964. Time to shake her up a bit.

964. Time to shake her up a bit.

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Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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With my GTS gone I am left with the 964 C2 alone as a hooning car. Whilst I am pleased with the way she looks and handles, I do feel she needs tickling up on the performance front. For some context she's running on Bilstein PSS10s, Poweflex bushes and lovely lightweight 17" Fuchs. Geometry has been set by Center Gravity with a ride height of RS +5mm. I've removed the stereo and speakers, spare tyre, jack and whatnot and will remove the rear wiper and motor this winter. Everything else is standard apart from a cat bypass pipe.

I want her to fire out of corners like a bullet, squatting down on her haunches as she goes. I want to pull out of junctions sideways (childish I know but I don't want to go gently into that dark night). I want her to be heard coming down the lovely deserted Welsh roads that are our stamping ground. I want her to be hard and angry and gravel rashy 'cos she'll be the kind of car that wants thrashing every time you get in her.

I guess she'll need harder engine mounts, a stiffer ARB and a strut brace for the front. 310bhp would be good. Can this be done with a chip and some mods to the airbox and exhaust? What about a lightweight flywheel? A LSD is a must, as is a short shift kit. Given that she's on 86k miles with no engine work would it be worth going the whole hog and getting the engine fettled by the likes of Redtek, 9E or Autofarm? And what about brakes, some Pole Positions, RS door cards...

Anyone care to offer advice so that I can start setting up my war chest?


IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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Worth having a read through this. I always found the stock motor on mine pulled like a train with lots of torque. Certainly felt more than 250bhp. I'd try a remap first and take some weight out. Light weight seats, door cards , rear seat delete, etc. Mine had a LSD optioned so was lucky. Steve Rance is based near you I think - maybe reach out to him as he's gone down this route. Subscribed!

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/m...

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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Sounds fun, lw fly from the RS seems very common.
I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)


Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
Sounds fun, lw fly from the RS seems very common.
I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)
Probably my age. Probably not very PC now either. 'It' seems rather impersonal given the emotional investment.

Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
quotequote all
IMI A said:
Worth having a read through this. I always found the stock motor on mine pulled like a train with lots of torque. Certainly felt more than 250bhp. I'd try a remap first and take some weight out. Light weight seats, door cards , rear seat delete, etc. Mine had a LSD optioned so was lucky. Steve Rance is based near you I think - maybe reach out to him as he's gone down this route. Subscribed!

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/m...
Thanks IMI A. I did used to be in East Anglia but am now in the borders between England and Wales. Steve Rance's car is certainly an inspiration though. I am really not sure about doing major engine work and suspect, as you suggest, that removing weight will have good effect. The Porsche sports seats are very comfortable though...

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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IMI A said:
Worth having a read through this. I always found the stock motor on mine pulled like a train with lots of torque. Certainly felt more than 250bhp. I'd try a remap first and take some weight out. Light weight seats, door cards , rear seat delete, etc. Mine had a LSD optioned so was lucky. Steve Rance is based near you I think - maybe reach out to him as he's gone down this route. Subscribed!

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/m...
Perfect gearing I, unlike some of the rubbish Porsche foist upon their unsuspecting buyers these days...
Remap, decat, Cup pipe and lightweight flywheel pretty are much all you need to have fun on UK roads, though for added aural stimulation (phnarr, I said aural, not oral) you may want to drill the airbox too (just make sure you've got an unmolested original to replace it with should you need to.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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Porsche911R said:
I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)
Funny that, I always find it disturbing when someone makes comments such as this ^ on a public forum, just shows any degree of normal social etiquette disappears when some individuals get behind a keyboard...

ras62

1,086 posts

155 months

Saturday 15th September 2018
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964's do respond well to mods, LWF probably the most obvious from a driving point of view. Standard brakes are good but big red/blacks on 993 turbo rotors are on another level. Fabulous. A bit of weight saving is fairly easy, rear seats, no undertray. LSD nice especially in the wet. Carefull on using a cup pipe though as the final silencer is likely to split.
Engine is a tough one. Its very likely your car will have worn exhaust valve guides but that in itself is no big deal. Ive just had mine rebuilt at Unit Eleven with some mods. The results are superb and no doubt significantly cheaper than many of the ones mentioned. 285 bhp at the wheels is impressive but the standout is the torque curve. It pulls hard from 1500 rpm and tbh totally changes the way the car can be driven. It simply drives away from a standard car at any revs.

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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Slippydiff said:
Porsche911R said:
I always find it disturbing when people talk about their cars as a “her”
I must say I have petrol for blood but a cars a car, not a girl. :-)
Funny that, I always find it disturbing when someone makes comments such as this ^ on a public forum, just shows any degree of normal social etiquette disappears when some individuals get behind a keyboard...
I wouldn't worry about her. She's just jealous she doesn't have an air cooled smile !!!!!

Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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The car needs a service too so the ideal would be to give it to someone to do everything at once. Someone mentioned to me that JAZ do something called 'hot sleeving', including exhaust, airbox, mapping, flywheel, diff etc. Would they be a good choice to do the work? On the possible list of candidates, assuming I'm not going down the engine out route, would be; Autofarm, Tuthill, RPM & JAZ. Any advice on who would do a first class job and have a not too eye watering hourly rate?

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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All of those indies are top notch. I'd add Tech 9 to the list with them being so near and if you don't mind travelling 9e I've always found open and transparent and very easy to do business with and helpful - 9e did me a massive favour on mechanical repairs after an off on track earlier in the year. Both owners of 9e and Tech 9 have lots of knowledge around 964s too having owned them and I think the Tech 9 owner raced them. Ken/9e at Spa at least a few times a year with a supercharged 964 and a 964 C2. Think he helped Slippy with his 964 too. JZM very good too. All have similar hourly rates but best to find someone you get on with and trust. My 993 goes to Porsche Torque via 911V again very helpful and light on the wallet.

Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
quotequote all
IMI A said:
All of those indies are top notch. I'd add Tech 9 to the list with them being so near and if you don't mind travelling 9e I've always found open and transparent and very easy to do business with and helpful - 9e did me a massive favour on mechanical repairs after an off on track earlier in the year. Both owners of 9e and Tech 9 have lots of knowledge around 964s too having owned them and I think the Tech 9 owner raced them. Ken/9e at Spa at least a few times a year with a supercharged 964 and a 964 C2. Think he helped Slippy with his 964 too. JZM very good too. All have similar hourly rates but best to find someone you get on with and trust. My 993 goes to Porsche Torque via 911V again very helpful and light on the wallet.
Very useful information IMI A, thank you - I'll start ringing round on Monday. Must say I'm very excited about the whole thing. Hope it delivers on expectation in the end.

ras62

1,086 posts

155 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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Where are you based Langauer?

Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
quotequote all
ras62 said:
Where are you based Langauer?
North West Herefordshire, which seems a barren area for Porsche specialists. Happy to travel to the right specialist though.

skullcandy

57 posts

67 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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I spoke to Chris of Fenn Lane Motorsport the other day and was really impressed with his robust advice and no nonsense desire for people to not waste money. He seemed to really know his stuff on engines and sounded very reasonable on prices. Has anyone used him for a engine rebuild?

SignalGruen

630 posts

199 months

Sunday 16th September 2018
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Lungauer said:
ras62 said:
Where are you based Langauer?
North West Herefordshire, which seems a barren area for Porsche specialists. Happy to travel to the right specialist though.
Unit 11 in Warrington for the mechanical bits and Chipwizards/Wayne Schofield (who is also up North) for the remap imo. No BS approach and good value.

Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Monday 17th September 2018
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Thanks all for these very useful suggestions. Time to start planning in earnest...

Jevvy

232 posts

168 months

Monday 17th September 2018
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Is the engine using much oil? Does it leak much? If the answer to this is no and no I'd very much encourage you to not open it up and instead spend money on other areas like LW flywheel, engine mounts, remap etc.

Good luck with your project, keep us posted with your plans.


Lungauer

Original Poster:

293 posts

151 months

Monday 17th September 2018
quotequote all
Jevvy said:
Is the engine using much oil? Does it leak much? If the answer to this is no and no I'd very much encourage you to not open it up and instead spend money on other areas like LW flywheel, engine mounts, remap etc.

Good luck with your project, keep us posted with your plans.
Hmm. That is a good question. It is using some oil, but they do have something of a tendency for this. It doesn't look unusually oily in the engine bay and isn't leaving anything on the garage floor, though I am aware that oil can be collected in the undertray. However at the weekend when I pulled up at a junction I was passed by a small cloud of my own blue smoke, which did smell rather oily. Didn't notice anything after this and the car still pulls strongly (and nothing has come up at service), but it does make me wonder whether the valve guides are on the way out, which would alter the case somewhat. If it does need a top end rebuild then it would make sense to use the opportunity to get some performance gains at the same time. An unjaundiced opinion from an expert needed I think.

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Monday 17th September 2018
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I'd keep the engine standard providing the compression test comes back good. These engines offer a poor bhp reward per £ spent. I'd drop the engine, change to a LWF and change the clutch while you are about it. These cars respond well to weight savings and sharper brakes and suspension. My build is on here somewhere. It may prove a useful source of information.

Good luck - and dont forget to keep all of the bits that you remove during the build