944 turbo, underrated?
Discussion
andy97 said:
Chris, the “BS” came straight from the horses mouth, Wayne Schofield (aka “Chipwards”j an extremely clever bloke.
I know Wayne very well, funny he never told me, or anybody else at the time and if he could get the ABS ecu to talk to the engine ecu, he really would be a wizard.bigmowley said:
Still a nice car but for me the worst bit is the driving position. It’s a bit like being sat in the bath. Very flat outstretched legs and an slightly odd steering wheel position.
Cue 50 people telling me I’ve got my head up my bum so IMHO of course
That DOES sound uncomfortable!Cue 50 people telling me I’ve got my head up my bum so IMHO of course
blade7 said:
andy97 said:
I kept the Quattro because it is a completely iconic and awesome car!
The 951 is a great (and massively underrated) car but not a patch on the quattro. On dry roads across country I would still take the q! The handling and ride quality on twisty B roads is awesome. And, of course, on a wet or winter road the 951 would not know where it had gone. A track day would be a different matter, though. I really love the 951 but the Quattro is one of THE all time greats.
I don't drive my 944 turbo on wet roads, and with only 200 odd bhp quattro doesn't make a huge difference in the dry. I'd be quite surprised if your ur Quattro matched something like a well driven 400 bhp RS3 on a twisty B road....The 951 is a great (and massively underrated) car but not a patch on the quattro. On dry roads across country I would still take the q! The handling and ride quality on twisty B roads is awesome. And, of course, on a wet or winter road the 951 would not know where it had gone. A track day would be a different matter, though. I really love the 951 but the Quattro is one of THE all time greats.
blade7 said:
andy97 said:
I have never driven an RS3, nor a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 so cant comment. I have driven both an ur Quattro and a 951 on track days, main roads and cross country on twisty B roads and that’s what we were commenting on.
I've compared the RS3 to my 944 turbo a few times, both myself and my friend were quite surprised that there was very little difference. Your track day comment suggests the 944 can't cope with a few bumps on the road. My experience based on running KW suspension for 10 years is it can. I also said that the quattro was better in the wet, whereas you admitted you didn’t drive your 951 in those conditions.
I have repeatedly said I love both cars and wish I still had both, but because I could realistically only keep one of them I kept the one that I consider to be the more iconic car (rally history etc) and is the better one for me in all conditions, and I maintain that A-B across country I would getter there quicker in the quattro. On a track day, the reverse is true.
blade7 said:
andy97 said:
I maintain that A-B across country I would getter there quicker in the quattro. On a track day, the reverse is true.
I think that is more related to your driving, than the capabilities of the 2 cars.I have direct experience of both cars on the same roads and tracks. You do not.
blade7 said:
andy97 said:
I have direct experience of both cars on the same roads and tracks. You do not.
Sounds like your 944 was knackered.And the instructor i used to take with me, a former Britcar champion and British GT4 racer was also impressed by the car on track.
Penguin racer appears to agree with me on overall capabilities.
The Ur Quattro was a technologically more adventurous car than the 951.
If I compare my cars - they're both 1990 - but the Quattro is twin cam, 4-valves per cylinder, sequential injection & ignition, water-cooled turbo, switchable ABS & the suspension was set-up by Jorge Bensinger who went on to engineer the suspension for the E30 M3.
Once you're on demanding, twisty, heavily cambered, undulating & variously surfaced roads in all weathers then the Quattro's suspension compliance, travel, traction & reduced lag (max torque comes in at 1950 rpm for the 20 valve) make it one of the great driver's cars.
If I compare my cars - they're both 1990 - but the Quattro is twin cam, 4-valves per cylinder, sequential injection & ignition, water-cooled turbo, switchable ABS & the suspension was set-up by Jorge Bensinger who went on to engineer the suspension for the E30 M3.
Once you're on demanding, twisty, heavily cambered, undulating & variously surfaced roads in all weathers then the Quattro's suspension compliance, travel, traction & reduced lag (max torque comes in at 1950 rpm for the 20 valve) make it one of the great driver's cars.
I've used an Ur Quattro in the snow a good bit (New Zealand).
I'd summarise to say that the 951 is the better choice for tuning for the track but as road car for driving on interesting roads, as opposed to motorways, A-roads & dual carriageways, the Ur Quattro is one of the greats.
It's also supremely stable at high speed & tracks arrow-straight at max speed. I recall getting airborne off an undulation at 140 mph at a certain location (not the UK) trundling home in the dead of night - and it was so stable it wasn't remotely concerning. The revs rose as the wheels spun, it touched down easily without bottoming out & continued on as if it was nothing.
Go to Harry's Garage & look at his reviews of both the Quattro Sport & the Ur Quattro - they have him grinning from ear-to-ear with their relaxed compliance, grip & confidence-inspiring handling.
I'd summarise to say that the 951 is the better choice for tuning for the track but as road car for driving on interesting roads, as opposed to motorways, A-roads & dual carriageways, the Ur Quattro is one of the greats.
It's also supremely stable at high speed & tracks arrow-straight at max speed. I recall getting airborne off an undulation at 140 mph at a certain location (not the UK) trundling home in the dead of night - and it was so stable it wasn't remotely concerning. The revs rose as the wheels spun, it touched down easily without bottoming out & continued on as if it was nothing.
Go to Harry's Garage & look at his reviews of both the Quattro Sport & the Ur Quattro - they have him grinning from ear-to-ear with their relaxed compliance, grip & confidence-inspiring handling.
Paul, as enthusiasts (and no one is coming down on the 951 here, as it is perhaps one of the most underrated Porsches) surely most of us agree that while performance moves one such that prosaic family vehicles ultimately attain the performance of yesterday's supercars, it is the look, feel, sound and sensation of speed which makes the old aristocrats special, which elevates them above the humdrum.
Sure an Impreza or Evo will give a GTB275/4 cam a bloody nose - but which will feel more special to drive? Which will provide that feel good factor?
One acid test would be - It's the end of the world & you've been allocated the last gallon of fuel to drive just one internal combustion engined car - what will it be?
Tim
Sure an Impreza or Evo will give a GTB275/4 cam a bloody nose - but which will feel more special to drive? Which will provide that feel good factor?
One acid test would be - It's the end of the world & you've been allocated the last gallon of fuel to drive just one internal combustion engined car - what will it be?
Tim
Hi Paul, I made no claim that the Ur Quattro was faster than anything. Please quote where I made such a claim. My comment was just that the Ur Quattro is an extremely dynamic & enjoyable road car. I’ll leave it there as that was all I was saying based on my experience.
I think the 951 adapts well to the track & the Ur Quattro is truly enjoyable on challenging roads.
To me there’s no competition between them, like most automotive choices, people have subjective preferences.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, I think the 951 has become more highly appreciated over the last four years & that has been reflected in an uplift in their values which hopefully results in more of them being restored or at least better maintained .
I think the 951 adapts well to the track & the Ur Quattro is truly enjoyable on challenging roads.
To me there’s no competition between them, like most automotive choices, people have subjective preferences.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, I think the 951 has become more highly appreciated over the last four years & that has been reflected in an uplift in their values which hopefully results in more of them being restored or at least better maintained .
blade7 said:
Penguinracer said:
I'd summarise to say that the 951 is the better choice for tuning for the track but as road car for driving on interesting roads, as opposed to motorways, A-roads & dual carriageways, the Ur Quattro is one of the greats.
Prove it...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes-t...
Just saw this thread,
I ran a 944 Turbo S in the 2010 CSCC Future Classic series as a complete novice, it was road legal converted road car and had only light performance mods and ran a safe unstressed 1 bar boost with a simple and economical GAZ race suspension.
Raced for a whole season with no DNF, was very competitive against some proper dedicated racecars on similar road tyres, Lotus Esprit( full monty racecar), various 911s,Aston Martin,928s and it generally held its own against some experienced "known"pilots..
My response to OP question ,yes its massively underrated and Huge fun to drive quickly, It finished the Spa summer classic 1 hr race up amongst the Caterhams and came first in the future Classics class in that race, in torrential rain and on road tyres .
Raced a 968 for 4 years after was not quite as much fun, would love to race a 944 turbo again one day. Still got a couple of road versions so maybe i am biased..
I ran a 944 Turbo S in the 2010 CSCC Future Classic series as a complete novice, it was road legal converted road car and had only light performance mods and ran a safe unstressed 1 bar boost with a simple and economical GAZ race suspension.
Raced for a whole season with no DNF, was very competitive against some proper dedicated racecars on similar road tyres, Lotus Esprit( full monty racecar), various 911s,Aston Martin,928s and it generally held its own against some experienced "known"pilots..
My response to OP question ,yes its massively underrated and Huge fun to drive quickly, It finished the Spa summer classic 1 hr race up amongst the Caterhams and came first in the future Classics class in that race, in torrential rain and on road tyres .
Raced a 968 for 4 years after was not quite as much fun, would love to race a 944 turbo again one day. Still got a couple of road versions so maybe i am biased..
Gassing Station | Front Engined Porsches | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff