the clock. They had both lost money but I reckoned £10k for the RS was a fun trade ... both private sales.

No overs ... but a four month wait for a new 911 ... at the time.

[Romo]

After a 21 month waiting I collected today my GT4RS, it was a dual delivery with a friend of mine, he collected his 992 T, we didn't inform our inited friends it was a dual delivery, we only told them about the T

So the surprise was mega, we had a lot of fun, it was just superb. Some pics for impression;




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|https://thumbsnap.com/NbVEpvJX[/url]