Must have options GTS

[mr pg]

I think every journo have always said the 718's are better in every respect, bar one.

[ClubsportStr]

Porsche911R said:

ClubsportStr said:

. Lets see what happens to 981 GTS prices when the new 6 cylinder GTS are readily available?

at half the price not a lot imo, some one with £42k to spend don't have £80k

there was a13k mile Boxster GTS with x73 for sale at £42k last week it sold in 1 day !!!

True new Gts specced circa £75k 1year old GTS 4 cylinder £55k looks the same as new model, is the engine worth £20k think not.

Anyway as all Pistonheads know all cars find there value in the market and this can be affected by different factors . Let’s see what happens

Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:17

Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:20

[Twinfan]

Porsche911R said:

3.4 to 3.8 is a bit different from 4.0 to 4.0 ?

Only in CC numbers. The GT4 gets a bhp bump in both cases, and a bit more torque in 981 form. As you well know, the chassis, aero and electronics differences are the more significant differences between a GTS and a GT4 than a few more horses or torques.

The new GTS 4.0 is closer to a 981 Spyder (albeit now with PASM) than it is to a 718 GT4 or Spyder IMHO.

[moonigan]

ClubsportStr said:

The OPC are not going to devalue the gts 4 cylinders for 2 reasons .

1. If the devalue the gts the other 4’s will be devalued and they are still be trying to sell them.
2. Every Car will be returned at the end of the PCP deals and the OPC will take a hit on every car

Just my opinion

Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:06

The OPC doesnt take the hit its VWFS that takes the hit so the OPC doesnt care. On another thread a poster has won the PCP gamble as his diesel Cayenne is now worth substantially less than the GFV because of dieselgate. The reality is though even VWFS wont feel it because the buyer has loaned the money at 6% so will have covered the gap in GFV and actual value with their interest payments and the number of cars are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

[Taffy66]

On the 981 GTS the only way to get -20mm suspension was to choose the X73 fixed dampers which is identical to the 981 Spyder's..The standard suspension was -10mm PASM as other 981s..The new 718 GTS has -20mm PASM as standard which i'm assuming is the same as the PASM on the new 718 Spyder/GT4..

[Twinfan]

Taffy66 said:

On the 981 GTS the only way to get -20mm suspension was to choose the X73 fixed dampers which is identical to the 981 Spyder's..The standard suspension was -10mm PASM as other 981s..The new 718 GTS has -20mm PASM as standard which i'm assuming is the same as the PASM on the new 718 Spyder/GT4..

It isn't. The Spyder and GT4 have -30mm GT department PASM, as did the 981 GT4 (-30mm). The suspension is unique to those models in the Cayster range.

[Lexington59]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You can lightly spec a 4.0 GTS (with say just parking sensors and cruise) to appeal to the ‘S’ must have F6 crowd for 65k. The days of 981 GTS’s changing hands for 50k plus are long gone, as they are no longer the last of the line.

[CaymanGTSM]

Just before Christmas I bought a Cayman 718 GTS (2.5 turbo) and would be interested in the new 4.0 NA but for several factors:

1) The 4.0 is manual only at the moment. In common with the majority of buyers (outside PH) I am only interested in a PDK model, my days of driving a manual in heavy traffic (or pretty much any traffic) ended with my Boxster 987 in 2012. Whilst a manual only car it will remain a niche purchase (outside PH).

2) I got my Cayman 718 GTS pre-reg, 3 weeks old and with 15% off list price from an OPC. With 15 miles on the clock delivered to my door it was basically new to me. It was advertised on the Porsche AUC site at the price I paid for a few weeks before I decided to go for it.

3) It is just about my perfect spec, GTSM, GTS interior in crayon, LED PDLS Plus, Gloss black Sport Design with Metallic black wheels, BOSE and all the usual climate, auto dimming, etc. along with sport PASM (-20mm) and of course PDK! The car is gorgeous and handles even better than I remembered from my 981 Boxster S, even with the awful weather and road conditions at the moment.

The engine noise, whilst unimpressive when cold at tick over, has grown on me. I have removed the soundaktor fuse to try the reduced cabin noise and the engine noise above tick over is deep and subtle, with a rather nice modulation when coming off the throttle. It doesn't scream like my V6 Audi, but I've yet to really rev it as still running it in. Having driven older 718 cars I think the 2020 GTS with the GPF has been tuned for a more subtle and smoother sound. Although clearly not the best engine it is hard to see how it can be described as the worst engine in any car ever, as in the recent video link in this topic.

My brother just swapped his 718 Boxster S for a 718 Spyder, and although the noise is preferable, it is still a little more subdued than we expected. I presume this is due to recent regs and the GPF. He really wanted a PDK but copes better with a manual than me.

Although I love the sound of a fantasy sports car as much as the next petrol head, in the real world they can be antisocial and are not always as well received by others as we might imagine.

When a PDK version is available I may be tempted to switch (after a test drive to make sure the engine is worth making the change). However a similar spec 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK will be around £80K and we all know how much they lose as soon as you drive them out of the showroom. However much my GTS loses, it will be £12K less than if I had paid full price.

A PDK GT4 may tempt me, but still not sure anyone will allow me to buy one and I think I would find the rear wing embarrassing at my age (58).

If they had face lifted the car, especially the interior, I would have been more concerned about my car "aging" suddenly, but the currently manual only engine only change would have meant me waiting another summer for a PDK car and paying a lot more money for a different engine with similar real world performance. By the time this car is available, my car will be worth perhaps £50 something K and the new one will cost around £30K more, for a one year newer car that looks identical and performs much the same.

I suspect the market for used cars like mine will not be devastated (or at least I hope so) by the new car and as ever, buying well is a big plus.

Common sense says to stick with my brand new 718 GTS and enjoy the performance, handling and looks along with the reduced depreciation over a full price GTS 4.0.

YMMV...

[Olas]

Budget for an expensive one, buy a cheap one and spend the difference modifying the cheap one to be faster than the expensive one.
Tell your wife it was the cheapest car available (technically true) and tell your mates about your new torque curve and kerb weight and torsional rigidity and optimised geometry and gearset.

Everyone’s a winner!

[ODRALLAG]

The 981 GTS will definitely come down in price especially once used 718 4.0 GTS come on the market. The 718 4.0 isn’t limited so I can see 981 GTS prices coming down to low 40’s high 30’s soon

[Twinfan]

ODRALLAG said:

The 981 GTS will definitely come down in price especially once used 718 4.0 GTS come on the market. The 718 4.0 isn’t limited so I can see 981 GTS prices coming down to low 40’s high 30’s soon

At £70k+ for a brand new GTS 4.0 with options, I personally can't see a low mile 981 GTS up for sale at an OPC for £39k, given that it's very similar except for its superior soundtrack. F4T GTSs may (will?) drop below 981s in value and prop them up too.

It's all guesswork anyway, but as always the market will decide

[Porsche911R]

Twinfan said:

Porsche911R said:

3.4 to 3.8 is a bit different from 4.0 to 4.0 ?

Only in CC numbers. The GT4 gets a bhp bump in both cases, and a bit more torque in 981 form. As you well know, the chassis, aero and electronics differences are the more significant differences between a GTS and a GT4 than a few more horses or torques.

The new GTS 4.0 is closer to a 981 Spyder (albeit now with PASM) than it is to a 718 GT4 or Spyder IMHO.

the new 4.0 is a bit restricted even more as the gearbox torque levels are low hence the on paper states for the 718 GT4 are poor.

cayman R had 273 lbs/ft
981 GTS had a touch more at 280 lb-ft

the 3.8 bought in a load more torque going from a 3.4 to a 3.8 at 308 lbs/ft but torque limited

the 4.0 is also 308 torque limited !!!! so zero gain.....

torque wins races and lap times, the new 4.0 means nothing now sadly as they did not put in a gearbox to be able to use it !!!

a tuned 3.8 will wee wee all over a 4.0 oem car as they remove the torque limit and I think you get 334 lb/ft

that's close to my 500PS gt3 at 339 lb/ft !!!

All these new cars are not even matching a 997.2 from 2009 !!! a GTS had then 408 bhp and 310 lb/ft !!!

very frustrating imo.

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 January 15:49

[Twinfan]

I couldn't give a monkeys about the on-paper stats or how modified cars perform, and I'm sure plenty of GT4 or GTS 4.0 buyers don't either.

[Porsche911R]

Twinfan said:

I couldn't give a monkeys about the on-paper stats or how modified cars perform, and I'm sure plenty of GT4 or GTS 4.0 buyers don't either.

true but the cars has a headline grabbing 4.0l engine but the gearbox cannot use it, you get that don't you ?


I know you don't track and buy on looks alone and wanted a halo car just to pose in, but a lot of these will get used on track, many people want a bit more for their money than a headline engine size figure to chat about down the pub !! , the 4.0l is pure sales nothing else sadly.
as I said no better than a 911 from 11 years ago :-(

I am hoping the RS PDK is NOT torque limited and they are working towards making something special over on paper crap to get sales after low 4 pot sales.

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 January 16:11

[Twinfan]

People aren't buying a GTS 4.0 for track work, nor do they want you trash talking their choice of new car.

[Porsche911R]

Twinfan said:

People aren't buying a GTS 4.0 for track work, nor do they want you trash talking their choice of new car.

I don't give a fo4k to be honest, they are only cars, people (you) need to get over it, I am ONLY STATING FACTS HERE ABOUTS ENGINES.

This forum is rife for slagging off Macca's and Lotus. !!! you went ga ga for the GTS, I hope it's not going to be 4 years of GT4 love in every thread.

AT least when I had my GT4 I was honest about it's flaws WHILE I OWNED IT !!!

you dismiss any flaws !! and will fight to the death to say such on cars which have flaws.

[Twinfan]

Porsche911R said:

I don't give a fo4k to be honest, they are only cars, people (you) need to get over it, I am ONLY STATING FACTS HERE ABOUTS ENGINES.

This forum is rife for slagging off Macca's and Lotus. !!! you went ga ga for the GTS, I hope it's not going to be 4 years of GT4 love in every thread.

AT least when I had my GT4 I was honest about it's flaws WHILE I OWNED IT !!!

you dismiss any flaws !! and will fight to the death to say such on cars which have flaws.

You really need to chill out. Why does it bother you so much what I do or don't do?

[JayK12]

I think you boys should just make out and get it over with.

[cc3]

CaymanGTSM said:

Just before Christmas I bought a Cayman 718 GTS (2.5 turbo) and would be interested in the new 4.0 NA but for several factors:

1) The 4.0 is manual only at the moment. In common with the majority of buyers (outside PH) I am only interested in a PDK model, my days of driving a manual in heavy traffic (or pretty much any traffic) ended with my Boxster 987 in 2012. Whilst a manual only car it will remain a niche purchase (outside PH).

2) I got my Cayman 718 GTS pre-reg, 3 weeks old and with 15% off list price from an OPC. With 15 miles on the clock delivered to my door it was basically new to me. It was advertised on the Porsche AUC site at the price I paid for a few weeks before I decided to go for it.

3) It is just about my perfect spec, GTSM, GTS interior in crayon, LED PDLS Plus, Gloss black Sport Design with Metallic black wheels, BOSE and all the usual climate, auto dimming, etc. along with sport PASM (-20mm) and of course PDK! The car is gorgeous and handles even better than I remembered from my 981 Boxster S, even with the awful weather and road conditions at the moment.

The engine noise, whilst unimpressive when cold at tick over, has grown on me. I have removed the soundaktor fuse to try the reduced cabin noise and the engine noise above tick over is deep and subtle, with a rather nice modulation when coming off the throttle. It doesn't scream like my V6 Audi, but I've yet to really rev it as still running it in. Having driven older 718 cars I think the 2020 GTS with the GPF has been tuned for a more subtle and smoother sound. Although clearly not the best engine it is hard to see how it can be described as the worst engine in any car ever, as in the recent video link in this topic.

My brother just swapped his 718 Boxster S for a 718 Spyder, and although the noise is preferable, it is still a little more subdued than we expected. I presume this is due to recent regs and the GPF. He really wanted a PDK but copes better with a manual than me.

Although I love the sound of a fantasy sports car as much as the next petrol head, in the real world they can be antisocial and are not always as well received by others as we might imagine.

When a PDK version is available I may be tempted to switch (after a test drive to make sure the engine is worth making the change). However a similar spec 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK will be around £80K and we all know how much they lose as soon as you drive them out of the showroom. However much my GTS loses, it will be £12K less than if I had paid full price.

A PDK GT4 may tempt me, but still not sure anyone will allow me to buy one and I think I would find the rear wing embarrassing at my age (58).

If they had face lifted the car, especially the interior, I would have been more concerned about my car "aging" suddenly, but the currently manual only engine only change would have meant me waiting another summer for a PDK car and paying a lot more money for a different engine with similar real world performance. By the time this car is available, my car will be worth perhaps £50 something K and the new one will cost around £30K more, for a one year newer car that looks identical and performs much the same.

I suspect the market for used cars like mine will not be devastated (or at least I hope so) by the new car and as ever, buying well is a big plus.

Common sense says to stick with my brand new 718 GTS and enjoy the performance, handling and looks along with the reduced depreciation over a full price GTS 4.0.

YMMV...

Great car may I ask did you have to take dealer finance to get that price?

[pete.g]

mr pg said:

I think every journo have always said the 718's are better in every respect, bar one.

Yes - it's what they have said about the 'bar one' that makes it difficult to see values holding up for the higher end F4T 718 such as the GTS. This month's Evo for example has Stuart Gallagher opining that the F4T in any guise 'is an abomination and an embarrassment to the internal combustion engine' and Adam Towler with 'laggy low down and pedantly {sic} linear above that, all you can really say about the 718's engine is that it gets the job done.'

It is a slap in the teeth if you own a car that journalists slate, but whatever way you dress it up, buyers read reviews and these are not good
I had a 981 GTS and would have a 718 4.0 GTS - I wouldn't have a 718 2.5 GTS. I'm only one bloke, but my position on this is not unique to me.