New to the Porsche world - 718 guidance

[tedblog]

Is it big power? Other are trumping it quite easily now with smaller capacity? Im wondering whats happened to the 718 6? Dealer said Porsche were releasing it late Oct/Nov? Seems to have gone quiet on that front?

[tedblog]

Budflicker said:

Oh and depreciates like a stone in a lake.

As most cars are pcp these days its not really an issue surely? Also only becomes a problem if you want to sell it ? I think everything is dropping at the moment? You only have to look at 981 GTS's to see how they have dropped in the last 2 months , and thats not just seasonal? most in the £40k's now

Edited by tedblog on Friday 15th November 07:51

[bcr5784]

tedblog said:

As most cars are pcp these days its not really an issue surely? Also only becomes a problem if you want to sell it ? I think everything is dropping at the moment? You only have to look at 981 GTS's to see how they have dropped in the last 2 months , and thats not just seasonal? most in the £40k's now

Edited by tedblog on Friday 15th November 07:51

Generally by far the biggest cost of ownership of a car is depreciation and that will be reflected in the terms of the pcp agreement. Buying pcp may make depreciation a bit less obvious, but it's just as real.

[MPC09]

Ruddy marvellous, thanks to all those that replied.

A few observations from my end:

1. Go and drive both the entry-level and S variation of the car: it sounds like the entry-level model is not to be sniffed at.

2. Thankfully, some of you taller folks have managed to get in without issue. My second problem is that I'm a rugby second-row kind of build, so whilst height sounds like I'll be okay, squeezing them thighs under the wheel might be another thing! Trying to get in/out of a Jag F-Type R when I had one for 24 hours was not a sight to behold.

3. I appreciate the 718 may have lost some aural appeal, but coming from a 2.0T in an S3 I'm starting from a very low point in terms of audio quality!

Some follow-up questions for you folks seeing as you've been so helpful so far:

@Twinfan & Cabsi
Why is the S a bit of a no-mans land? Is it cost for the car vs. what you receive in return? Does re-sale factor into this point of view too?
Cabsi, you mentioned you preferred the 2.0 engine, why is that - does it rev a little more freely or want to be driven harder?

@Porsche718S
Thank you for the input. Any reason why I shouldn't bother with SC? Or just one of those things in terms of cost vs. benefit?
Sounds like you've really got the miles in during your time with your car - what seats did you go with in yours? On the assumption you were either Sports or Sports Plus, can you advise on why you went for one over the other?
Good luck with the 992 - that's next on the list, once other life things need to be paid for (she wouldn't be happy if I blew my half of the wedding fund on upgrading and going straight into a 992!)

@oo7ml
I have considered the 981 - and will continue to do so. I'm likely taking the 'Porsche Approved' route as my entry in the Porsche world and whilst my online searches haven't been totally expansive, I haven't spied any 981s on any recent searches - not that I can't ask the question, obviously.

@churchie2856
I'd say almost identical when thinking about Golf R vs. S3!
Great insight into the cars that you considered and what you finally went with. Did you buy new from Porsche? How did you find the experience with the staff?

As mentioned above, I'm likely going the 'Approved Porsche' route on my first entry into Porsche ownership.

Looking at price lists and specifications, am I correct in thinking that most owners put somewhere between £4-£7k in options on their cars when they were first specced? From enough online lurking, I appreciate that the Porsche options list can get out of hand pretty quickly.

And finally, whilst I appreciate depreciation is happening; I've always thought Porsches hold onto their values pretty well vs. others in the market place (and not just the GT variants). Is that a fair assumption?

Again, thanks for the input so far - very helpful.

MPC

[Twinfan]

MPC09 said:

@Twinfan & Cabsi
Why is the S a bit of a no-mans land? Is it cost for the car vs. what you receive in return? Does re-sale factor into this point of view too?
Cabsi, you mentioned you preferred the 2.0 engine, why is that - does it rev a little more freely or want to be driven harder?

...

Looking at price lists and specifications, am I correct in thinking that most owners put somewhere between £4-£7k in options on their cars when they were first specced? From enough online lurking, I appreciate that the Porsche options list can get out of hand pretty quickly.

And finally, whilst I appreciate depreciation is happening; I've always thought Porsches hold onto their values pretty well vs. others in the market place (and not just the GT variants). Is that a fair assumption?

For me, you either go Base/T and wring its neck or go for the biggest power GTS. S doesn't really have a USP other than it's a bit "more" than a Base car. GTS has alcantara and other details to make it different which the S doesn't.

Like Cabsi, I also think the 2.0 is a sweeter engine than the 2.5. It feels a bit less agricultural when you rev it, although not as smooth and awesome as a NASP F6.

Options vary, but lots of things don't come as standard in Porsches e.g. cruise control, climate control, auto wipers, heated seats etc. Due to the size of the options list each car is pretty much unique, so play close attention to what any used car does or doesn't have. Have a play on the the configurator to see what is or was available when the car was new.

As for resale value, 718s seem to be doing OK but the F4T has alienated a lot of buyers and the market overall is currently experiencing a slump. Caveat emptor

[bcr5784]

Regarding depreciation, you will find that the 718 isn't holding its value as well as 981 models -good when you are buying secondhand, not so good when selling. Low 40s will get you a year old 718 (Base) or a 4 or 5 year old low mileage 981S. . I know it's seems unfair to compare a 981S with a base 718 - but the base 718 is a very quick car and fully a match for the old 981S. You'll have to pay high 40s at least for a 981GTS.

[tedblog]

bcr5784 said:

Generally by far the biggest cost of ownership of a car is depreciation and that will be reflected in the terms of the pcp agreement. Buying pcp may make depreciation a bit less obvious, but it's just as real.

Yes it is real but depends on the company on how they want to absord the cost . Mercedes is a classic as their residuals are always on the high side as they want shift vehicles .
No point trying to sell cars with a low residual.
Of course its the extras you add on that add very little value but cost the the earth. If your handing the car back a pretty basic spec is ideal.

[JasonSteel]

tedblog said:

Budflicker said:

Oh and depreciates like a stone in a lake.

As most cars are pcp these days its not really an issue surely? Also only becomes a problem if you want to sell it ? I think everything is dropping at the moment? You only have to look at 981 GTS's to see how they have dropped in the last 2 months , and thats not just seasonal? most in the £40k's now

we're coming up to winter now so prices always drop but despite that 6 of 8 OPC 981 GTSes are still above £50k and the 2 that aren't are higher mileage (around 50k) so expected. so most very much still in the £50k's, not £40k's.

there are, however, 718 GTSes 3 yrs newer going for the same price as 981s...

[Porsche718S]

MPC09 said:

Ruddy marvellous, thanks to all those that replied.

A few observations from my end:

1. Go and drive both the entry-level and S variation of the car: it sounds like the entry-level model is not to be sniffed at.

2. Thankfully, some of you taller folks have managed to get in without issue. My second problem is that I'm a rugby second-row kind of build, so whilst height sounds like I'll be okay, squeezing them thighs under the wheel might be another thing! Trying to get in/out of a Jag F-Type R when I had one for 24 hours was not a sight to behold.

3. I appreciate the 718 may have lost some aural appeal, but coming from a 2.0T in an S3 I'm starting from a very low point in terms of audio quality!

Some follow-up questions for you folks seeing as you've been so helpful so far:

@Twinfan & Cabsi
Why is the S a bit of a no-mans land? Is it cost for the car vs. what you receive in return? Does re-sale factor into this point of view too?
Cabsi, you mentioned you preferred the 2.0 engine, why is that - does it rev a little more freely or want to be driven harder?

@Porsche718S
Thank you for the input. Any reason why I shouldn't bother with SC? Or just one of those things in terms of cost vs. benefit?
Sounds like you've really got the miles in during your time with your car - what seats did you go with in yours? On the assumption you were either Sports or Sports Plus, can you advise on why you went for one over the other?
Good luck with the 992 - that's next on the list, once other life things need to be paid for (she wouldn't be happy if I blew my half of the wedding fund on upgrading and going straight into a 992!)

@oo7ml
I have considered the 981 - and will continue to do so. I'm likely taking the 'Porsche Approved' route as my entry in the Porsche world and whilst my online searches haven't been totally expansive, I haven't spied any 981s on any recent searches - not that I can't ask the question, obviously.

@churchie2856
I'd say almost identical when thinking about Golf R vs. S3!
Great insight into the cars that you considered and what you finally went with. Did you buy new from Porsche? How did you find the experience with the staff?

As mentioned above, I'm likely going the 'Approved Porsche' route on my first entry into Porsche ownership.

Looking at price lists and specifications, am I correct in thinking that most owners put somewhere between £4-£7k in options on their cars when they were first specced? From enough online lurking, I appreciate that the Porsche options list can get out of hand pretty quickly.

And finally, whilst I appreciate depreciation is happening; I've always thought Porsches hold onto their values pretty well vs. others in the market place (and not just the GT variants). Is that a fair assumption?

Again, thanks for the input so far - very helpful.

MPC

Hiya

My view is that SC is just too expensive for what it is. It's a 'must have' option apparently, with most new buyers being convinced by the internet etc. that they must spec it...the reality is that once the novelty has worn off it won't be used 99% of the time (I know it includes the dynamic transmission mounts...unless you are going to track the car heavily you won't know they are there...and even if you did...I'm not so sure they're that apparent). I don't much care for there clock on the dash either, but that's personal preference. Its 1600 you can either save or spend on stuff that you will get more benefit/joy out of more of the time IMO. There's even less point in SC if you go manual rather than PDK.

I have the 2-way sports seats plus - have had no concerns or issues with them in all the miles I've done. I went for the plus seats as they are slightly wider at the top which suited me better. If you are not going to routinely adjust the seats save your cash (mine have ever been adjusted since they were set in all the miles I've done).

Whichever options you choose, be sure to choose what YOU like. I've driven mine as it was intended, its been a daily car, driven in all weathers all over the country, weekend blasts and the daily slog up and down motorways. If you get what you want, you can't go wrong. E.g. I chose Miami Blue, most people don't like it apparently. I think it's a fab colour and the number of positive comments I've had have significantly outweighed the few derogatory ones..so glad I didn't go for something more conservative (although I'm doing exactly this on my 992 so it looks/feels completely different).

The GTS wasn't available when I bought mine. I went for the S because it's noticeably brawnier than the base car and I preferred the torque delivery. If I were to buy again, I'd still go for the S. The GTS has a bit more power, but for me, doesn't offer anything extra other than a range of costly performance options that unless you drive everywhere like you're on a qualy lap at Spa (which people generally don't, despite what they might like to think) and didn't really offer much ownership benefit to me. Give and take road driving, day-to-day, they would be of little consequence. There is of course a feel good factor that owners benefit from, having the top of the range model with all the performance options etc and this is understandable. It's all down to what represents value to the individual.

A chap at work has just bought a base 718 PDK. funnily enough, the only option he has is SC (go figure...). It's a lovely thing and he's over the moon with it. As long as it is what YOU want, it'll be great.

[tedblog]

JasonSteel said:

we're coming up to winter now so prices always drop but despite that 6 of 8 OPC 981 GTSes are still above £50k and the 2 that aren't are higher mileage (around 50k) so expected. so most very much still in the £50k's, not £40k's.

there are, however, 718 GTSes 3 yrs newer going for the same price as 981s...

But they were over £60k .
Yes there are £40,s have a look on Autotrader not just opc. 10 i believe ?
I agree that you can get a 718 for similar money but its still a car you can order new . With new cars you can spec how you want and get the deals on a new car .
Im not saying thats the reason but it does help as soon as a car ceases production it become a different case . Example fiat 124 slow seller they fall out with mazda production ceases values go up . Just saying lol

Edited by tedblog on Friday 15th November 12:08

[churchie2856]

MPC09 said:

@churchie2856
I'd say almost identical when thinking about Golf R vs. S3!
Great insight into the cars that you considered and what you finally went with. Did you buy new from Porsche? How did you find the experience with the staff?

Given it was impossible to find a used one on 18s with PASM, yes I bought new from Porsche Colchester. I've never bought anything from them before (well I did buy a 996 coolant cap many years ago). However, they were exceptionally helpful (both Rob the sales exc and Gary the business manager) and the experience was great. They didn't judge (even when I collected the first of the many demo loan vehicles in my knackered old Forester!!), just very professional all the way. Even did me a cracking deal - who says no discounts on factory orders!!

[Porsche guy]

I've had three 718 base caymans and recently collected my base Boxster, I also had an S version to use for a couple of days, I found I could feel the engine vibration through the chassis far more than the 2lt engine on my previous 718's.

Acceleration is smoother than the S also

[Cabsi]

MPC09 said:

@Twinfan & Cabsi
Why is the S a bit of a no-mans land? Is it cost for the car vs. what you receive in return? Does re-sale factor into this point of view too?
Cabsi, you mentioned you preferred the 2.0 engine, why is that - does it rev a little more freely or want to be driven harder?


MPC

I found the Base model to rev sweeter (it's 2.0 as opposed to the S being a 2.5), but also thought the power delivery was less 'boosty'. It also made less of a boxer engine sound. Although some people love boost and the boxer sound, so you really need to try it yourself.

You can drive either engine hard, but there aren't many places on UK roads that you can do that safely.

[churchie2856]

Porsche guy said:

I've had three 718 base caymans and recently collected my base Boxster, ...

Isn't that one a year since the 718 came out ...

Were they all new? Why change so often? Did you sell each one privately, or back to the dealer? Were they all on Porsche finance?

Apologies for the questions, but having just collect mine (my first) I'm wondering why the ownership pattern. Thought clearly you like 718 Caysters :-)

[GaryF]

What about considering a base 718 with 2.0T engine and get a little mapping work done on it to pep it up further? DMS, in their evo ad are quoting 380bhp upgrades for 718 base (and 420bhp for the 718S). Something like that would be appealing and cost effective.

Warranty concern will be quoted here, but I do like to mod a bit :-)

[MPC09]

churchie2856 said:

MPC09 said:

@churchie2856
I'd say almost identical when thinking about Golf R vs. S3!
Great insight into the cars that you considered and what you finally went with. Did you buy new from Porsche? How did you find the experience with the staff?

Given it was impossible to find a used one on 18s with PASM, yes I bought new from Porsche Colchester. I've never bought anything from them before (well I did buy a 996 coolant cap many years ago). However, they were exceptionally helpful (both Rob the sales exc and Gary the business manager) and the experience was great. They didn't judge (even when I collected the first of the many demo loan vehicles in my knackered old Forester!!), just very professional all the way. Even did me a cracking deal - who says no discounts on factory orders!!

Good to hear there was no snobbery involved from the Porsche team!

I appreciate you've answered this question with your own specific specification requirements, but is there a reason to buy a new car, aside from the obvious 'spec it how you want it'? I appreciate that might be one of the more daft questions on PH right now, but I may as well cover all my bases here as I rather rushed into my previous purchase as I can be impulsive with my buys!

I've always thought the sweet spot would be going via an 'approved used' route, aiming to pick up a car 1-2 years old, getting the manufacturer warranty but letting the owner before you deal with the worst of the depreciation in those first 12/24 months. Not to mention with the exception of an outlier spec, i.e. 18s & PASM, with enough digging I'm sure there will be plenty of 718 specs to choose from in the second-hand market as it's not exactly limited production...

Or is my assumption far too simplistic? Are there discounts in the dealer network on new stock that negate some of that initial hit? FYI this car would not be a 100% cash purchase.

Interestingly, I did hear from a friend who is far closer to this world, that a few West London and surrounding dealerships are providing discounts right now to help shift some stock. Not sure how true that is, but putting it out there anyway.

[JayK12]

Your S3 engine is sweeter than the 718 engine imo. You maybe disappointed. Get yourself to a dealer and drive one, doesn't matter what demo they have, just drive it. It's the only way to see if you like something, internet speak can go on forever. Personally I liked the steering but otherwise the car just felt like a usual hot hatch with a Porsche badge on it, see how it feels for you.

I would recommend a drive in a 981 Cayman or Boxster GTS also, or a highly spec'd S, they seem a cream of the crop, well spec'd come with the right bits and are a really fun car to drive, mainly because of the engine differences, it changes the character of the car, however you may prefer the boosted F4.

Try out both and see what you think

[718CS]

I have had a 718 Cayman S for a couple of years now. I preferred the drive of the S over the base but admittedly only drove a base Boxster with manual Vs a Cayman S with PDK.

We've got a fairly hefty spec, SC, PDK, PASM, LEDs but have been over the moon with it. Shame to see it go but we are changing it in the next week or so for a new Spyder. We've done just over 30,000 miles in it, never skipped a beat, even long trips down to Italy and were comfortable in the sports plus seats. (I'm also built like a front row and find it comfortable to get in and out of).

Wouldn't be changing it if we hadn't got the Spyder. We also have a BMW M2, but we both enjoy our time in the Cayman more. I think the M2 is a touch quicker to my mind but is also a bit more of a handful on the slippery roads around where we live.

Keep your eye on the approved list for my Cayman coming through, will likely be close to £40k - took a hit on depreciation.

[flyer0]

Just to throw in my bit as a718S Boxster owner.
In my opinion the SC was a must have on my 718 when I found out about its sport PSM function, which previous cars like the 981 didn’t have, which basically delays the traction control for 1 second so let’s you drive with a little bit of oversteer but not enough to get too far towards an accident, honestly it’s real fun. The other bits weren’t so important as far as I was concerned even though I’d had SC on my 981.
I drove quite a few 718 in both Cayman and Boxster forms and found the Cayman a little bit noisy inside which I found wearing after a while.
One thing which really changed the driving feel of the car for me is the GT steering wheel, it’s a slightly smaller diameter and altered the whole feel and makes the car feel more nimble, cars I drove without it just didn’t feel so sporty.
If you get the chance try a session at the Porsche Experience at Silverstone because they have cars in almost every spec and the instructors will let you drive the cars to get what you really want out of them.

[bcr5784]

flyer0 said:

.
I drove quite a few 718 in both Cayman and Boxster forms and found the Cayman a little bit noisy inside which I found wearing after a while.
One thing which really changed the driving feel of the car for me is the GT steering wheel, it’s a slightly smaller diameter and altered the whole feel and makes the car feel more nimble, cars I drove without it just didn’t feel so sporty.
If you get the chance try a session at the Porsche Experience at Silverstone because they have cars in almost every spec and the instructors will let you drive the cars to get what you really want out of them.

Agree with most of that - both subjectively and objectively (based upon road tests) the Boxster is a bit quieter than the Cayman (counter intuitive, I know, but the Box doesn't suffer as much tyre roar - a serious issue with the Cayman in particular. Personally I prefer Power Steering Plus - it makes the steering lighter at low speeds and makes the car feel more agile around tight roundabouts. I personally don't get this tendency of German car manufactures for heavy-ish steering.
If you buy new you will normally get session at the PEC BEFORE you have to lock down your spec. It will give you the chance to try some options and change your mind on the final spec. A big plus.

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 15th November 19:14