981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering
Discussion
Romo said:
Used to own a 981 CGTS, PDK PCCB, full spec
Lovely car , but the steering.
I hated the steering, it ruined the car completly for me.
Sold it out of pure steering frustration.
Agree so close to being a great car and very much EPS ruined the whole range from 2012 till 2015. same reason I moved the 991.1 GTS after 2months.Lovely car , but the steering.
I hated the steering, it ruined the car completly for me.
Sold it out of pure steering frustration.
My experience in a 981GTS was limited to a test drive in the Boxster version and my over riding impression was way too much pops and farts. Another massive negative which was enough for me not to buy one was the extremely vague sloppy steering in the straight ahead. This was very noticeable even when going at 80MPH on a gently curving motorway.
In complete contrast the steering feel on my RS WP is fantastic as long as you don't grasp it too firmly as it still likes to jiggle over rough roads albeit in a nice friendly way.
I'm pretty confident that the steering feel on the 718GTS 4.0 will be a vast improvement but not up to RS standards.
In complete contrast the steering feel on my RS WP is fantastic as long as you don't grasp it too firmly as it still likes to jiggle over rough roads albeit in a nice friendly way.
I'm pretty confident that the steering feel on the 718GTS 4.0 will be a vast improvement but not up to RS standards.
911R i look forward to your feed back on the 4.0gts, if the steering is same/better than 981gt4 i am in. Though the tyres will make a huge difference as i have noticed on our f56 JCW it runs 18" dunlop runflats which absolutley ruin the steering/handling. I think the gts will need a nice set of Ps4s to shine
Mmmm
Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Steve Rance said:
Mmmm
Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Thanks for the input. FWIW, the best steering feel I've experienced was in my E36 328i coupe, many years ago. Coincidentally, all that had was ABS and a LSD. I often regret selling that car.Nor sure how the 996RS and 997 GT31 are so different in your world. The 997 shares the same suspension pick up points and geometry as the 996RS. The only difference is the PASM (sporn of the devil) system.
To the OP. You are best advised to try both and decide which you prefer. I always prefer the car to gice me as much feedback as possible through the wheel, leaving me to decide what does or doesnt require my imput. The best steering that ive ever experienced in a GT car was the 996RS. Beautifully judged for my requirments. Certainly not as 911R says. But then it was a car designed without any driving aids other than ABS and a LSD - so it relied of it's chasis relaying as much information back to the driver as possible as he or she was the only imput source. With the advent of driver aiding systems, the primary imput source is generally an electronic sensor rather than the driver so steering feedback is not quite as essential as it was in non aided cars. Bear in mind that electronic steering is also 'aided' so to an extent its similar to BMW's exhaust music filtered through audio speakers. It's all a bit smoke and mirrors.
Porsche911R said:
one could say, post an opinion or a experience you have had in either and not point fingers (ie. don't post if nothing to say). Forums full of busy body posts which are also not on topic :-)
Most of that makes little sense, but suggest you Google irony David, you may find the results enlightening 
I’m posting from my phone, so I’ll respond to your other comments on the subject of steering, later
I bought a 981 spyder last week, steering feel was one of my main concerns, particularly coming from a 410 Exige, I bought the car from RPM who offered to set it up with what they described a fast road geo (I think similar to stock GT3 settings (although I may be mistaken)), this involved fitting adjustable rear arms.
It definitely turns in better than it did on the test drive, and there is a little more weighting, but it has got me wondering whether the Exige gives too much feedback, the steering dances around which can be a bit disconcerting if pushing on with a car coming the other way, where as the Spyder steering doesn’t give the same feedback, but the car stays tracking straight, which is more confidence inspiring.
It definitely turns in better than it did on the test drive, and there is a little more weighting, but it has got me wondering whether the Exige gives too much feedback, the steering dances around which can be a bit disconcerting if pushing on with a car coming the other way, where as the Spyder steering doesn’t give the same feedback, but the car stays tracking straight, which is more confidence inspiring.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I post vids and have 2 you tube channels.But don't post many as I don't track these days and you cannot post B road blat's as they are over the speed limit.
Hence no one can really post footage as you would end up in jail/.
I have a a few Anglesey vids of my GT4 etc but see no point in posting them really the days were pretty quite so it's just me lapping the track, not very exciting.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 28th October 16:16
gareth h said:
I bought a 981 spyder last week, steering feel was one of my main concerns, particularly coming from a 410 Exige, I bought the car from RPM who offered to set it up with what they described a fast road geo (I think similar to stock GT3 settings (although I may be mistaken)), this involved fitting adjustable rear arms.
It definitely turns in better than it did on the test drive, and there is a little more weighting, but it has got me wondering whether the Exige gives too much feedback, the steering dances around which can be a bit disconcerting if pushing on with a car coming the other way, where as the Spyder steering doesn’t give the same feedback, but the car stays tracking straight, which is more confidence inspiring.
I was hoping you would post as I also feel (I have owned 2 Lotus) that the modern Lotus cars with their much bigger tyres feed back too much info which is not needed, but would then be great on a smooth track at the limit..It definitely turns in better than it did on the test drive, and there is a little more weighting, but it has got me wondering whether the Exige gives too much feedback, the steering dances around which can be a bit disconcerting if pushing on with a car coming the other way, where as the Spyder steering doesn’t give the same feedback, but the car stays tracking straight, which is more confidence inspiring.
I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line at higher speeds, and if you know Lotus the 1st Elise S2 200 ended up in a ditch by quite a well know forum poster at the time. A lot of these older cars cannot cope with 100mph+ speeds on UK B roads Lotus inc.
My GT3 starts to get upset at >140mph on on the bumpy stuff and the car starts moving about too much to be safe, but a 996GT3 would have been off the road many MPH slower.
I stick by some of the 99 GT's coments and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
great car this and a one off PTS car with M400 gears etc £64k back in 2003 so quite a lot of money.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 28th October 16:30
Porsche911R said:
I was hoping you would post as I also feel (I have owned 2 Lotus) that the modern Lotus cars with their much bigger tyres feed back too much info which is not needed, but would then be great on a smooth track at the limit..
I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
I haven’t driven a Noble, but the Evora is pretty well sorted for the road, I had a 400, and had the chance to drive a 430 on Ohlins which was magical, if Lotus made a convertible Evora I would probably be in one now.I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
The Exige steering makes much more sense on a smooth circuit where there is less feedback and it is all relevant.
gareth h said:
Porsche911R said:
I was hoping you would post as I also feel (I have owned 2 Lotus) that the modern Lotus cars with their much bigger tyres feed back too much info which is not needed, but would then be great on a smooth track at the limit..
I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
I haven’t driven a Noble, but the Evora is pretty well sorted for the road, I had a 400, and had the chance to drive a 430 on Ohlins which was magical, if Lotus made a convertible Evora I would probably be in one now.I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
The Exige steering makes much more sense on a smooth circuit where there is less feedback and it is all relevant.
I test drove the 410 Evora last month and thought it to be a tad too much for a daily , also the new seats are back breaking and you sit very high and you cannot reach the 2 stalks on the steering collum, so I ruled it out as a daily. , and then not fun enough for a weekend toy when then you would pick the Exige 410. So for me the Evora is pretty flawed in too many areas for a £90k car. My GT3 does every thing much much better. I even find the Exige seats nicer to sit in than the modern Evora 410 ones !
Porsche911R said:
gareth h said:
Porsche911R said:
I was hoping you would post as I also feel (I have owned 2 Lotus) that the modern Lotus cars with their much bigger tyres feed back too much info which is not needed, but would then be great on a smooth track at the limit..
I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
I haven’t driven a Noble, but the Evora is pretty well sorted for the road, I had a 400, and had the chance to drive a 430 on Ohlins which was magical, if Lotus made a convertible Evora I would probably be in one now.I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line !
I stick by some of the 99 GT's and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
The Exige steering makes much more sense on a smooth circuit where there is less feedback and it is all relevant.
I test drove the 410 Evora last month and thought it to be a tad too much for a daily , also the new seats are back breaking and you sit very high and you cannot reach the 2 stalks on the steering collum, so I ruled it out as a daily. , and then not fun enough for a weekend toy when then you would pick the Exige 410. So for me the Evora is pretty flawed in too many areas for a £90k car. My GT3 does every thing much much better. I even find the Exige seats nicer to sit in than the modern Evora 410 ones !
Porsche911R said:
I did a vid of the early cars here in 2012 and they had a massive dead area straight ahead !
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
that looks really bad but i drove mine earlier and it's nothing like that. granted, turn in is nowhere near as quick as the current model but even turning a bit makes the car turn and doesn't go in a straight line like that.https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
are you sure there was nothing wrong with the car? mine has X73 which i think helps vs standard set up or PASM cars.
maybe it's just the very first cars (you say that was 2012) that do that?
JasonSteel said:
Porsche911R said:
I did a vid of the early cars here in 2012 and they had a massive dead area straight ahead !
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
that looks really bad but i drove mine earlier and it's nothing like that. granted, turn in is nowhere near as quick as the current model but even turning a bit makes the car turn and doesn't go in a straight line like that.https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
are you sure there was nothing wrong with the car? mine has X73 which i think helps vs standard set up or PASM cars.
maybe it's just the very first cars (you say that was 2012) that do that?
But as a lot of posters have said (and had to sell up), any 981 even the Spyder is not very nice still :-( later GTS cars were at the end of the 981 line of course so Porsche tweak along the way, but none are to GT4 standards and that's only a 2015 car.
My mates got a 2103 car and it's better than the 2012 cars and weights up nice in the bends, but I could not own it and it's dire in the wet.
Just Porsche's learning curve but it's taken too long to right the wrongs and they only are passable on the GT models.
Porsche911R said:
I was hoping you would post as I also feel (I have owned 2 Lotus) that the modern Lotus cars with their much bigger tyres feed back too much info which is not needed, but would then be great on a smooth track at the limit..
I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line at higher speeds, and if you know Lotus the 1st Elise S2 200 ended up in a ditch by quite a well know forum poster at the time. A lot of these older cars cannot cope with 100mph+ speeds on UK B roads Lotus inc.
My GT3 starts to get upset at >140mph on on the bumpy stuff and the car starts moving about too much to be safe, but a 996GT3 would have been off the road many MPH slower.
I stick by some of the 99 GT's coments and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
great car this and a one off PTS car with M400 gears etc £64k back in 2003 so quite a lot of money.
I think that you are getting a little mixed up between steering geometry and suspension geometry. The traits that you are generally discussing are suspension geometry and spring/damper related. I did think you would hate the 981 though after a Exige 410 lol !
Lot's of people think this "steering wheel dancing about is feel" it's not, it's just pointless movement and offers nothing imo and shows the car cannot handle the road really as you say it knocks you off line at higher speeds, and if you know Lotus the 1st Elise S2 200 ended up in a ditch by quite a well know forum poster at the time. A lot of these older cars cannot cope with 100mph+ speeds on UK B roads Lotus inc.
My GT3 starts to get upset at >140mph on on the bumpy stuff and the car starts moving about too much to be safe, but a 996GT3 would have been off the road many MPH slower.
I stick by some of the 99 GT's coments and I test drove Autofarms 964RS , while these cars may be great on track they make shiity B road blasters.
the 964 was just nasty on Autofarms local B roads, the next day I bought a M3 CSL.
Noble 3R's still one of the best cars for feel and steering I have owned. But that was set up for the road NOT track by Mr Noble and had no ABS or any driver aids a great drive I thought, but not a very nice engine.
great car this and a one off PTS car with M400 gears etc £64k back in 2003 so quite a lot of money.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 28th October 16:30
Porsche911R said:
yes later cars are MUCH better even in 981 form. 2012 and Porsche early cars were shocking !!!
But as a lot of posters have said (and had to sell up), any 981 even the Spyder is not very nice still :-( later GTS cars were at the end of the 981 line of course so Porsche tweak along the way, but none are to GT4 standards and that's only a 2015 car.
My mates got a 2103 car and it's better than the 2012 cars and weights up nice in the bends, but I could not own it and it's dire in the wet.
i agree the steering is definitely the 981's biggest flaw, but i wonder how much lack of feel is down to the Pirelli tyres? changing to Michelins made a huge difference for me and certainly gave me much more confidence in gauging what the car was doing, especially in the wet and cold.But as a lot of posters have said (and had to sell up), any 981 even the Spyder is not very nice still :-( later GTS cars were at the end of the 981 line of course so Porsche tweak along the way, but none are to GT4 standards and that's only a 2015 car.
My mates got a 2103 car and it's better than the 2012 cars and weights up nice in the bends, but I could not own it and it's dire in the wet.
@ Romo and Batster3 OOI were your cars Pirelli shod?
Batster3 said:
Romo said:
Used to own a 981 CGTS, PDK PCCB, full spec
Lovely car , but the steering.
I hated the steering, it ruined the car completly for me.
Sold it out of pure steering frustration.
I sold my 981 Spyder because of the steering - totally numb.Lovely car , but the steering.
I hated the steering, it ruined the car completly for me.
Sold it out of pure steering frustration.
I had a 981 GTS for a year and bit, a big reason I sold it was I had a 718 Boxster T as a loan car from OPC for a day and that made the 981 steering feel ancient. Otherwise I was perfectly happy with the 981 CGTS especially its sound, it was sensational.
It's like anything else - no compare no harm. If it's steering sensation you are after you might be better off with a 718 variant.
It's like anything else - no compare no harm. If it's steering sensation you are after you might be better off with a 718 variant.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff