UK 951 Race Cars - Where are they?
Discussion
Either job is a big one, as the diff bearings will always need re-shimming to match the new CWP, diff and casing together (this is required to achieve the correct meshing of the CWP). Further considerations are if your 951 trans has the cooler, you'll want to retain that in a race car so this would mean using the 951 case. Also I'm not sure if the diff and crown-wheel are the same diameter in the 924s as the 951... If your turbo box is a non-S, then I doubt it has any of the strengthened gear sets. But then again who knows. If I'm honest it's a can of worms I've not yet researched fully, but there's plenty of info on the subject to be read in the usual places 
With regards to the shifter mech, that's a quick and easy job to swap over and it will fit your 951. I run a combination of a JMG front and an Only944 rear on mine and it works great!!
With regards to the shifter mech, that's a quick and easy job to swap over and it will fit your 951. I run a combination of a JMG front and an Only944 rear on mine and it works great!!
Pretty certain they are not the same size, meaning that a custom casing will need to be machined to take a NA 944 pinion bearing into the 951 box. I wouldn't waste my time personally, NA 944 gearing is good for the low torque of those engines but makes no sense if/when pushing out over 300 lb/ft over a wide rev range. The NA 944 gearing can also be a PITA on certain circuits, Silverstone in particular one finds your constantly banging into the top of 3rd on corner exists, same in the 968.
Just had a search around Rennlist and NJH is right; it's only the S/S2/951 trans ring and pinions that are interchangeable. So 8v NA gear sets and pinions won't fit.
Interesting you should say that though as I've found my gearing to be very long and I'm off-boost out of a lot of slower corners. However the S2 FD is quite a jump so I suppose it may tip the balance the other way... I need more seat time at more circuits in mine before making my mind up on this though, but quite a few people have suggested the S2 FD to me when discussing my build. But then maybe they're not carrying enough speed through the corners
Interesting you should say that though as I've found my gearing to be very long and I'm off-boost out of a lot of slower corners. However the S2 FD is quite a jump so I suppose it may tip the balance the other way... I need more seat time at more circuits in mine before making my mind up on this though, but quite a few people have suggested the S2 FD to me when discussing my build. But then maybe they're not carrying enough speed through the corners
3rd is the problem Rich, it tops out around 85-90 which is your exit launch speed on many corners so your stuck having to use 4th instead but if your only say 80 in the corner then you're way down when 4th tops out around 120 mph. If you have a turbo engine you would naturally leave it in 4th and ride the torque but then what would be the point of the lower gearing if one ended up using 4th and 5th all the time any way. S2 gearing works mega well at other tracks than Silverstone though, its just that one circuit that sticks in my mind for S2/968 gearing.
If the boost or power band is dropping out between gear changes then that is a separate issue and I know guys like Simon Peckham (SPS) played around a lot with hybrid Garett turbos to give much faster spool up time, less lag and wider power band.
I have some idea what a turbo motor with S2/968 gearing would be like, My Megane R26 has near enough identical gearing to a 968 and is currently running 275 lb/ft of torque and about 1280 Kg without a driver (EU 1355 Kg). The thing is just mental in 2nd so I try to basically just not use 2nd gear once moving, that car would definitely be better with slightly longer gearing to match the torque and in a 951 I think I would always prefer to get more and wider power delivery to work with the gear ratios rather than trying to alter the gear ratios.
If the boost or power band is dropping out between gear changes then that is a separate issue and I know guys like Simon Peckham (SPS) played around a lot with hybrid Garett turbos to give much faster spool up time, less lag and wider power band.
I have some idea what a turbo motor with S2/968 gearing would be like, My Megane R26 has near enough identical gearing to a 968 and is currently running 275 lb/ft of torque and about 1280 Kg without a driver (EU 1355 Kg). The thing is just mental in 2nd so I try to basically just not use 2nd gear once moving, that car would definitely be better with slightly longer gearing to match the torque and in a 951 I think I would always prefer to get more and wider power delivery to work with the gear ratios rather than trying to alter the gear ratios.
That's useful info, thanks. Food for thought! A new Turbo is higher up the list than messing around with the trans (hopefully!). I have a donor k26/8 in my stash ready for some fettling, the plan is to have it built with quick-spooling and a good mid range rather than huge power. I reckon 300hp is plenty for a competitive and reliable car in FC...
Racing tomorrow at Donington Park in the CSCC Future Classics race. Full grid inc a 928 and 5 S2s.
Weather forecast is truly awful - heavy rain from 1200 to 1600 and we race at 1525. Great. Not.
Going to have to make a last minute panic buy of some vaguely suitable tyres. Nothing is really suitable but survival may be the order of the day and not worry about lap times or the result. Going to try some Uniroyal Rainsport 3s.
Weather forecast is truly awful - heavy rain from 1200 to 1600 and we race at 1525. Great. Not.
Going to have to make a last minute panic buy of some vaguely suitable tyres. Nothing is really suitable but survival may be the order of the day and not worry about lap times or the result. Going to try some Uniroyal Rainsport 3s.
Cheburator mk2 said:
Nankang 2R or whatever in Super Soft is actually the go-to tyre for wet days. As for Donni - good luck. I expect Mark to win it in the 928GTS - 1200kg and 400bhp of transaxle goodness 
And a good driver to boot.
thank you alex but ive got a minute penalty so just going to have some fun getting up as far as i can, ive read the weather report to. have to hope michael fish was wrong And a good driver to boot. ive got two tyres that have only done thruxton qualifying for the nearside thats my only hopemy money is on steve scott in the cossie, no penalty and really flying lately and is good in the wet with his rallying background
Must count as amongst the most difficult conditions I have raced in.
Treacherous really. Qualified 36th out of 38 on very unsuitable Michelin Pilot Cup Sports! Switched to the Uniroyal Rainsport tyres for the race and madeup 9 places in the races and had a couple of good dices and overtakes but spun twice (I was in very good company) and survived an assault from a 911 that stoved the drivers door in. (He was very apologetic later).
There are some racers with immensely big balls in this series!
We live to fight another day and enjoyed it really, but my quattro would have been ideal, though!
Treacherous really. Qualified 36th out of 38 on very unsuitable Michelin Pilot Cup Sports! Switched to the Uniroyal Rainsport tyres for the race and madeup 9 places in the races and had a couple of good dices and overtakes but spun twice (I was in very good company) and survived an assault from a 911 that stoved the drivers door in. (He was very apologetic later).
There are some racers with immensely big balls in this series!
We live to fight another day and enjoyed it really, but my quattro would have been ideal, though!
Massively impressive that Tony Maryon and Paul Dingle had fastest race laps 10 secs faster than me in their S2s. They are drivers with big balls. How do they do that?
Even more impressive was the fact that the race winner had a fastest lap 3 seconds quicker than them, and lapped everyone up to third place in a Mk1 Escort RS1600. The prize for the biggest balls goes to him.
Even more impressive was the fact that the race winner had a fastest lap 3 seconds quicker than them, and lapped everyone up to third place in a Mk1 Escort RS1600. The prize for the biggest balls goes to him.
Sounds pretty crazy, pretty glad my car wasn't ready now TBH as that doesn't sound like an ideal first outing!!
With regards to the RS1600 winning, it just goes to show how much of a leveller those conditions are. I bet he was able to drive the wheels off it whilst most others were managing wheel spin and slides, that's not to take anything away from the talent displayed by the sounds of it!
Hope the door is easily fixed.
With regards to the RS1600 winning, it just goes to show how much of a leveller those conditions are. I bet he was able to drive the wheels off it whilst most others were managing wheel spin and slides, that's not to take anything away from the talent displayed by the sounds of it!
Hope the door is easily fixed.
andy97 said:
There's a 951 up for sale on RCD right now at a good price.
No indication of recent engine work or anything of the like... At £6k it is a very binary proposition - either stunning value for money or the start of a wallet draining journey. Dare I say it - with only 250bhp it would be painfully slow against the developed S2s and it is a more difficult car to drive fast. Hmmm I'm sure I saw that for sale earlier this year. At that price and making some guesswork/assumptions at the spec, it'll probably need a fair amount of spend to make it good. Being brutally honest, it looks a bit rough around the edges!.. Probably can't go too far wrong for £6k though if someone is willing to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in.
Richair said:
Hmmm I'm sure I saw that for sale earlier this year. At that price and making some guesswork/assumptions at the spec, it'll probably need a fair amount of spend to make it good. Being brutally honest, it looks a bit rough around the edges!.. Probably can't go too far wrong for £6k though if someone is willing to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in.
Agree - at £6k provided the eligibility of the 944T for historic racing, I think it is worth a punt. A properly developed, fast 944T is more than double that in my estimate. Lastly, that cage in the car - sure, it would pass scrutineering, but I am not sure I would want to rely on it in a shunt...Good stuff Andy, is the car still going well then? first event will be in Tintops at Snetterton as the Porsche is in bits again... I've been meaning to update this thread for a good while as I *kind of* finished the car back in October and then I broke on it's second outing 
When it was working it was going well, very pleased. But then the clutch guide tube broke and took the fork with it (I was changing down for Lodge and the pedal went to the floor so I managed to coast back into the paddock). Not all bad though as the clutch and flywheel were on the 'to do' list, however so was a load of other jobs. This has therefore opened up Pandora's Box big time!! The motor is currently out and I'm making A LOT of changes. When it's done it should go like stink and be pretty reliable (touch wood...). Hope to be out to play again in the summer
Good luck for your first event Andy!
When it was working it was going well, very pleased. But then the clutch guide tube broke and took the fork with it (I was changing down for Lodge and the pedal went to the floor so I managed to coast back into the paddock). Not all bad though as the clutch and flywheel were on the 'to do' list, however so was a load of other jobs. This has therefore opened up Pandora's Box big time!! The motor is currently out and I'm making A LOT of changes. When it's done it should go like stink and be pretty reliable (touch wood...). Hope to be out to play again in the summer
Good luck for your first event Andy!
Edited by Richair on Wednesday 1st March 20:14
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