Which Porsche would you modify/hot rod and why?

[Heathrow]

My choice would be the oft overlooked 996 GT3.

KW v3s
Manthey K400 engine upgrade
50kg of weight removed (lightweight doors from the cup car, carbon fibre frunk lid etc.)
LWFW
4.0 RS clutch
Cup diff
997 GT3 headers/cats
Short shift + 997 GT3 RS cables
Cup rear bumper with centre exhausts
Sharkwerks track exhaust or similar
Rubystone red glass out respray
Bespoke interior - something with the design ethos and material style from a Singer but using the standard GT3 dash etc.

I commissioned an RPM Technik 996.2 CSR a few years ago and currently have a 996.2 GT3 and can see real potential in a bd of the two!!

[Heathrow]

Forgot to add: Surface Transforms Ceramics!

[Slippydiff]

Heathrow said:

My choice would be the oft overlooked 996 GT3.

KW v3s
Manthey K400 engine upgrade
50kg of weight removed (lightweight doors from the cup car, carbon fibre frunk lid etc.)
LWFW
4.0 RS clutch
Cup diff
997 GT3 headers/cats
Short shift + 997 GT3 RS cables
Cup rear bumper with centre exhausts
Sharkwerks track exhaust or similar
Rubystone red glass out respray
Bespoke interior - something with the design ethos and material style from a Singer but using the standard GT3 dash etc.

I commissioned an RPM Technik 996.2 CSR a few years ago and currently have a 996.2 GT3 and can see real potential in a bd of the two!!

The Manthey K400 conversion would give you a complete exhaust, along with manifolds and cats far superior to the 997 GT3 items. No need for any of Alex's track exhaust stuff either.

Here's a full fat Manthey K400 soundtrack for you :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3J8HeIfJwc

And a rare (as in the only one ever produced) Mk1 996 GT3 in Rubystone :

[Heathrow]

Bloody hell - how good does that sound?!

[lemmingjames]

Heathrow said:

Bloody hell - how good does that sound?!

Are you part of the GT3 Facebook groups? Im guessing you're based around Heathrow?

Also, when did plan old modifying a car be known as a hot rod?

[Harris_I]

Cunno said:

Harris_I said:

I went down that route. 996.2 GT3, stripped out interior, full roll cage, carbon panels from GT-Racing in the US, Manthey KW suspension, Alcon brakes. I think I got it down to around 1220kg in its prime IIRC. In retrospect, I should have started with a Cup car, although at least this has number plates. It's not road friendly even though I put the carpets and AC back in, so it is criminally under-used I'm ashamed to say.

Harris I

Do you have a breakdown of what was done and the kg saving per item? Did you weigh car at start and finish or is this weight 1220kg estimated?

I remember your 996 from the TD at Donny last year it was going well.

The car was weighed before and after, but I'm afraid the only number I remember is 1220! So I guess that's a minimum 100kg saving, but it could be more. I don't know the saving per item but the breakdown of the weight related parts was:

- No carpets, heater or AC
- Carbon doors, mirrors, front wings (fenders), bonnet, rear wing and decklid, fibre glass splitter
- Plastic door windows, three quarter windows and rear screen
- One race seat with harness, full welded roll cage (that added a chunk of weight back on!)

In retrospect I would have chosen better quality windows as 10 years later they are slightly milky.

When I put the car back on the road, I reverted to the original leather Recaros, and reinstalled the heater, AC and carpets. I reverted to glass at the back and 3/4 as the plastic wobbled like mad.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Yellow491 said:

Its been fun driving and developing my hotrod,eats gt3 for breakfast and nibbles a gt3rs for lunch,proper lwt/bhp ratio

If that doesn't set your underpants on fire I don't know what can. What a beast

[Slippydiff]

Heathrow said:

Bloody hell - how good does that sound?!

Not bad ay ?

And from the inside :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0iRmXS6q4

And my old K400 car in the wilds of Wales @ 2 mins 56 and @ 4 mins 12 :

https://youtu.be/PeHWqBAt_rk?t=175

https://youtu.be/PeHWqBAt_rk?t=245

[Cunno]

Harris_I said:

The car was weighed before and after, but I'm afraid the only number I remember is 1220! So I guess that's a minimum 100kg saving, but it could be more. I don't know the saving per item but the breakdown of the weight related parts was:

- No carpets, heater or AC
- Carbon doors, mirrors, front wings (fenders), bonnet, rear wing and decklid, fibre glass splitter
- Plastic door windows, three quarter windows and rear screen
- One race seat with harness, full welded roll cage (that added a chunk of weight back on!)

In retrospect I would have chosen better quality windows as 10 years later they are slightly milky.

When I put the car back on the road, I reverted to the original leather Recaros, and reinstalled the heater, AC and carpets. I reverted to glass at the back and 3/4 as the plastic wobbled like mad.

Thanks for the input, took some weight out of mine 18 moths ago about 50kg was going to do carpet , door cards and A/C but decided that would be a sep to fare for my needs. No where near 1220kg though

[Cheib]

BertBert said:

Yes, I think it's going in the right direction. If you get a rebuild, you know what you get. Anyone else's rebuild is a bit of a lottery, so it's a risk.

But to rebuild my 2.0 to the spec I'd want, adding MFI would end up being £30k. It would be awesome though.

So for me ultimate bhp isn't my thing. Good balance and (low) grip, with slightly more bhp than grip is perfect. You can wring the neck of the car and get the front and rear moving and control it with the right foot and steering. Absolute low speed fun.

My mantra isn't you can never have enough power. It's have the least power than can overwhelm small tyres. Fun is not proportional to bhp!

Bert

I remember listening to an interview with Richard Tuthill who clearly has a very nice business making hot rods for people...he said the car he’d build for himself would be a narrow body 2.0 car because of the balance of power and grip that you describe. He described a “vicious circle” where you put ST or RS arches and thus bigger wheels on so you put a bigger engine because you have more grip. The whole thing weighs more so because of that and the more powerful engine you need bigger brakes.

[Steve Rance]

Some lovely ideas here. I’m looking at road making my 997 cup road legal. Swapping out the sequential box for a 996/7 gt3 or 996 cup, fitting some decent high end dampers and a super lightweight removable carpet set.

That would make an interesting weapon.

On saying that, there is something very special about an aircooled hot rod. I was very impressed how dynamically capable such an old shell design could be. I have a real passion for all GT3’s but there is something intoxicating and engaging about a well sorted air cooled car On the road that a water cooled car just cannot match.

[Steve Rance]

To add. Also great that the caymans and front engined cars are being mentioned. That’s the thing that I love about Porsche’s. They are so well engineered and well supported by quality after market tuners who produce some very good upgrades.

[m444ttb]

This idea will probably changed by the time I’ve finished typing it but... 996 C4S in Lapis blue as a base with a 4.0L 997 GT3 drivetrain along with lightweight panels (carbon roof, bonnet, etc) and glass but a reasonably standard outward appearance, then some high quality / light weight soundproofing under the carpet, no rear seats, Recaro PPs and a Cup steering wheel. I’d probably have a switchable exhaust built so it’d clear track day noise limits but with the ability to make people tut elsewhere

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Cunno said:

Harris I

Do you have a breakdown of what was done and the kg saving per item? Did you weigh car at start and finish or is this weight 1220kg estimated?

I remember your 996 from the TD at Donny last year it was going well.

Hi Jon, I made a list of 996 weights over on 911uk. Although based on mainly custom CLR parts and the C2 not a GT3, the weights in most cases should be somewhere close for your calculation purposes. Below refers:

Stock parts removed/lightened
Jack -1.3kg
Toolroll -0.8kg
Front Impact bar -3.1kg
Rear impact bar -3.8kg
Space saver wheel -11.3kg
Wiper motor assembly and insulation -2.2kg
2x rear carpets (behind rear seats) -6kg
Insulation behind Interior rear side lower panel 1.8kg per side = 3.6kg
Alpine speakers 0.6kg each x4 = -2.4kg
Door sub 1.8kg each = 3.6kg total
Carpet under rear seat lightened -2.6kg
Door airbag each 1.1kg = -2.2kg
Passenger airbag -3.3kg
Head-unit -1.6kg
6CD changer -1.9kg
Amplifier -1.2
Floor mats -2.6kg
Alarm Siren -0.8kg
Battery Tray -1.2kg
GT3RS Radiator Modification -2.7kg
Brake shields & bolts -0.4kg
PSE wiring loom -0.1kg
Screenwash fluid drained -1kg
Engine tensioner bracket modified -0.4kg
2x doors snubbers -1kg
Engine cover ram delete 0.1kg
Front M030 ARB -2.86kg

Parts replaced (weight reduced by)
CLR Inconel625 Exhaust -20.8kg
Dash delete -1.0kg
CLR Carbon roof (sunroof delete) -18.1kg
CLR AC/PAS conversion kit -21.2kg
Lightweight Li battery -15.7kg
Polycarbonate rear window -4.1kg
Polycarbonate rear side windows -1.4kg
LWFW and Stage 2 clutch -5.9kg
CUP steering wheel -1.6kg
Ohlins+CLR top mounts (Front 4.8 each rear 4.3 each) -4.4kg
Carbon/Leather LWB seats -12.3kg each = -24.6kg
CLR Carbon Ducktail -6kg
CLR brake cooling mod: Drag/lift reduction -0.5kg
CLR Power loom modified -0.5kg
CLR Carbon wings -5.4
CLR Carbon bonnet -9kg
Fuchs wheels with CUP2's -22.9kg
Titanium wheels bolts -1.1kg
CLR Carbon doors (5.1kg each) -20.8
CLR Carbon door cards (1.1kg each) -5.2kg
CLR Complete suspension (14 arms) and front droplink redesign -1.7kg
CLR Carbon RUF Mirrors -0.23kg


Total weight removed so far: 253.6kg

FOR INFO ONLY: Other parts which have been weighed
Interior rear side lower panel 1.6kg
Interior rear wiper motor panel/cover 0.5kg
OEM seat each 23.7kg = 47.4kg
OEM Cat 5.3kg each Inc O2 sensor = 10.6kg
Carpet under rear seat 7.4kg
Centre console (around gear lever/handbrake) 2.4kg
Door card each 3.7kg = 7.4kg
Steering wheel airbag 1.2kg
Stock battery 17.4kg
Sunroof assembly 13.4kg (4.9kg sunroof panel, 5.0kg frame, 3.5kg inner cover, brackets etc)
OEM wing mirror each 0.9kg
Rear side windows 1.2kg x2 = 2.4kg
Rear screen 7.7kg
Roof skin 7.5kg
Front wheel + tyre 20.8kg
Rear wheel + tyre 24kg
15mm spacer 0.8Kg
Front strut inc top mount 6kg
Rear strut inc top mount 5.3kg
OEM Coffin arm 1.8kg
Front hub assembly inc wheel bearing 6.3kg
OEM PSE 1xsilencer+tip+bolts/clamps 12.4kg per side
OEM Cat inc O2 sensor 5.3kg per side
Total exhaust (excl manifolds) 35.6kg
CUP2 in 215/45R17 9.1kg
CUP2 in 255/40R17 10.4kg
OEM wing 5kg
OEM bonnet 14kg

[Heathrow]

Slippydiff said:

Not bad ay ?

And from the inside :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0iRmXS6q4

And my old K400 car in the wilds of Wales @ 2 mins 56 and @ 4 mins 12 :

https://youtu.be/PeHWqBAt_rk?t=175

https://youtu.be/PeHWqBAt_rk?t=245

Thanks for sharing the links. Is this the same car as currently for sale at 9e?

[Heathrow]

lemmingjames said:

Are you part of the GT3 Facebook groups? Im guessing you're based around Heathrow?

Also, when did plan old modifying a car be known as a hot rod?

I dont really use Facebook much these days so not seen the GT3 group. I'm Herts based.

[Slippydiff]

Heathrow said:

Thanks for sharing the links. Is this the same car as currently for sale at 9e?

No, the car at 9E belongs to Dan and has the later Manthey exhaust, which isn’t quite as strident as the system which was fitted to my old black car and the system on the yellow car being used at the ‘Ring.
The Cup air filter used on the Mk 1 Manthey conversion adds to induction noise massively too

[Orangecurry]

Thanks for this - I've wanted to address the exhaust/cat etc weight for years, but seeing the actual weights (in 996 form) show how worthwhile that would be

So to cherry-pick out a few...

easy to remove and put back if required...

apart from

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Screenwash fluid drained -1kg

that's going some

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Stock parts removed/lightened
Jack -1.3kg
Toolroll -0.8kg
Space saver wheel -11.3kg
Wiper motor assembly and insulation -2.2kg
2x rear carpets (behind rear seats) -6kg
Insulation behind Interior rear side lower panel 1.8kg per side = 3.6kg
Alpine speakers 0.6kg each x4 = -2.4kg
Door sub 1.8kg each = 3.6kg total
Carpet under rear seat lightened -2.6kg

It's interesting to see what the biggest fatties are after the above, being

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

Parts replaced (weight reduced by)
CLR Inconel625 Exhaust -20.8kg
Lightweight Li battery -15.7kg
LWFW and Stage 2 clutch -5.9kg
Carbon/Leather LWB seats -12.3kg each = -24.6kg
Fuchs wheels with CUP2's -22.9kg

...and then you get into 'difficult' bodywork mods

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

CLR Carbon wings -5.4
CLR Carbon bonnet -9kg
CLR Carbon doors (5.1kg each) -20.8
CLR Carbon door cards (1.1kg each) -5.2kg
CLR Carbon RUF Mirrors -0.23kg

CarreraLightweightRacing said:

FOR INFO ONLY: Other parts which have been weighed
OEM seat each 23.7kg = 47.4kg
OEM Cat 5.3kg each Inc O2 sensor = 10.6kg
Carpet under rear seat 7.4kg
Door card each 3.7kg = 7.4kg
Stock battery 17.4kg
Sunroof assembly 13.4kg (4.9kg sunroof panel, 5.0kg frame, 3.5kg inner cover, brackets etc)
Total exhaust (excl manifolds) 35.6kg
CUP2 in 215/45R17 9.1kg
CUP2 in 255/40R17 10.4kg
OEM wing 5kg
OEM bonnet 14kg

So seats, exhaust/etc and wheels, (no surprises) then the battery and bonnet!

The trouble is, my car as it is only just gets under noise regs on a 105 day, so I've always resisted changing out the exhaust and cat.

[Yellow491]

What was the total weight you got the car down to?
A project i am involved in,we have got a 996 with rsr bodywork and wheel size down to under 1100kg,its running a 3.8 air cooled motor coupled to a sequential gearBox,got rid of all that nasty water stuff.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

Yellow491 said:

What was the total weight you got the car down to?
A project i am involved in,we have got a 996 with rsr bodywork and wheel size down to under 1100kg,its running a 3.8 air cooled motor coupled to a sequential gearBox,got rid of all that nasty water stuff.

Funny you mention this, I weighed it the other day and it came as follows:

FL- 196.3kg FR- 191kg Front total 387.6kg
RL- 370.8kg RR-376.9kg Rear total 747.7kg

Total: 1135kg or 1101kg dry.

This is however fully carpeted, all trim and 4 seats/seat belts... so another 44kg potential which would mean a theoretical 1057kg is possible and still be road legal. Also I haven't trimmed much out of the wiring harnesses. So my feeling is somewhere is the region of 1050kg (dry) 1083.5kg (wet but no fuel) is possible.