Why so much negativity on here about the 981?
Discussion
I think some of it is that they (Porsche) have gone away from the classic shape of the 986 and 987. The 981/718 styling is aimed more at a younger market but younger people don't have £50k+ for a two-seater sports car so I think it riles people. M2/M240i has four seats so they can squeeze kids in and the servicing is cheaper...
Most of the negativity with regards to the 981, and specifically its steering, came from one individual, who clearly had an axe to grind (for whatever reason that may have been)
In isolation the 981 steering is just fine, it's only when driven back to back with the 987 that the later car's relative lack of weight and ultimate feel/feedback through the wheel, is exposed.
But as I've said before, us humans, are more often than not very good at adapting to changes in all walks of life, and in the automotive field that translates into an ability to swap from one car to another and in the process adapt to changes of all kinds, such as control surface weights, brake moderation, old, worn clutches, tired suspension, poor geometry adjustment etc etc
Some individuals are better than others at doing this, though I suspect the 981's steering's biggest detractor on PH wasn't, and because he wasn't, he became overly fixated on it, and whilst most just "get on with it" and learn to adapt and in the process bond with the car and enjoy ownership of it, our erstwhile and most vociferous 981 steering critic got increasingly hung up on it. He did the same with all the iterations of the 996 GT3, the 981 Spyder, the Gen 1 997 GT3's PASM suspension etc etc etc ...
And those that didn't concur with his views were subsequently labelled "polishers and poseurs" as opposed to "drivers".
Several years ago I drove a beautifully specified 981 with the Power Steering Plus option, I grant you it didn't do the steering feel any favours, but it wouldn't have stopped me from buying the car and enjoying it if it had been a car I wanted to own.
I subsequently also drove the RPM Technik CSR 981 S, and found that with the various tweaks RPMT had made to the suspension and steering, its feel and feedback was excellent.
I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ??
Not many I'd wager.
In isolation the 981 steering is just fine, it's only when driven back to back with the 987 that the later car's relative lack of weight and ultimate feel/feedback through the wheel, is exposed.
But as I've said before, us humans, are more often than not very good at adapting to changes in all walks of life, and in the automotive field that translates into an ability to swap from one car to another and in the process adapt to changes of all kinds, such as control surface weights, brake moderation, old, worn clutches, tired suspension, poor geometry adjustment etc etc
Some individuals are better than others at doing this, though I suspect the 981's steering's biggest detractor on PH wasn't, and because he wasn't, he became overly fixated on it, and whilst most just "get on with it" and learn to adapt and in the process bond with the car and enjoy ownership of it, our erstwhile and most vociferous 981 steering critic got increasingly hung up on it. He did the same with all the iterations of the 996 GT3, the 981 Spyder, the Gen 1 997 GT3's PASM suspension etc etc etc ...
And those that didn't concur with his views were subsequently labelled "polishers and poseurs" as opposed to "drivers".
Several years ago I drove a beautifully specified 981 with the Power Steering Plus option, I grant you it didn't do the steering feel any favours, but it wouldn't have stopped me from buying the car and enjoying it if it had been a car I wanted to own.
I subsequently also drove the RPM Technik CSR 981 S, and found that with the various tweaks RPMT had made to the suspension and steering, its feel and feedback was excellent.
I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ??
Not many I'd wager.
981 presumably had the first gen EPAS, I think they continued to tweak it over time and in later versions such as in the 718.
Wonder what the feedback will be like on the hydraulic Emira vs Porsche's EPAS when driven back to back...
911R along with a good few other accounts, all appear have been shut down (/banned) recently.
Wonder what the feedback will be like on the hydraulic Emira vs Porsche's EPAS when driven back to back...
911R along with a good few other accounts, all appear have been shut down (/banned) recently.
Good points made by Slippy.
I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
JayK12 said:
Good points made by Slippy.
I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
I dont think there is either I had one and was more than happy with it , that being said that was followed by a 718 and in my opinion the steering is much betterI think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
Slippydiff said:
I subsequently also drove the RPM Technik CSR 981 S, and found that with the various tweaks RPMT had made to the suspension and steering, its feel and feedback was excellent.
I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ??
Not many I'd wager.
looks like it's on Michelins?I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ??
Not many I'd wager.
no doubt all the other changes have made a big difference but the Michelins completely change the 981 handling and feel for the better.
Charlie_1 said:
JayK12 said:
Good points made by Slippy.
I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
I dont think there is either I had one and was more than happy with it , that being said that was followed by a 718 and in my opinion the steering is much betterI think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you.
I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.
JayK12 said:
I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K.
The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car.The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure.
I was worried the steering would be rubbish based on forum conjecture, especially coming from a 993. But I really have no problem with it whatsoever.
Think one of the issues is the spread of variables on modern Porsche due to all the different options (+ tyre choices)...I haven't drive a Cayman with e.g. power steering plus, pasm, pirelli tyres...but imagine the steering feel may be pretty different Vs no power steering plus, x73 suspension, mich pilot sport 4s (which is my spec).
If someone says 'the steering on a 997 carrera s' is rubbish/great, you at least know broadly that everyone has a similar spec.
Think one of the issues is the spread of variables on modern Porsche due to all the different options (+ tyre choices)...I haven't drive a Cayman with e.g. power steering plus, pasm, pirelli tyres...but imagine the steering feel may be pretty different Vs no power steering plus, x73 suspension, mich pilot sport 4s (which is my spec).
If someone says 'the steering on a 997 carrera s' is rubbish/great, you at least know broadly that everyone has a similar spec.
Twinfan said:
JayK12 said:
I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K.
The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car.The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure.
Twinfan said:
JayK12 said:
I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K.
The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car.The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure.
The GT4 is not reving like that IMHO, maybe due to particle filters?
Romo said:
The 3.4 engine revs so free, I`ve never ever experienced an enige like that, just amazing, like there`s no internal restistance at all.
The GT4 is not reving like that IMHO, maybe due to particle filters?
The GT4 is not reving like that IMHO, maybe due to particle filters?
I've kind of fixed it on my 718 GT4 with a replacement silencer and a LWFW, so it now revs and responds much more like the 3.4 does. I think the exhaust on the 4.0 is a major cork in the bottle. I'd love to open up mine even more but it would make the car no longer road legal.
I said it at the time and I still belivee it - as they came from the factory the 3.4 in the GTS is a much better engine than the strangled 3.8 in the 981 GT4. The 3.8 in the 981 Spyder was mapped better and feels GTS+.
Interesting thread I'm a big fan I even make YouTube videos dedicated to driving and enhancing it, but even I will admit the steering is the weakest link. Certainly not a deal breaker but when everything else is so good you do notice it when switching between cars.
The 718 does steer a bit better without a doubt, but did you know it uses the same rack, so it's a either a combination of the little tweaks or just change in software.
One thing I always notice straight away when driving the newer models is that the size of the steering wheel is reduced so that helps, they also stiffened the 718 at the rear so it feels more pointy.
Another suggestion is to look at upgrading the roll bars to the x73 items, the stiffness provides more communication front and rear, it's how it should have come. Moving the struts inward to increase camber at the front is also good, when cornering the steering becomes more communicative.
The 718 does steer a bit better without a doubt, but did you know it uses the same rack, so it's a either a combination of the little tweaks or just change in software.
One thing I always notice straight away when driving the newer models is that the size of the steering wheel is reduced so that helps, they also stiffened the 718 at the rear so it feels more pointy.
Another suggestion is to look at upgrading the roll bars to the x73 items, the stiffness provides more communication front and rear, it's how it should have come. Moving the struts inward to increase camber at the front is also good, when cornering the steering becomes more communicative.
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