Cayman 987.1 to 987.2S or 981GTS?
Discussion
Guys,
Thanks to you all for your replies. They are all helpful and appreciated.
I started this thread thinking that a 981GTS was probably the obvious choice but a bit of research suggests that the 987.2S which was originally thrown in as a makeweight is probably the one that appeals more. I like nimble, I like connectedness and I like mechanical feel. The 987 has more of these than the 981 (although you will notice that I am avoiding calling either a 'better' car.)
The strong wants are thus:
- Manual
- More pep than the current 2.7 987.1
- Hard top
- Just as much fun to drive, if not more
- Non-black colour scheme. (Let me explain this a bit more; a car with black exterior and interior would be a no-no. Black exterior and a pale or coloured interior would be OK. Ideal would be something with a coloured exterior and pale or coloured interior.)
- No significant reduction on the spec of my 987.1 (full leather interior, sports seats, heated seats, probably PASM.)
Finding a 987.2S in this spec could take a while. As people have observed, there are few 987.2S manual cars out there and they don't come up for sale often. Being picky in the other bits of my spec narrows the field down worse.
Therefore the options are:
- Compromise. Settle for a PDK/DSG gearbox. This is an option but not an attractive one. And I'd still be looking at a small pool of potential purchases.
- Look at a 997 (i.e 911 platform) instead. This would mean more choice of cars but I'm not sure it's worth the extra expense and the mid-engined platform has always appealed more as a purist option than the rear-engine of the 911.
- Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one.
- Do something else. Other cars in the household are a 944 (which I love and which is staying put) and an older Fabia, which my wife uses to go to work and is generally practical. However this is coming to the end of it's life and I was looking at BMW i3's to replace it. Perhaps an alternative to the Cayman Conundrum would be to replace the Fabia with something practical and fun (Golf GTI being the starting point because I am boring) and replace the Cayman with something more balls-to-the-wall like a Caterham. The obvious downside of this is that we would then end up with two summer-use cars (Caterham and the 944), but the Fabia replacement would tick the all-year-'round-fun box so we'd probably cope.
Hmmm. Decisions. (Of course, the obvious decision would be simply to stick with what I have as the existing 987.1 Cayman is great in many, many ways. Perhaps I should do this instead and keep the money in my pocket!)
Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions!
Thanks to you all for your replies. They are all helpful and appreciated.
I started this thread thinking that a 981GTS was probably the obvious choice but a bit of research suggests that the 987.2S which was originally thrown in as a makeweight is probably the one that appeals more. I like nimble, I like connectedness and I like mechanical feel. The 987 has more of these than the 981 (although you will notice that I am avoiding calling either a 'better' car.)
The strong wants are thus:
- Manual
- More pep than the current 2.7 987.1
- Hard top
- Just as much fun to drive, if not more
- Non-black colour scheme. (Let me explain this a bit more; a car with black exterior and interior would be a no-no. Black exterior and a pale or coloured interior would be OK. Ideal would be something with a coloured exterior and pale or coloured interior.)
- No significant reduction on the spec of my 987.1 (full leather interior, sports seats, heated seats, probably PASM.)
Finding a 987.2S in this spec could take a while. As people have observed, there are few 987.2S manual cars out there and they don't come up for sale often. Being picky in the other bits of my spec narrows the field down worse.
Therefore the options are:
- Compromise. Settle for a PDK/DSG gearbox. This is an option but not an attractive one. And I'd still be looking at a small pool of potential purchases.
- Look at a 997 (i.e 911 platform) instead. This would mean more choice of cars but I'm not sure it's worth the extra expense and the mid-engined platform has always appealed more as a purist option than the rear-engine of the 911.
- Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one.
- Do something else. Other cars in the household are a 944 (which I love and which is staying put) and an older Fabia, which my wife uses to go to work and is generally practical. However this is coming to the end of it's life and I was looking at BMW i3's to replace it. Perhaps an alternative to the Cayman Conundrum would be to replace the Fabia with something practical and fun (Golf GTI being the starting point because I am boring) and replace the Cayman with something more balls-to-the-wall like a Caterham. The obvious downside of this is that we would then end up with two summer-use cars (Caterham and the 944), but the Fabia replacement would tick the all-year-'round-fun box so we'd probably cope.
Hmmm. Decisions. (Of course, the obvious decision would be simply to stick with what I have as the existing 987.1 Cayman is great in many, many ways. Perhaps I should do this instead and keep the money in my pocket!)
Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions!
Re looking at other brands I drove a 987.2 3.4 S PDK (full leather, PASM, etc) from 2015-2020. A few months ago I bought an Alpine A110S; the engine is surprisingly torquey for a 2 litre, the S suspension is firm (like PASM sport all the time, but the standard model is softer), but less weight, superb bucket seats and a low driving position makes the longer-geared Porsche seem like a lardy GT in comparison. It might be 30hp down on my old Cayman but it s also 300kg lighter.
Brakes and steering feel are comparable, but the luggage space is barely half of what a Cayman could carry, so you ll need to pack judiciously for anything more thana few nights one night away. Overall the A110 probably has more in common with an Elise/MX5 than a Cayman, and they are perhaps bit Marmite in looks and interior feel; I m certainly enjoying mine.
Brakes and steering feel are comparable, but the luggage space is barely half of what a Cayman could carry, so you ll need to pack judiciously for anything more than
Edited by Michael_B on Sunday 18th January 08:41
Its funny how a lot of people who go looking for 987.2's get very hung up with the interior trim, stock dash vs extended leather, there's nothing wrong with the stock dash its very nice quality and feels good to the touch, you could end up missing out on a great car just because it doesn't have a leather dash.
If leather is what you really want this will drastically reduce the amount of available cars to you, and that's before colour, grearbox, sport seats, wheels, suspension and most importantly condition come into it, there's not a lot of these cars around to be that picky you could end up waiting years or never find the "perfect" car then you would miss out on the best bit...driving it.
Just look on the Cayman R thread for people dismissing cars because it doesn't have one thing they want and because of this they never get the pleasure of owning one...personally I think that's mental.
OP good luck with your search for a car, when you find one please post some pictures for us to see.
If leather is what you really want this will drastically reduce the amount of available cars to you, and that's before colour, grearbox, sport seats, wheels, suspension and most importantly condition come into it, there's not a lot of these cars around to be that picky you could end up waiting years or never find the "perfect" car then you would miss out on the best bit...driving it.
Just look on the Cayman R thread for people dismissing cars because it doesn't have one thing they want and because of this they never get the pleasure of owning one...personally I think that's mental.
OP good luck with your search for a car, when you find one please post some pictures for us to see.
No affiliation - this is the best 987.2 non R out there. Its got it all. A unicorn.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202601119...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202601119...
Edited by Jones the cat on Sunday 18th January 01:58
2Btoo said:
Guys,
- Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one.
Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions!
Surprised to see an Alpine suggested on a Porsche forum. They have their dedicated fans but is a very different proposition to a Cayman. Luggage space is basically non existent, and reliability is quite poor (try reading the Alpine forums, Porsche not perfect but Alpine far worse). Always seemed odd to me making an enthusiast sports car that was four pot turbo and not available in manual. Definitely compromised.- Look at other brands. An Alpine is the obvious choice and has significant appeal. How bad is the luggage space in one? Perhaps I need to have a look at one.
Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this thread updated with decisions!
In terms of Caymans good shout 987.2, steering is so much better, 981s are very compromised, GTS so overrated despite all the forum fawning we read about on here.
2Btoo said:
I started this thread thinking that a 981GTS was probably the obvious choice but a bit of research suggests that the 987.2S which was originally thrown in as a makeweight is probably the one that appeals more. I like nimble, I like connectedness and I like mechanical feel. The 987 has more of these than the 981 (although you will notice that I am avoiding calling either a 'better' car.)
Fair enough. Think the big two things missing from ruling out the 981 though is the sports exhaust (induction into the cabin which wasn't on the 987 platform), and the interior of the 981. This is less-so the trim and more the way the centre console 'hems' you in.I owned a 987.2 (base) for 6 years. Excellent car, absolutely loved it. 981GTS is a different beast and both variations have their strengths and weaknesses but every time I get in the 981 it feels like the LMP cars which drove my aspirations to own a Porsche. Also it's still very much a go-kart.
But there is a huge difference between a 987.2S and 981GTS. For start, the latter is going to be at least £25k more expensive. So it will be a heart over head decision. Do not rule out a well-optioned 981.
To be honest, reading this and your earlier post I also wonder whether a base 987.2 or 981 would suit better as the smaller engine means you're going to need to rev it more to extract performance. If manual is a must then base model could be lots of fun
Clad-Hach said:
Its funny how a lot of people who go looking for 987.2's get very hung up with the interior trim, stock dash vs extended leather, there's nothing wrong with the stock dash its very nice quality and feels good to the touch, you could end up missing out on a great car just because it doesn't have a leather dash.
This kind of thing is obviously subjective. Personally I think the plastic dash and door cards are pretty grim. But it’s certainly and advantage if you are happy with that in terms of finding a good car.John D. said:
What do you mean about the 981 sports exhaust and induction into the cabin? Does the sports exhaust come with a different induction arrangement?
Yes, the system was redesigned in the 981 to 'pipe' more engine sound into the cabin. It basically uses a diaphragm to increase sound resonance. If you run Sports mode in the 987 and 981 they sound markedly different. In the cabin, the 981 is more noticeable, and deeper. 981 also included overrun (active in Sport) so you get more of the crackles and burbles not in the earlier generations. SV_WDC said:
John D. said:
What do you mean about the 981 sports exhaust and induction into the cabin? Does the sports exhaust come with a different induction arrangement?
Yes, the system was redesigned in the 981 to 'pipe' more engine sound into the cabin. It basically uses a diaphragm to increase sound resonance. If you run Sports mode in the 987 and 981 they sound markedly different. In the cabin, the 981 is more noticeable, and deeper. 981 also included overrun (active in Sport) so you get more of the crackles and burbles not in the earlier generations. Had a 981 Cayman S for just about 6 years so you could I liked it. In fact loved it. It was spec'd (not by me) virtually as a GTS (although they weren't available at the time of build), with the exception of PSE.
It sounds wonderful without. I actually had it retrofitted, so you don't get the additional induction sound mentioned above. It sounded even better under acceleration (the best I've owned and now on my 4th 911). However, the pops and bangs are really unneccesary imo.
I wouldn't ignore a 981 without PSE if it has everything else you'd want. There are many exhaust options out there.
It sounds wonderful without. I actually had it retrofitted, so you don't get the additional induction sound mentioned above. It sounded even better under acceleration (the best I've owned and now on my 4th 911). However, the pops and bangs are really unneccesary imo.
I wouldn't ignore a 981 without PSE if it has everything else you'd want. There are many exhaust options out there.
I had a 987 Boxster 2.7 for 8 years and really enjoyed driving it all over Europe in that time but we acquired a 2.7 981 Cayman and ran the 2 in parallel for a couple of years until we decided it wasn't practical to keep both so made the decision to let the Boxster go. We've now had the Cayman for 10 years and its unlikely it'll ever be sold as for todays roads and traffic its probably right in the middle of the ownership/entertainment sweet spot.
In the end everyone is going to have a different opinion and the only way you're going to know what to do is to drive all the cars on your list and make the decision based on your experience. Either way you'll end up with a cracking car.
In the end everyone is going to have a different opinion and the only way you're going to know what to do is to drive all the cars on your list and make the decision based on your experience. Either way you'll end up with a cracking car.
Guys,
Thanks for the comments. There's a bit of an update.
The friend (well, friend's son) came over for a very amiable lunch, walk-around the car, ruffle through history and paperwork, eyeball at the pile of spare parts I have for the car and a drive, and despite me doing all I could to dissuade him he has decided he does want it. (The make-or-break point was whether he could fit an ironing board in the back; he's an army officer so does quite a lot of ironing of kit. An ironing board was found in our laundry room and it fitted a treat!)
There's no rush to find the replacement as he's in no rush to buy, but I now need to start looking for something to replace it with. In practice, I may well sell him the car in the next coming couple of months as I can then use the 944 during spring/summer and look for a new 987 at my leisure. However I do need to start looking.
So ... 987.2, S, manual. Not black/black (I could cope with black outside or black inside but not both). Good condition.
Not worried about mileage. Needs to have heated seats, sports for preference.
Nice to have would be full leather and some bright colours; the grey exterior and red interior of my current one is perfect.
If anyone has any links to suitable machines then post them here .... thanks!
Thanks for the comments. There's a bit of an update.
The friend (well, friend's son) came over for a very amiable lunch, walk-around the car, ruffle through history and paperwork, eyeball at the pile of spare parts I have for the car and a drive, and despite me doing all I could to dissuade him he has decided he does want it. (The make-or-break point was whether he could fit an ironing board in the back; he's an army officer so does quite a lot of ironing of kit. An ironing board was found in our laundry room and it fitted a treat!)
There's no rush to find the replacement as he's in no rush to buy, but I now need to start looking for something to replace it with. In practice, I may well sell him the car in the next coming couple of months as I can then use the 944 during spring/summer and look for a new 987 at my leisure. However I do need to start looking.
So ... 987.2, S, manual. Not black/black (I could cope with black outside or black inside but not both). Good condition.
Not worried about mileage. Needs to have heated seats, sports for preference.
Nice to have would be full leather and some bright colours; the grey exterior and red interior of my current one is perfect.
If anyone has any links to suitable machines then post them here .... thanks!
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