Porsche 993 test drive?

Porsche 993 test drive?

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Slippydiff

14,743 posts

222 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Orangecurry said:
I may get flamed, but I'm not sure that's true.

To produce a targa, as noted above, they start with a coupe shell and cut the roof off (so I was told). They then had to add various bits to strengthen what remains, and then add the targa roof. This is not the same as a simple hardtop - it is a very complex and heavy mix of metal and glass. If you prefer 'simple' and a driving experience, you want a coupe.
I'd go coupe EVERY time. Firstly because of all the well known and documented issues with the targa roof, but also because it ruins the lines of the rear quarter panels/the quarterlights.

Apparently the factory had to spend vast amounts of time on each car aligning the roof on the production lin to ensure they were watertight and didn't suffer from excessive wind noise
Quoted verbatim from the PCGB forum :

"I have a 993 Targa and can offer the following observations (all from experience of my car only - so may not be representative of all Targas!).

- The seals tend to shrink and leak a little as they get old and will probably need doing at some point if they haven't already
- The front drain tubes seem to rot away, so you can end up get some very slight leaks into the cabin (particularly when parked on slopes, I find). Check the carpets and sound proofing for damp/water
- You can get some wind noise (usually a whistle at certain speeds) if the roof needs re-aligning. It will never be as quiet as a coupe roof
- The glass is very expensive to replace (and seemingly difficult to source) should you ever need to
- The blind mechanism is one of the most ridiculously complicated affairs you could imagine. Not Porsche's finest day...

All negative, right?! Actually, no. I have a very good Indy who has done a lot of work on my roof, synchronising the cables, replacing the seals, re-aligning the roof sections, etc. Not too expensive but takes a while to get right and can be frustrating. I now really like having the Targa -it gives you a great sense of space and I have the roof open a lot more than you would imagine. Wind noise at motorways speeds is not an issue. In fact, in a poorly adjusted roof that whistles, just opening the deflector will actually reduce wind noise.

They are certainly more trouble than a tin top, because there's obviously more to go wrong, so you have to decide what it is you really want. I enjoy it, but if you're going down this route make sure that the a/c works and that the blind retracts/deploys without issue. An unshaded, uncooled greenhouse is not the best place to be when the weather gets warm...

By the way, plenty of people will tell you about how the Targa is compromised, not as pure or focused, has less rigidity, etc. In the real world this makes no difference. On track? Very little difference that I've seen (unless you're actually building a race car - and like the old joke says, if that's where you're trying to get to I wouldn't start from here).

Cheers/John"

ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Thanks for the comments, really useful. I've been pretty indifferent whether its a coupe or targa, but it brings forward important discussions about maintenance/issues hence my 'simpler statement earlier. Ideally I'd go for a coupe - not even a sunroof if I could help it. Aircon I would give a miss also and even have manual windows/seats smile pretty sure its not an option. Its all about the drive and sound. I've got to be able to use it as a GT and also take the little ones to school in the morning.

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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ketan.jina said:
Thanks for the comments, really useful. I've been pretty indifferent whether its a coupe or targa, but it brings forward important discussions about maintenance/issues hence my 'simpler statement earlier. Ideally I'd go for a coupe - not even a sunroof if I could help it. Aircon I would give a miss also and even have manual windows/seats smile pretty sure its not an option. Its all about the drive and sound. I've got to be able to use it as a GT and also take the little ones to school in the morning.
Sunroof is not an issue - most have it. A/C you can strip out if you really want to save some weight, but pointless unless lightening everything else as well. Kids love being in the back.



ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Orangecurry said:
Sunroof is not an issue - most have it. A/C you can strip out if you really want to save some weight, but pointless unless lightening everything else as well. Kids love being in the back.

That's sold it for me! Thanks for the picture smile
Interestingly took a drive to Hatfield porsche today just to take a quick look in the flesh of some of their cars. A blue 964 RS in the window. My 6yr old agreed it was the best one by far.

It begs the question which has been raging with the two cars being compared. Anyone experienced both a 964 and 993, and gone with a particular one? I know its been done to death before, but something that's a consideration.

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Clinchy had both at the same time. Not sure where he took each, but he kept the 993.

Slippydiff

14,743 posts

222 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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ketan.jina said:
That's sold it for me! Thanks for the picture smile
Interestingly took a drive to Hatfield porsche today just to take a quick look in the flesh of some of their cars. A blue 964 RS in the window. My 6yr old agreed it was the best one by far.

It begs the question which has been raging with the two cars being compared. Anyone experienced both a 964 and 993, and gone with a particular one? I know its been done to death before, but something that's a consideration.
Your 6 year old has impeccable taste !!
I've owned the RS versions of them, both are wonderful cars. The 993 was slightly more refined and easier to live with, but I still preferred the 964 ...





gtsralph

1,186 posts

143 months

ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Slippydiff said:
Your 6 year old has impeccable taste !!
I've owned the RS versions of them, both are wonderful cars. The 993 was slightly more refined and easier to live with, but I still preferred the 964 ...



Can I ask why you prefer it? I hear this alot when the cars are compared. In terms of looks the 964 has it for me.

ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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gtsralph said:
Wow, even more rare...1 of 2! Fantastic car!

Slippydiff

14,743 posts

222 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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ketan.jina said:
Can I ask why you prefer it? I hear this alot when the cars are compared. In terms of looks the 964 has it for me.
There is something about the 964 shape that is more “pure” 911, and I do prefer the simplicity of its styling.

The 964 is a more honest car, by that I mean drive both cars back to back in the wet, and the 964 may ultimately have less grip, but you’re far more aware of what’s going on underneath you, and when the available grip is running out.

The 993 is more compliant, but that additional compliance removes a layer of tactility and feel.

The 964 engine is beautifully matched to its 5 speed transmission, and fitted with a Cup pipe, a cat bypass and remapped, is every bit as quick as a Variocam 993, but waaay more visceral.

All the above is just my opinion smile

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Two things should ye think about, Mr Jina, is that

1) any 23-31 year old car will drive and behave utterly on the state of the suspension that it has today, and that such suspension can (and should) be tuned to your own specific requirements - as Wozzer said above, this will make or break your connection with either car.

Also, as I presume you are a newbie to 911s
2) the 964 has rear trailing arms, a somewhat older design that does tend to give more for the driver to do when pressing-on, whereas the 993 got the stillborn 989's rear multi-link setup, which by no means removes the fun of the car, but makes it more manageable when things get interesting. IMO.
(The different suspension is why the 993 narrow-bodied version is fatter in the rear wings than the 964 narrow-bodied version)

Think BMW E30 vs E36, if you have any experience of those cars.

Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 25th October 21:42

ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
quotequote all
Orangecurry said:
Two things should ye think about, Mr Jina, is that

1) any 23-31 year old car will drive and behave utterly on the suspension that it has today, and that such suspension can (and should) be tuned to your own specific requirements - as Wozzer said above, this will make or break your connection with either car.

Also, as I presume you are a newbie to 911s
2) the 964 has rear trailing arms, a somewhat older design that does tend to give more for the driver to do when pressing-on, whereas the 993 got the stillborn 989's rear multi-link setup, which by no means removes the fun of the car, but makes it more manageable when things get interesting. IMO.
(The different suspension is why the 993 narrow-bodied version is fatter in the rear wings than the 964 narrow-bodied version)

Think BMW E30 vs E36, if you have any experience of those cars.


Edited by Orangecurry on Sunday 25th October 21:35
Ah, interesting...you have me on two counts - I haven't a clue when it comes to 911's, and yes I have had a couple of BMs in my time. Admittedly I have not been a massive car person, but somehow have developed an itch for a car that I grew up with. The newer ones I understand are in a different league altogether, but its more than going around a corner faster. Comfort is a part of it now, and like you say setup is important.

I have a feeling going on extended drives with each of these cars is going to be difficult in terms of finding someone who will hire them out. There is only so much setup that can be done smile

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Sunday 25th October 2020
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Without wanting to sound pretentious, you either 'get' an old 911 or you don't.

What you will never do is lose too much money if you find that it's not for you, as they will always be wanted.

NB the above only holds true if you don't pay over the odds to begin with, you don't have to pay for a new set of suspension and fitting by someone who knows what they are doing (which you almost certainly will), and there's no say, err say... I don't know, some kind of global catastrophe, economic collapse, or even more unlikely UK crashing out of the EU - all ridiculous I know, but hey - which will make all such trinkets worthless, as we fight hand to hand over the last can of baked beans....

ketan.jina

Original Poster:

41 posts

98 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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I'd like to think that it doesn't matter too much about the retained value (once of course its a keeper). I don't change my cars often.

The only thing I can compare it to was an old w reg Z3 I use to drive around in the day. Then I had a choice between that and a 911. Scared away of the prospect of driving an old porsche I went for the Z3. Regretted now, but there you go, but really enjoyed driving that thing. It was like sitting on the back axle and was so nimble. The straight six engine was really nice. Never had the radio on so I could listen to the engine. The steering gave a lot of feedback which was odd at first, but then you understand why.

The porsche I imagine to be like that, but enhanced to a whole new level.

oddman

2,277 posts

251 months

Monday 26th October 2020
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I think you definitely need a test drive if comparing to a Z3

I found every drive a physical experience - all the driver inputs require more effort and concentration than a modern car.

Offset driving position in RHD cars is a ball ache for some

The body was very rust resistant at the time but they are 25 years old now. Suspension and tyres need to be right. Door check straps break and may have been badly repaired.

Get someone reputable to do a PPI. A good 993 is a very special thing - they even smell great.

acme

2,971 posts

197 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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oddman said:
they even smell great.
After a long summer there's nothing like cranking the heating up on an air cooled 993 for the first time in months and revelling in the smell!

Yep, we're a strange bunch 993 owners!

supersport

4,040 posts

226 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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acme said:
oddman said:
they even smell great.
After a long summer there's nothing like cranking the heating up on an air cooled 993 for the first time in months and revelling in the smell!

Yep, we're a strange bunch 993 owners!
Air cooled cars heating is special, and that smell.

It’s also nice when you go back to the garage an hour after putting it away. A very distinct smell.

Nurburgsingh

5,104 posts

237 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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supersport said:
acme said:
oddman said:
they even smell great.
After a long summer there's nothing like cranking the heating up on an air cooled 993 for the first time in months and revelling in the smell!

Yep, we're a strange bunch 993 owners!
Air cooled cars heating is special, and that smell.

It’s also nice when you go back to the garage an hour after putting it away. A very distinct smell.
its the smell of happiness

BubblesNW

1,710 posts

182 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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911 Virgin have a few in stock. I'm sure they would like the opportunity to let you try one if there was a potential sale there.

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Nurburgsingh said:
supersport said:
acme said:
oddman said:
they even smell great.
After a long summer there's nothing like cranking the heating up on an air cooled 993 for the first time in months and revelling in the smell!

Yep, we're a strange bunch 993 owners!
Air cooled cars heating is special, and that smell.

It’s also nice when you go back to the garage an hour after putting it away. A very distinct smell.
its the smell of happiness