GT4RS - Availability, what’s the latest?
Discussion
TBF - I don't think it's coming from the place of being 'elitist'... quite the opposite actually. Nobody is trying to laud it over another.
For every GT car since 2013 (991.1 GT3) people have complained that if that car was 'just list' or that we could just get an allocation or nearly new - then we'd defo buy. 100%. Easy to say when it was free or even cash positive motoring. People forget what the GT car market was like before then.
Because any financial incentive based demand has been wiped out... only people that actually want the car for owning and driving will buy one at this point. The speculators have left and so that means only 'the enthusiasts' for the model will remain... which is what we had all been bleating about, that in turn means the asking prices of the cars has come right off the boil. I/We hoped the 4RS would the RS for 'the people' (if such a thing were possible)... initially it looked like that wasn't going to happen - but events have conspired so that now it really is.
Now, how you might fund one?... cash, finance or body parts (yours or another's) is then a separate question - which has now become the main theme of this thread.
In the end - we have to keep things in perspective... we are discussing HIGHLY discretionary luxury purchases.
Nobody needs these cars. So no feelings to get hurt here.
That my 2 cents, anyway.
For every GT car since 2013 (991.1 GT3) people have complained that if that car was 'just list' or that we could just get an allocation or nearly new - then we'd defo buy. 100%. Easy to say when it was free or even cash positive motoring. People forget what the GT car market was like before then.
Because any financial incentive based demand has been wiped out... only people that actually want the car for owning and driving will buy one at this point. The speculators have left and so that means only 'the enthusiasts' for the model will remain... which is what we had all been bleating about, that in turn means the asking prices of the cars has come right off the boil. I/We hoped the 4RS would the RS for 'the people' (if such a thing were possible)... initially it looked like that wasn't going to happen - but events have conspired so that now it really is.
Now, how you might fund one?... cash, finance or body parts (yours or another's) is then a separate question - which has now become the main theme of this thread.
In the end - we have to keep things in perspective... we are discussing HIGHLY discretionary luxury purchases.
Nobody needs these cars. So no feelings to get hurt here.
That my 2 cents, anyway.
TDT said:
TBF - I don't think it's coming from the place of being 'elitist'... quite the opposite actually. Nobody is trying to laud it over another.
For every GT car since 2013 (991.1 GT3) people have complained that if that car was 'just list' or that we could just get an allocation or nearly new - then we'd defo buy. 100%. Easy to say when it was free or even cash positive motoring. People forget what the GT car market was like before then.
Because any financial incentive based demand has been wiped out... only people that actually want the car for owning and driving will buy one at this point. The speculators have left and so that means only 'the enthusiasts' for the model will remain... which is what we had all been bleating about, that in turn means the asking prices of the cars has come right off the boil. I/We hoped the 4RS would the RS for 'the people' (if such a thing were possible)... initially it looked like that wasn't going to happen - but events have conspired so that now it really is.
Now, how you might fund one?... cash, finance or body parts (yours or another's) is then a separate question - which has now become the main theme of this thread.
In the end - we have to keep things in perspective... we are discussing HIGHLY discretionary luxury purchases.
Nobody needs these cars. So no feelings to get hurt here.
That my 2 cents, anyway.
I have to agree with the above...For every GT car since 2013 (991.1 GT3) people have complained that if that car was 'just list' or that we could just get an allocation or nearly new - then we'd defo buy. 100%. Easy to say when it was free or even cash positive motoring. People forget what the GT car market was like before then.
Because any financial incentive based demand has been wiped out... only people that actually want the car for owning and driving will buy one at this point. The speculators have left and so that means only 'the enthusiasts' for the model will remain... which is what we had all been bleating about, that in turn means the asking prices of the cars has come right off the boil. I/We hoped the 4RS would the RS for 'the people' (if such a thing were possible)... initially it looked like that wasn't going to happen - but events have conspired so that now it really is.
Now, how you might fund one?... cash, finance or body parts (yours or another's) is then a separate question - which has now become the main theme of this thread.
In the end - we have to keep things in perspective... we are discussing HIGHLY discretionary luxury purchases.
Nobody needs these cars. So no feelings to get hurt here.
That my 2 cents, anyway.
The GT4RS is on my list and I've had a few Porsches over the years including my current GT4, but as with many it's frustrating if you are an enthusiast but don't have the finances or not willing to spend that time, money to get into the GT Porsche inner circle. Finally we are seeing some normality returning and it may now be possible to get your dream car at a reasonable price.
I had the very same conversation last week at my OPC when my car was in for a service.
Throttlebody said:
A big change in the Porsche GT buying landscape, it was overs, limited stock and cheap credit controlling the market and jazzing people off, now it’s expensive credit, low demand and depreciation jazzing people off. Circle jerk.
I don't think that's correct.It was a cycle of regular favoured purchasers being allocated cars at list which were exchanged back to the OPC at list, on arrival of the next halo car. The result was a massive hike in the price on the street and a lot of extra profit for the OPC ... bad for anybody who did not facilitate this game for the OPC. Nice for the facilitators.
There was no shortage of cars ... look at the numbers delivered. But the facilitators did create excess demand ... a situation which has reversed, hence now an oversupply of cars in the market.
Low interest rates were the oxygen that accelerated this cycle, high interest rates are putting the brakes on it ... even at current list prices.
This does not affect the cash purchaser so much ... only to the extent of the cost of that cash or the interest lost after tax.
The injustice here is in the facilitator / OPC game ... at the expense of normal enthusiasts, and now many of those who can get a car at list don't like the high interest rates. If they had been able to buy earlier at the interest rates available earlier, the ownership proposition might have been very different.
That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it ?
kmpowell said:
As an aside (and certainly not aimed at the poster above), it does make me cringe how there now appears to be an elitist tone creeping into GT4RS posts on here about how 4RS's are now exclusively being owned by the proper drivers and "enthusiasts". IMO, those who think this need to jump down from their driving god ivory towers, as it's really not a cool look, it's just not true...
So what is true ? I couldn't buy a new GT4RS so I bought a six year old 991.2 GT3 RS ... a better car, but at it's list price when new ... I'm hoping I did the right thing. I didn't need my Leeds OPC to tell me that I wasn't a good enough customer for a 718 GT4 / GT3 / GT3RS / GT4RS despite having first bought from them in 1977 with two new cars since 2011 ...ChrisW. said:
The injustice here is in the facilitator / OPC game ... at the expense of normal enthusiasts, and now many of those who can get a car at list don't like the high interest rates. If they had been able to buy earlier at the interest rates available earlier, the ownership proposition might have been very different.
That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it
Quite a true description!That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it
ChrisW. said:
The injustice here is in the facilitator / OPC game ... at the expense of normal enthusiasts, and now many of those who can get a car at list don't like the high interest rates. If they had been able to buy earlier at the interest rates available earlier, the ownership proposition might have been very different.
That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it ?
The bolded part is definitely the case… That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it ?
But I felt there was a brief window just before the summer where softness in the market was evident and also funding was still free/competitive enough to make things work.
I can only speak for my own experience … I decided to position myself earlier in the year and make the preparations to be ready to pounce and got something done.
You’ll remember at the time I was trying to encourage people that wanted one to ‘buy now’. - Just like I did with GT4 MR kits… and then Porsche doubled the price of those overnight and now you’ll never see another one.
Back to 4RS, If I had waited a month or two longer the ship would have sailed in terms making a good value deal. No overs, factory order, my spec, no games, financials on my terms that puts me in a good position for future, based up my intentions for the car… also because I didn't over pay anyway.
Whats the saying… When preparation meets opportunity.
Edited by TDT on Thursday 28th November 19:17
Something to also consider is that we have just been through a historically very low interest rate period.
People do need perspective and probably need to factor some of that into their reasoning. This will be true for cars and mortgages and any other large purchase that might require borrowing or financial instruments.
The low interest era is over for now… with no expectations that rates will cool anytime soon. On the other hand… if you can afford to get in now and acquire whilst asking prices are under pressure.. then if rates change for your favour in the future… you can change your position then… and no need to be involved in the fuelled asking price frenzy later on.
Bird in the hand, and all that…
Again… this is all highly discretionary luxury.
Your survival doesnt depend upon it. We shouldn’t be so entitled.
People do need perspective and probably need to factor some of that into their reasoning. This will be true for cars and mortgages and any other large purchase that might require borrowing or financial instruments.
The low interest era is over for now… with no expectations that rates will cool anytime soon. On the other hand… if you can afford to get in now and acquire whilst asking prices are under pressure.. then if rates change for your favour in the future… you can change your position then… and no need to be involved in the fuelled asking price frenzy later on.
Bird in the hand, and all that…
Again… this is all highly discretionary luxury.
Your survival doesnt depend upon it. We shouldn’t be so entitled.
Edited by TDT on Thursday 28th November 19:46
kmpowell said:
HP would be cheaper overall if you plan to keep the car for life and you can afford to pay the 'monthly' which will be significantly higher than a balloon based agreement. But, the flexibility of early terminations, hand-back, market forces on negative equity etc etc are then out of your control (or partial control). So it'll depend on your attitude towards risk and your appetite to have a sky-high monthly. 
One can early terminate and hand-back with HP even sooner compared to PCP, but an HP does not protect against market forces like a PCP does LamedonM said:
One can early terminate and hand-back with HP even sooner compared to PCP.
On HP you can only VT if you have paid at least 50% of the total contracted finance amount (including all interest). You can early terminate at less than 50%, but your credit rating gets totally screwed.
I think the number of cars handed back and for sale says a lot ... all these are less than 1000 miles:
GT4RS ... 8 + 7 new
718 SRS ... 11 + 3 new
GT3 ... 8 !
GT3 T ... 1
GT3 RS ... 4 ...
What is the story behind a car which has been turned into used with less than 1000 miles on the clock ? 32 of them ...
But a great time for a stupendous deal before the end of December ? Or maybe even a deposit with completion in the New Year ??
GT4RS ... 8 + 7 new
718 SRS ... 11 + 3 new
GT3 ... 8 !
GT3 T ... 1
GT3 RS ... 4 ...
What is the story behind a car which has been turned into used with less than 1000 miles on the clock ? 32 of them ...
But a great time for a stupendous deal before the end of December ? Or maybe even a deposit with completion in the New Year ??
ChrisW. said:
Throttlebody said:
A big change in the Porsche GT buying landscape, it was overs, limited stock and cheap credit controlling the market and jazzing people off, now it’s expensive credit, low demand and depreciation jazzing people off. Circle jerk.
I don't think that's correct.It was a cycle of regular favoured purchasers being allocated cars at list which were exchanged back to the OPC at list, on arrival of the next halo car. The result was a massive hike in the price on the street and a lot of extra profit for the OPC ... bad for anybody who did not facilitate this game for the OPC. Nice for the facilitators.
There was no shortage of cars ... look at the numbers delivered. But the facilitators did create excess demand ... a situation which has reversed, hence now an oversupply of cars in the market.
Low interest rates were the oxygen that accelerated this cycle, high interest rates are putting the brakes on it ... even at current list prices.
This does not affect the cash purchaser so much ... only to the extent of the cost of that cash or the interest lost after tax.
The injustice here is in the facilitator / OPC game ... at the expense of normal enthusiasts, and now many of those who can get a car at list don't like the high interest rates. If they had been able to buy earlier at the interest rates available earlier, the ownership proposition might have been very different.
That this has resulted in a collapse in car values has only helped those who are cash purchasers ( maybe only until they come to sell their cars ... not so important if a long term keeper). The OPC's have effectively ended up screwing their own market with over-supply ... accepted that nobody could have forecast 11% APR's ... but their greedy gamble has failed spectacularly ... hasn't it ?
TDT said:
This evening I have seen a post from a dealer making an offer…
Buy used 718 SRS (1yr old), that has been with them since September, before the end of November, and you’ll get an option on a winged 992.2 GT3.
Make of that what you will…
Reads desperation to me, what they forgot to say is we will demand your gt4rs back and offer you peanuts or you’re not having a 992.2 gt3.Buy used 718 SRS (1yr old), that has been with them since September, before the end of November, and you’ll get an option on a winged 992.2 GT3.
Make of that what you will…
Be safer to go on the hunt for a 992.2 gt3 if that’s what you really want to buy.
Currently 8 brand new unregistered gt4rs cars available on the Porsche Uk web site. Seems a very high number of unwanted new gt cars considering how some customers have been treated by certain dealership’s over the last few years.
How long would a opc normally keep a brand new car in stock before it needs to get registered.
Knowing how these opc store cars these I would imagine these new cars will probably be left sitting in an outside compound for months over winter.
How long would a opc normally keep a brand new car in stock before it needs to get registered.
Knowing how these opc store cars these I would imagine these new cars will probably be left sitting in an outside compound for months over winter.
Edited by GT4RS on Friday 6th December 08:29
I’ll bet several of these cars are ‘unsold’ because delusional OPC’s holding out for someone willing to play the outdated game of buying a Cayenne or Taycan to secure the car. These days are gone, the mug didn't show face and the allocation has made it all the way to the showroom unsold.
Their loss, they could have made someone’s day by offering the slot to a regular punter and probably had a good customer for years to come.
Their loss, they could have made someone’s day by offering the slot to a regular punter and probably had a good customer for years to come.
GT4RS said:
Currently 8 brand new unregistered gt4rs cars available on the Porsche Uk web site. Seems a very high number of unwanted new gt cars considering how some customers have been treated by certain dealership’s over the last few years.
How long would a opc normally keep a brand new car in stock before it needs to get registered.
Knowing how these opc store cars these I would imagine these new cars will probably be left sitting in an outside compound for months over winter.
Used to be 90 days from physical delivery but there can always be a different agreement with PCGB. They are unlikely to want brand new and registered GT cars being advertised I’d have thought.How long would a opc normally keep a brand new car in stock before it needs to get registered.
Knowing how these opc store cars these I would imagine these new cars will probably be left sitting in an outside compound for months over winter.
Edited by GT4RS on Friday 6th December 08:29
GRD_72 said:
I’ll bet several of these cars are ‘unsold’ because delusional OPC’s holding out for someone willing to play the outdated game of buying a Cayenne or Taycan to secure the car. These days are gone, the mug didn't show face and the allocation has made it all the way to the showroom unsold.
Their loss, they could have made someone’s day by offering the slot to a regular punter and probably had a good customer for years to come.
Due to the changing market there have been broadly no OPC 'conditions' such as having to buy a Cayenne or anything else even the £10k watch attached to both 4RS and SRS new build allocations since mid/late 2023.Their loss, they could have made someone’s day by offering the slot to a regular punter and probably had a good customer for years to come.
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