944 turbo, underrated?
Discussion
Thanks Paul , not my normal habitat but Tipec has been a bit quiet . What A4 Quattro do you have , just rebuilt my B7 tfsi with new mahle rings due to ridiculous oil consumption .Had to use all my will power to resist putting in forged rods and a ko4 . Not a drop of oil used after run in .
The 944 is still such a great car to drive and work on , even I can understand how it works .
The 944 is still such a great car to drive and work on , even I can understand how it works .
The B7 had a naff oil control ring which has pin holes to let the oil through and these get coked up over time forcing the oil above the rings till your using a litre every 500 miles .
Still with the rebuilt turbo , decoked head and a stage 1 remap it is good for 250hp which puts it in direct comparison with a 944 turbo and I can fill it with crap for the tip and take the dog to the field with out being to bothered if it gets the odd scratch .
A tuned 944 is a different animal altogether.
Still with the rebuilt turbo , decoked head and a stage 1 remap it is good for 250hp which puts it in direct comparison with a 944 turbo and I can fill it with crap for the tip and take the dog to the field with out being to bothered if it gets the odd scratch .
A tuned 944 is a different animal altogether.
blade7 said:
The guy that mapped them is, if the rumour is true. It would be interesting to know how much difference an extra 6-8 lb of boost made.
This would be a friend of my uncle's: Wayne Schofield. From memory it involved the ABS sensors, but with FrontRunners becoming ever more popular, and every 
thats just bought one being an expert, my interest has diminished.
blade7 said:
When they were raced the legal boost was checked. Apparently it could be fiddled higher when the front wheels were turning. It's only cheating if you get caught.
On Bob Watson’s rolling road (the championship approved RR) the 951’s delivered 250 bhp plus or minus x%. As soon as the car was on the track there was some form of rotary switch on the front wheels which led to a different map being used and more power.
The racers argued they were legal as the regs stated 250bhp on BW’s RR, which they gave. PCGB could not prove otherwise but eventually mandated that the 951 could only race in the Porsche Open series.
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I don’t regret selling the 951 race car, though. It was a great car, and one of the lightest, albeit standard engine and no different map trickery; it handled really well but just a bit too difficult and expensive to get parts for at my budget level.
Before I bought it, Jamie Chadwick had used it in Ireland when she was chasing signatures ahead of her British GT4 title winning season.
I would have loved to have taken mine to Augment Automotive for their ecu and wastegate work but I just couldn’t really afford and justify it.
I have a Caterham now, which I love.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 15th April 10:28
blade7 said:
andy97 said:
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I'm guessing you're glad you kept the Quattro for financial reasons? Over a decade ago my 944 turbo cost me what I'd sold my 87 Cosworth for a few years earlier. The Cosworth would be worth more now, but that would have meant keeping an inferior car for years. I think a late 944 turbo would slaughter a ur Quattro on a dry road, am I right?The 951 is a great (and massively underrated) car but not a patch on the quattro. On dry roads across country I would still take the q! The handling and ride quality on twisty B roads is awesome. And, of course, on a wet or winter road the 951 would not know where it had gone. A track day would be a different matter, though. I really love the 951 but the Quattro is one of THE all time greats.
Quattro values have risen, but nowhere near as much as they should have done imho, but when I made the decision on which one to keep the prices of both the 951 and q were not that high and the differential not that massive.
I kept the right car but would have loved both.
IMI A said:
In fact I may go and have look through the loft for a pic my beloved old black 944 turbo se which was a minter at 136k miles when i sold. Lucky to have covered 300k miles in 944 turbo and S2 as dd. There was a guy who used to race one in Porsche Club Championship. Was schooling air cooled 3.2 Carrera, 964 and 993 on track. Even when 996 came along was there some parity but GT3 needed 385bhp to overcome a 944 with 250bhp but the 944 turbo still kept on winning so was finally banned because Porsche could not admit their ancient 944 was better than any modern 911 around a track. This all from memory so if there are pedants 911 die hards who remember differently apologies in advance. I used to love watching Chris Heeley, Tim Rice and and Peter Chambers slugging it out only for Chris in his 944 to win some epic races
Well thank you , at least someone appreciated it !
At the request of Porsche GB, extra weight kept being added to slow the turbo’s down.
ted 191 said:
IMI A said:
In fact I may go and have look through the loft for a pic my beloved old black 944 turbo se which was a minter at 136k miles when i sold. Lucky to have covered 300k miles in 944 turbo and S2 as dd. There was a guy who used to race one in Porsche Club Championship. Was schooling air cooled 3.2 Carrera, 964 and 993 on track. Even when 996 came along was there some parity but GT3 needed 385bhp to overcome a 944 with 250bhp but the 944 turbo still kept on winning so was finally banned because Porsche could not admit their ancient 944 was better than any modern 911 around a track. This all from memory so if there are pedants 911 die hards who remember differently apologies in advance. I used to love watching Chris Heeley, Tim Rice and and Peter Chambers slugging it out only for Chris in his 944 to win some epic races
Well thank you , at least someone appreciated it !
At the request of Porsche GB, extra weight kept being added to slow the turbo’s down.
andy97 said:
Yes, I was told that, too, by “Chipwizards” who may have been involved!!!
On Bob Watson’s rolling road (the championship approved RR) the 951’s delivered 250 bhp plus or minus x%. As soon as the car was on the track there was some form of rotary switch on the front wheels which led to a different map being used and more power.
The racers argued they were legal as the regs stated 250bhp on BW’s RR, which they gave. PCGB could not prove otherwise but eventually mandated that the 951 could only race in the Porsche Open series.
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I don’t regret selling the 951 race car, though. It was a great car, and one of the lightest, albeit standard engine and no different map trickery; it handled really well but just a bit too difficult and expensive to get parts for at my budget level.
Before I bought it, Jamie Chadwick had used it in Ireland when she was chasing signatures ahead of her British GT4 title winning season.
I would have loved to have taken mine to Augment Automotive for their ecu and wastegate work but I just couldn’t really afford and justify it.
I have a Caterham now, which I love.
I’ve no idea where all this BS came from, the electronics on a 944 are primitive and I can see no way of connecting what the front wheels are doing to alter anything on the engine. On Bob Watson’s rolling road (the championship approved RR) the 951’s delivered 250 bhp plus or minus x%. As soon as the car was on the track there was some form of rotary switch on the front wheels which led to a different map being used and more power.
The racers argued they were legal as the regs stated 250bhp on BW’s RR, which they gave. PCGB could not prove otherwise but eventually mandated that the 951 could only race in the Porsche Open series.
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I don’t regret selling the 951 race car, though. It was a great car, and one of the lightest, albeit standard engine and no different map trickery; it handled really well but just a bit too difficult and expensive to get parts for at my budget level.
Before I bought it, Jamie Chadwick had used it in Ireland when she was chasing signatures ahead of her British GT4 title winning season.
I would have loved to have taken mine to Augment Automotive for their ecu and wastegate work but I just couldn’t really afford and justify it.
I have a Caterham now, which I love.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 15th April 10:28
I had my car on bob Watson’s rr for a full day with Steve Kevlin in attendance, we tried all sorts of boost levels and it made a bit of difference to the top end power but the torque would get the most benefit.
We controlled the boost by putting different size carburettor jets in the waste gate bleed pipe, all legal, the club had recording meters made up that would measure boost pressure 4 times every second, how are you are supposed to control the boost pressure 4 times per second with a waste gate spring and bleed off pipe !
We would get the boost pressure at a circuit set just below the legal limit and it would be fine only to go to the next meeting and the boost pressure would be well under or over and then you have to mess about resetting the boost again, there were far too many outside parameters to accurately set the boost to get the readings on the meters stabilised.
The recording meters were years newer in technology than the cars and we suspected the meters were not calibrated to one another, after along trip to Spa I was put at the back of the grid for over boost, I was getting really pissed off by this time and insisted on having two boost meters fitted so we could read the outcomes..........both were completely different and I got my places back from
Previous meetings were I’d supposedly gone over boost .
After this I lost interest, it was clear the club were constantly trying to slow the turbo’s down so the newer 993/996 looked better, also bear in mind in those days the turbo wasn’t a cheap car but far less than a 993/996 but to prepare one as a race car cost just the same.
Cheers Chris
Thank you for great viewing Chris. I don't think many people my age would known how special those 944 turbo were if its wasn't for you because in 1988/89 there were so many nicer more modern alternatives coming out like 964 C2, NSX, GTR, RX7, 3000GT to name a few.
Obviously someone high up at Porsche forgot to tell you not to win. Super driving what a legend!
Obviously someone high up at Porsche forgot to tell you not to win. Super driving what a legend!
I've got a 43,000 mile Ur Quattro 20 valve - and I agree that it's a sublime drive on B roads.
It's compliant long-travel suspension "breathes" with the road - a totally different feeling to today's "stiff-legged short-travel suspension" with it's trackday bias.
A 951 on modern suspension would be better suited to the track, but for a drive through the twisties the Ur Quattro remains something special.
My brother has a LHD '81 Ur Quattro, replete with factory Fuchs 7" magnesium wheels, wind-up windows, cable diff locks & rear anti-roll bar. It's light (about 1240 kg), raw and a riot to drive.
Back in the '90's my parents in New Zealand had a couple of Ur Quattros & in the driving conditions of the South Island they were just sensational.
It's compliant long-travel suspension "breathes" with the road - a totally different feeling to today's "stiff-legged short-travel suspension" with it's trackday bias.
A 951 on modern suspension would be better suited to the track, but for a drive through the twisties the Ur Quattro remains something special.
My brother has a LHD '81 Ur Quattro, replete with factory Fuchs 7" magnesium wheels, wind-up windows, cable diff locks & rear anti-roll bar. It's light (about 1240 kg), raw and a riot to drive.
Back in the '90's my parents in New Zealand had a couple of Ur Quattros & in the driving conditions of the South Island they were just sensational.
ted 191 said:
andy97 said:
Yes, I was told that, too, by “Chipwizards” who may have been involved!!!
On Bob Watson’s rolling road (the championship approved RR) the 951’s delivered 250 bhp plus or minus x%. As soon as the car was on the track there was some form of rotary switch on the front wheels which led to a different map being used and more power.
The racers argued they were legal as the regs stated 250bhp on BW’s RR, which they gave. PCGB could not prove otherwise but eventually mandated that the 951 could only race in the Porsche Open series.
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I don’t regret selling the 951 race car, though. It was a great car, and one of the lightest, albeit standard engine and no different map trickery; it handled really well but just a bit too difficult and expensive to get parts for at my budget level.
Before I bought it, Jamie Chadwick had used it in Ireland when she was chasing signatures ahead of her British GT4 title winning season.
I would have loved to have taken mine to Augment Automotive for their ecu and wastegate work but I just couldn’t really afford and justify it.
I have a Caterham now, which I love.
I’ve no idea where all this BS came from, the electronics on a 944 are primitive and I can see no way of connecting what the front wheels are doing to alter anything on the engine.On Bob Watson’s rolling road (the championship approved RR) the 951’s delivered 250 bhp plus or minus x%. As soon as the car was on the track there was some form of rotary switch on the front wheels which led to a different map being used and more power.
The racers argued they were legal as the regs stated 250bhp on BW’s RR, which they gave. PCGB could not prove otherwise but eventually mandated that the 951 could only race in the Porsche Open series.
I am another one that regrets selling my road car but was under pressure from Mrs 97 to sell either the 951 or my ur Quattro. I kept the right car but wish I had kept both.
I don’t regret selling the 951 race car, though. It was a great car, and one of the lightest, albeit standard engine and no different map trickery; it handled really well but just a bit too difficult and expensive to get parts for at my budget level.
Before I bought it, Jamie Chadwick had used it in Ireland when she was chasing signatures ahead of her British GT4 title winning season.
I would have loved to have taken mine to Augment Automotive for their ecu and wastegate work but I just couldn’t really afford and justify it.
I have a Caterham now, which I love.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 15th April 10:28
Cheers Chris
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