GT4RS - Availability, what’s the latest?

[Dr S]

LiamH66 said:

Different strokes... I think the 981 GT4 was the one I've loved most so far. Aside from the slightly thrown together feel of it that I loved, and lousy steering feel out of the box that I didn't, it was transformed by a proper geo setup without changing a single original part. I didn't mind the hole in the torque curve as I was generally under it on the road, and always above it on track. The manual 'box was an absolute peach, and I really didn't mind the heavier clutch and more agricultural driving experience on the road than a 982 GT4. It just added to the event of taking it out for a drive. On the track, all that ceased to matter. I knew I was trying harder than 982 GT4s to keep up, but that just added to the fun.

GT4 RS as it turned up was surprisingly better on the road, but while much quicker on track, it needed a load of parts and work before it was anything like as user friendly for me. In fairness, more committed and confident track drivers can make them work on all standard parts. You really do need to get them by the scruff of the neck to get them turned in, and be ready to catch them if you lose rear grip on the way out of corners. They've made them very safe for ordinary civilians on the road, and really good for experienced track drivers. I'm somewhere between the two of those, and while probably closer to the latter, painfully aware I'm driving a relatively fast and expensive track car uninsured.

Geo helped, but with front lift, just couldn't get the front ride height down anything like low and pointy enough, and the dampers really couldn't cope with the rear spring rate, so rebound was not properly controlled. I've gone with a Suspension Secrets kinematics pack (fitted in 2 stages to get a feel for what each did), and for me, that's a more complete solution than a DSC controller. Each to their own. I'm aiming to end up with some Ohlins dampers later this year, but for now the reduced rear spring rate has the rear hopping and corner exit snap oversteer under control.

I don't know if I appreciated the simplicity of life the 981 GT4 offered enough. I bought it as a 3-season daily that I could do a couple of track days a year in. Ended up owning it for 6 years, spending very little on it aside from overheated or worn out Cup 2 tyres, warranty, servicing at correct intervals, and really just enjoying it on a daily basis most of the time. Totally characterful, totally fun, one of the best cars I ever owned.

Is the GT4 RS objectively better? Yes, but it has needed work for me to enjoy it as much on track. Is the gap you show between those cars justifiable? I've never driven an Exige. However I have to point out the cost gap between the outgoing 981 GT4 and incoming GT4 RS was £84k, and more like £90k once I'd got the GT4 RS to handle anything like as well (for me) on track. It's probably more like £60-70k now. One can't go backwards with cars without being disappointed, but I'd take a 981 GT4 ahead of a 982 every time, then and now.

Liam

Edited by LiamH66 on Thursday 12th February 23:12

To what extent are you trail breaking into corners? Not sure all of your turn-in issues need to be resolved via geo

[fridaypassion]

finmac]ridaypassion said:

That little league table to me would look like this

GT4RS
718 GT4
410 Exige






981 GT4

Interesting, for me, I purchase an Exige 410 (and immediately did the soft roof conversion) a short while after I had bought my second 718GT4, a clubsport one. My previous 718GT4 was my daily and I used it summer/winter. Post purchase, Every time I went for a Blat I would pick the Exige 410 as the car of choice. So much that I ended up swopping the GT4 for a 911T instead!

Edited by finmac on Tuesday 24th February 08:27

For me I've never got over how good the S2 is. Not as fast but sitting above all those cars would be the S2 Exige with ohlins and an LSD. True poetry for road driving. It would need a separate thread to fully explain just how good that car is.

[GTRene]

fridaypassion said:

finmac]ridaypassion said:

That little league table to me would look like this

GT4RS
718 GT4
410 Exige






981 GT4

Interesting, for me, I purchase an Exige 410 (and immediately did the soft roof conversion) a short while after I had bought my second 718GT4, a clubsport one. My previous 718GT4 was my daily and I used it summer/winter. Post purchase, Every time I went for a Blat I would pick the Exige 410 as the car of choice. So much that I ended up swopping the GT4 for a 911T instead!

Edited by finmac on Tuesday 24th February 08:27

For me I've never got over how good the S2 is. Not as fast but sitting above all those cars would be the S2 Exige with ohlins and an LSD. True poetry for road driving. It would need a separate thread to fully explain just how good that car is.

I thought I could be a Exige mk2 man, so test drove a 220s I believe it was?
But found it less enjoyable then a tuned Elise S1 and or Elise S2 111R, but I guess on track the Exige shows it potential more.

I guess that why I look sometimes a Elise S1 with Honda and supercharger

[LiamH66]

Dr S said:

To what extent are you trail breaking into corners? Not sure all of your turn-in issues need to be resolved via geo

Now the geo is sorted, trailing the brake really deep. Before the geo was set up, less so, because I was much less sure of the car.

If I were a more confident/competent track driver I know I could have got it to turn in much better on standard settings, but I don't see any downside to getting a car set up so I can drive it quickly and confidently.

[JeffC]

fridaypassion said:

finmac]ridaypassion said:

That little league table to me would look like this

GT4RS
718 GT4
410 Exige






981 GT4

Interesting, for me, I purchase an Exige 410 (and immediately did the soft roof conversion) a short while after I had bought my second 718GT4, a clubsport one. My previous 718GT4 was my daily and I used it summer/winter. Post purchase, Every time I went for a Blat I would pick the Exige 410 as the car of choice. So much that I ended up swopping the GT4 for a 911T instead!

Edited by finmac on Tuesday 24th February 08:27

For me I've never got over how good the S2 is. Not as fast but sitting above all those cars would be the S2 Exige with ohlins and an LSD. True poetry for road driving. It would need a separate thread to fully explain just how good that car is.

A wise yorkshireman once told me this and I did listen and in all honesty If I was going for a spirited drive over the moors with the lads, the S2 Exige would be the first set of keys I would pick up. Have only driven one s3 komotech Exige 460 and that did nothing for me, compared to the s2 it felt twitchy/ crashy over bumps and lardy . It’s a shame as it seemed the obvious step forward as they have a great soundtrack and it would be the noise of the 4cylinder that would stop me having another S2 that and the fact of me getting in and out of a lotus is like having a work out these days .

[finmac]

JeffC said:

fridaypassion said:

finmac]ridaypassion said:

That little league table to me would look like this

GT4RS
718 GT4
410 Exige






981 GT4

Interesting, for me, I purchase an Exige 410 (and immediately did the soft roof conversion) a short while after I had bought my second 718GT4, a clubsport one. My previous 718GT4 was my daily and I used it summer/winter. Post purchase, Every time I went for a Blat I would pick the Exige 410 as the car of choice. So much that I ended up swopping the GT4 for a 911T instead!

Edited by finmac on Tuesday 24th February 08:27

For me I've never got over how good the S2 is. Not as fast but sitting above all those cars would be the S2 Exige with ohlins and an LSD. True poetry for road driving. It would need a separate thread to fully explain just how good that car is.

A wise yorkshireman once told me this and I did listen and in all honesty If I was going for a spirited drive over the moors with the lads, the S2 Exige would be the first set of keys I would pick up. Have only driven one s3 komotech Exige 460 and that did nothing for me, compared to the s2 it felt twitchy/ crashy over bumps and lardy . It s a shame as it seemed the obvious step forward as they have a great soundtrack and it would be the noise of the 4cylinder that would stop me having another S2 that and the fact of me getting in and out of a lotus is like having a work out these days .

Interesting, I found the opposite tbh. I ran an S2 Exige 260 for 8 years inc 2 years as my daily - summer and winter. I did keep it after I bought my S3 410 Exige but found I rarely used it - preferring the 410, eventually sold the S2 as space became trickier to store it. Four years on, still not regretting it!

[BillyB]

I ran a 964 alongside an S2 Elise SC on Ohlins. Sold the 964.

I ran a 981 GT4 alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the GT4.

I ran an S3 Exige 430 Cup alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the 430 Cup.

Still have the S2 Elise SC alongside a Caterham 620R for more extreme track fun.

[GTRene]

BillyB said:

I ran a 964 alongside an S2 Elise SC on Ohlins. Sold the 964.

I ran a 981 GT4 alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the GT4.

I ran an S3 Exige 430 Cup alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the 430 Cup.

Still have the S2 Elise SC alongside a Caterham 620R for more extreme track fun.

those are indeed more 'playful' and nimble.

[JeffC]

GTRene said:

BillyB said:

I ran a 964 alongside an S2 Elise SC on Ohlins. Sold the 964.

I ran a 981 GT4 alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the GT4.

I ran an S3 Exige 430 Cup alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the 430 Cup.

Still have the S2 Elise SC alongside a Caterham 620R for more extreme track fun.

those are indeed more 'playful' and nimble.

looks like a few of us have walked a similar path, I did 20 years with Caterhams road/race/track and sort of grew out of them after a near miss on the road with a large truck just not seeing me.

I bought a 981 Spyder back in 2016 but just couldn't get excited over it all , I then built a k24 supercharged Elise S1 which was an absolute hoot, kept if for 7 years, swapped to an S3 Elise 300bhp which surprisingly I really enjoyed. Replaced with the S2 Exige which I thought was the sweet spot and one of the best road cars I have ever driven .

I built a k20 Honda Caterham in an attempt to reignite my love for a 7 and did a few track days but think once that ship sails it's not heading back, lost interest quickly and sold it.

Currently am on with an RS 964 recreation which I am really enjoying, I am off out on Sunday and plan on taxing the 964 and the Spyder RS and although it shouldn't be, It will be a tough decision on which keys I pick up and suspect it will be the older car that ends up going out.

[Digga]

LiamH66 said:

Dr S said:

To what extent are you trail breaking into corners? Not sure all of your turn-in issues need to be resolved via geo

Now the geo is sorted, trailing the brake really deep. Before the geo was set up, less so, because I was much less sure of the car.

If I were a more confident/competent track driver I know I could have got it to turn in much better on standard settings, but I don't see any downside to getting a car set up so I can drive it quickly and confidently.

FWIW I am a very average driver. My 15 minutes in a GT4 RS MR at PEC Silverstone were some of the most fun laps I've ever done in any car, ever. I have never driven a car, barring maybe the Mk1 Elise at Oulton, which so encourages you to take it by the scruff and hurl it into corners. The mix of power, control and precision was awe inspiring.

[fridaypassion]

BillyB said:

I ran a 964 alongside an S2 Elise SC on Ohlins. Sold the 964.

I ran a 981 GT4 alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the GT4.

I ran an S3 Exige 430 Cup alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the 430 Cup.

Still have the S2 Elise SC alongside a Caterham 620R for more extreme track fun.

An S2 platform Lotus is missing from so many people's car histories I weep for them as that is the benchmark certainly when it comes to road cars. You could argue the S1 but not getting roasted alive by heat soak in Summer and the slightly easier entry/egress and more powerful engine options just edge the S2 for me. None servo brakes are a thing of joy though robbed from us on the Toyota cars!

[GTRene]

fridaypassion said:

BillyB said:

I ran a 964 alongside an S2 Elise SC on Ohlins. Sold the 964.

I ran a 981 GT4 alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the GT4.

I ran an S3 Exige 430 Cup alongside the S2 Elise SC. Sold the 430 Cup.

Still have the S2 Elise SC alongside a Caterham 620R for more extreme track fun.

An S2 platform Lotus is missing from so many people's car histories I weep for them as that is the benchmark certainly when it comes to road cars. You could argue the S1 but not getting roasted alive by heat soak in Summer and the slightly easier entry/egress and more powerful engine options just edge the S2 for me. None servo brakes are a thing of joy though robbed from us on the Toyota cars!

never owned one but did testdrive a few examples in different tuning stages as well.

I like the S1 because cute and light, but yeah the S2 is better and I guess it can handle more power better, its a bit more grown up, sometimes that can be a bad thing (loosing a bit connection/nimbleness) but not sure with the Elise.

I would like some day a Elise with at least 1hp per 2kg empty car weight, so in a S1 thats a bit easier to get, although a early S2 can also be light... but yeah, I guess a S2 since Toyota 111R is a good car/base to get it going.

I never drove a S3 though, I do like the looks of those, specially the later ones with open gear mechanism look, but those are also heavier, ooooh all the choices

[TDT]

Probably time to rename this one General Car Chat!

[GTRene]

TDT said:

Probably time to rename this one General Car Chat!

sorry

[PRO5T]

S2 Exige was one of the...

I have to pick my phrase correctly but I can't ever say anything better than crapest cars I ever owned.

It wasn't so much the reliability (which wasn't great but was better than some may have expected), it was just not a great handling car. Stiff, grippy tyres, no PAS, short wheel base...

I reckon, in fact I know I spun that car more than any other car i've owned. Of all the mid engined cars I've driven it was the worst. I'm sure you can get them in a window where they're excellent at one certain thing but for my (at the time) only car-daily, ring tool, track car etc.

I hated it. Was a bloody cool little thing though but a 987 Boxster was a revelation after it.

[JeffC]

PRO5T said:

S2 Exige was one of the...

I have to pick my phrase correctly but I can't ever say anything better than crapest cars I ever owned.

It wasn't so much the reliability (which wasn't great but was better than some may have expected), it was just not a great handling car. Stiff, grippy tyres, no PAS, short wheel base...

I reckon, in fact I know I spun that car more than any other car i've owned. Of all the mid engined cars I've driven it was the worst. I'm sure you can get them in a window where they're excellent at one certain thing but for my (at the time) only car-daily, ring tool, track car etc.

I hated it. Was a bloody cool little thing though but a 987 Boxster was a revelation after it.

Sounds fantastic and you would absolutely love an S1 then

This is a incar of the Honda s1 I built with 2.4 motor and supercharger strapped on the top doing a 0-130 Mph launch .


https://www.instagram.com/p/CVv1d1fDqIt/?igsh=MTFz...

Edited by JeffC on Friday 27th February 16:50

[fridaypassion]

How did you break an S2 Exige? Would be interested to know what reliability issues were assuming this is when the cars were newer too? They don't really break very much even at 15-20 years old.

My comments on the exige all refer to road driving too they aren't amazing out of the box for track. The suspension is way too soft. Drive train is a bit flaky too the v6 would be a better option for a track car. They are also not that quick by modern standards.

[LiamH66]

Digga said:

FWIW I am a very average driver. My 15 minutes in a GT4 RS MR at PEC Silverstone were some of the most fun laps I've ever done in any car, ever. I have never driven a car, barring maybe the Mk1 Elise at Oulton, which so encourages you to take it by the scruff and hurl it into corners. The mix of power, control and precision was awe inspiring.

I got to drive the PEC GT4 RS MR for an hour last year. It handles and feels very much like my own (lightly modified) GT4 RS. Front end is planted and confidence inspiring, and plenty of feedback and control when getting back on the power. Have to agree an exceptionally well sorted package in the MR, with better damping than my car (still on standard shocks for now, but geo, springs and ride height changed). My old 981 GT4 was a similar experience with all standard parts and a full Suspension Secrets setup. I could drive it as hard as I was able, and then a bit harder, without feeling out of control.

I dream of being an average driver, let alone very average. But I have sufficient club kart racing and car track day experience to put my humble abilities to their best use, and to know my limitations. @Digga, could not agree with you more. The Manthey kitted 4RS makes an exceptionally good package sublime. I'd love to try it on a full size race track, but fear it might lead me to part with too much money!

Liam

[Digga]

LiamH66 said:

Digga said:

FWIW I am a very average driver. My 15 minutes in a GT4 RS MR at PEC Silverstone were some of the most fun laps I've ever done in any car, ever. I have never driven a car, barring maybe the Mk1 Elise at Oulton, which so encourages you to take it by the scruff and hurl it into corners. The mix of power, control and precision was awe inspiring.

I got to drive the PEC GT4 RS MR for an hour last year. It handles and feels very much like my own (lightly modified) GT4 RS. Front end is planted and confidence inspiring, and plenty of feedback and control when getting back on the power. Have to agree an exceptionally well sorted package in the MR, with better damping than my car (still on standard shocks for now, but geo, springs and ride height changed). My old 981 GT4 was a similar experience with all standard parts and a full Suspension Secrets setup. I could drive it as hard as I was able, and then a bit harder, without feeling out of control.

I dream of being an average driver, let alone very average. But I have sufficient club kart racing and car track day experience to put my humble abilities to their best use, and to know my limitations. @Digga, could not agree with you more. The Manthey kitted 4RS makes an exceptionally good package sublime. I'd love to try it on a full size race track, but fear it might lead me to part with too much money!

Liam

It’s amusing, because the talk of Elise’s is apt; there was something akin to my first ever drive of an S1 at Oulton in the immediate communication and capability of the 4 RS MR. A pure joy machine.

[lotusgeek]

I've been enjoying reading this topic with all the positive chat about the Elise/Exige. I've had a few Lotus, including an S2 Exige with proper dampers and setup and it's the most fun car I have ever owned. It did 30 plus track days over years and never ever let me down. My friends told me not to sell it when I did and I regret it to this day. It was replaced with a Exige 410, which was very short lived for various reasons and ultimately a new 718 GT4 sits in its place. I got to spec from new and enjoy the whole experience and it's fantastic, but it just doesn't give me that same feeling.

Oh and to keep this mildly on topic I suspect a 4RS would give me that feeling. I just can't justify the £££ for a toy!!!