Retro 911's

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Discussion

Blue62

Original Poster:

8,746 posts

151 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
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I recently put a deposit down on a GT3 but am having second thoughts, I'm a 911 fan and have owned seven of them over the years, all from new with my first (and favourite) being a 993 C2 in 1996, my last was a 991S with PDK which was stupid fast but a bit too detached for my tastes.

I am beginning to wonder whether I will find the GT3 a little too quick and uninvolving and have started thinking about going the Paul Stephens or Autofarm route. I don't really want a classic, though I love them and could be persuaded, but I'm not a great mechanic and had a very expensive episode with an Elan Sprint some years ago which puts me off somewhat. I am seriously thinking of backing out of the GT3 and going back to the drawing board, so I'd be interested to know if anyone has direct experience of how these revised classics drive and what they're like to own. My thanks in advance.

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
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Are you thinking of stuff like the PS Autoart cars?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

To me they are simply hot-rodded 964s and each is likely to be very different. I suspect the one in the ad should be good. Nice power, nice stopping, if it's done well it should handle well too. Lot of money, could you build one like that for 90k? Probably not if you are having the work done

But very much down to personal taste.

Bert

Cheib

23,110 posts

174 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
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Personally don’t like the Paul Stephens “look” definitely prefer what Autofarm do. Would also consider the liked of Rennsport and Tuthill too. RPM have also started to get into this market too.

Be very interested to see how you get on as it’s something I am interested in doing at some stage.

Definitely much cheaper to buy one that someone else has already have done than do it yourself.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
quotequote all
Blue62 said:
I recently put a deposit down on a GT3 but am having second thoughts, I'm a 911 fan and have owned seven of them over the years, all from new with my first (and favourite) being a 993 C2 in 1996, my last was a 991S with PDK which was stupid fast but a bit too detached for my tastes.

I am beginning to wonder whether I will find the GT3 a little too quick and uninvolving and have started thinking about going the Paul Stephens or Autofarm route. I don't really want a classic, though I love them and could be persuaded, but I'm not a great mechanic and had a very expensive episode with an Elan Sprint some years ago which puts me off somewhat. I am seriously thinking of backing out of the GT3 and going back to the drawing board, so I'd be interested to know if anyone has direct experience of how these revised classics drive and what they're like to own. My thanks in advance.
It’s tricky as a kit car is never worth the cost imo, maybe now when a 964rs is £200k a modern look bitsa might feel like value, but when you think about it, there is very little value in these remakes from old sc shells imo.

Rather a £50k 964 at least it is what it is and most people can look after them, then if you feel you want to tweak it at least you can do bits as and when to your own liking.

I myself after owning way too many cars, just think not a lot can match the 987.2 Spyder, it’s new enough to not let you down, but old enough to interact with, keep the spec light weight and that also means not a lot to go wrong, no AC to smell like dead cats, no outdated PCM to fail and no electric seats to break. AC, , condensers, rads, and electric are always 1st to go.

Would you ever be happy with a back date and fake model/badge when you can still buy the real deals ? I agree that any GT3 you buy you won't get the best from.

PGNSagaris

2,926 posts

165 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
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I’m biased but I love what RPM Technik do. I have owned a few flavours of 911 and my brother has a 996 GT3 which I use but for me, the CSR, as a drivers tool, is miles ahead of PS Art stuff.

The 6.GT3 is still the daddy but I prefer the way my car looks and it’s considerably cheaper.



kevs 172

344 posts

188 months

Saturday 21st April 2018
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You can’t beat a tweaked 964 C2 manual, they are just such good fun.

Blue62

Original Poster:

8,746 posts

151 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Thanks for the responses, interesting comment about the 987 as it's on my radar along with the 981 but my love for the 911 will probably mean that I will always be looking over my shoulder. I may take a trip up to the Cotswolds and take in Autofarm and Rennsport (they have a very nice 911s on their website) to start the ball rolling. I may be better off looking for a sorted 993 or 964 and finding someone to keep it running at its best. Keep you posted and thanks again for your interest.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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PGNSagaris said:
I’m biased but I love what RPM Technik do. I have owned a few flavours of 911 and my brother has a 996 GT3 which I use but for me, the CSR, as a drivers tool, is miles ahead of PS Art stuff.

The 6.GT3 is still the daddy but I prefer the way my car looks and it’s considerably cheaper.


What PS cars have you driven? I was very impressed with the one I drove.

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Nothing beats old aircooled...out for run yesterday in ST. Turn it up

https://youtu.be/5N6Ei_OfcN4


kevs 172

344 posts

188 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
Robbo66 said:
Nothing beats old aircooled...out for run yesterday in ST. Turn it up

https://youtu.be/5N6Ei_OfcN4

That’s lovely, I’ve been using my 964 C2 loads over the last three weeks, I can’t stay out of it at the moment!
Cheers

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Nice looking car. Interestingly my 964 is still the most driven hooner that I own. A well sorted air cooled is about as good as it gets for character and engagement

If you want something more modern, As said earlier, the spyder and 996 hot rods are worth a look.

PGNSagaris

2,926 posts

165 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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rubystone said:
What PS cars have you driven? I was very impressed with the one I drove.
This one.

https://www.paul-stephens.com/prestige-cars/PS-Lig...

Looks cool, but to drive, I’d always choose
my CSR.

Which did you get out in?


Geneve

3,857 posts

218 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Agree about the absolute brilliance of a really nice 'aircooled' - especially when the sun shines. And, they're well suited to the UK's very mixed roads. You can enjoy the fun and involvement at sensible speeds.

However, the market does prefer originality, and any modded 'retros' need to be done correctly to satisfy discerning secondary buyers. I've seen numerous horrible examples, and only a few done nicely, and that normally involves cost, so it's not a cheap option.


MrVert

4,394 posts

238 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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I had one of the green Tutthill cars, which was done to an incredible standard, the engine alone was a masterpiece with Jenvey throttle bodies, the whole car was just set up brilliantly and it looked fab.



In today's world where the cars are getting faster year by year, they seem to lose that connectivitity with the driver a little more each time a new model comes out...so the old cars do give you more fun and involvement at much lower speeds. I went from a GT3 to 'Kermit' and didn't miss the GT at all. It was just great fun pretty much all of the time. You could really enjoy the whole experience at 50mph rather than having to get to stupid speeds to even get near the cars limits.

A friend fancied having one created so went to one of the companies listed above.....ended up with an absolute dog of a car and had to threaten legal action to get his money back. Basically sub standard paint job, corners were cut everywhere, the car was sent to JZM for evaluation and they said it was in a terrible state and indeed would not even stick it in their showroom...!

So they're great fun to drive, the selection of what you want and the build process will be brilliant and you'll end up with effectively a bespoke car.

I'd definitely recommend Tutthill or Autofarm for top results, but to get a great car it will cost you approx. £100k + these days.

Regarding value for the future, you'll struggle to get your money back but if done properly and to the right spec may be a safe bet for lowish depreciation.

thumbup

Blue62

Original Poster:

8,746 posts

151 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
Thanks MrVert, useful advice and your comments about the speed of modern cars and fun resonate with me, my last 911 was only a thrill when you were pushing way beyond what is sensible on a public highway.

I like the idea of a older car with a few modern touches, better brakes, suspension tweaks and a little more power but in essence I want the car to be 'original'. With a budget of @120k (maximum) I'd be interested to know what folk would go for (and with who).

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Blue62 said:
Thanks MrVert, useful advice and your comments about the speed of modern cars and fun resonate with me, my last 911 was only a thrill when you were pushing way beyond what is sensible on a public highway.

I like the idea of a older car with a few modern touches, better brakes, suspension tweaks and a little more power but in essence I want the car to be 'original'. With a budget of @120k (maximum) I'd be interested to know what folk would go for (and with who).
I'd go 964 C2 or 996 C2. With a £120k you could build a stunning 964 which would be completely sorted in the engine dept (3.8/320 + hp) suspension (Ohlins, JRZ's, KW's) brakes, seats, interior etc.

Something like this but with an engine build/upgrade :

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/904951-my-96...

Or for half your budget you could get Richard to build you one of his 996 or 997 based masterpieces :

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=106137



Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
I'd go 964 C2 or 996 C2. With a £120k you could build a stunning 964 which would be completely sorted in the engine dept (3.8/320 + hp) suspension (Ohlins, JRZ's, KW's) brakes, seats, interior etc.

Something like this but with an engine build/upgrade :

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/904951-my-96...

Or for half your budget you could get Richard to build you one of his 996 or 997 based masterpieces :

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=106137
have you decided what Project to take on now the suns come out ?

I think I need to ask Steve Rance for a go in his 964 this summer.


MrVert

4,394 posts

238 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
For that sort of budget, you should be able to do something similar to this:

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

I'd definitely be on the phone to Tutthill, they do the best backdate / restomods I've seen.

If you decide to do it.....you'll have to do a build thread! thumbup

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
have you decided what Project to take on now the suns come out ?

I think I need to ask Steve Rance for a go in his 964 this summer.
Drove the RPM Technik 981 CSR, and almost did a high spec 981 S based, Jens tuned 3.8 X51 powerkit engine conversion build, but bottled it.
Thought about doing the same with a Gen 2 987 S, but tbh the 987 R/S chassis didn’t really need another 100hp !! It was plenty quick enough in standard form.
Toyed with a 964/993 RS Evocation build, but the right (LHD non-sunroof) base cars aren’t cheap.

New project purchased, though currently being “fettled”. It’s watercooled and has a large dose (currently 500hp) of non-standard N/A horsepower yikes

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
quotequote all
PGNSagaris said:
This one.

https://www.paul-stephens.com/prestige-cars/PS-Lig...

Looks cool, but to drive, I’d always choose
my CSR.

Which did you get out in?
Classic Touring