964 3.3 Turbo S (non-Leichtbau)

[smithyithy]

Did such a car exist?

On many sites I've read lists of the 964 model variants, it lists the 3.3 Turbo as being the first turbocharged 964, obviously carrying over the slightly upgraded 930 engine, and then the 3.3 Turbo S 'Leichtbau', with power increased to around 380bhp and weight reduced by around 200kg.

As far as I was aware, there wasn't a non-lightweight 3.3 Turbo S, as it was a very limited car.

The second gen Turbo S, based on the revised 3.6 car, was more like the Turbo S we see today - essentially a more powerful Turbo with added options eg. the 'flatnose' was an option I believe).

However a comment on a Reddit thread prompted some research that led to a Rennlist thread, sourcing a well-regarded book on the 964 and production numbers, specifically:



It seems that they lump the 3.3 Turbo and Turbo S into one box, then list another Turbo S below (assuming this is the Leichtbau variant) with 80 built.

So my question is, where are these 3.3 Turbo S 'non-Leichtbau' cars, because search results only seem to turn up the Leichtbau which have been, or currently are, for sale...

Is it possible that a powerpack option was offered for the 3.3 Turbo, and these cars were also referred to as 'S' models despite not being the full lightweight version?

Edited by smithyithy on Thursday 11th February 11:37

[IMI A]

I believe the 3.3 turbo s all LW and very special. The 3.6 turbo s are the 80 cars. Total worldwide production f the 3.3 LW was something like 59-65 cars. No one really knows. I'd call Russ at JZM he knows a lot about these two models but I don't think he even knows how many were made of either models.


Yes you could get the power pack or anything you really wanted through the special wishes department but I've never heard of a UK 3.3 turbo with "s" power pack to 381hp. The 3.6 was about 385hp.

If I had a choice I'd pick the LW.

[smithyithy]

Cheers! Yeah I'd say money-no-object, a 3.3 Turbo S LW would be a dream car.

Always interesting trying to pin down numbers for these things though

[IMI A]

You will not pin down a number on the LW. I reckon theres still a few delivery mileage LHD and RHD cars sitting in collections we may never know about unless they come up for sale. What I find extraordinary is that there are people out there who tucked them away 20 years ago and worked out they could be worth a few quid so stored them as alternative investments. I was offered a used 3.6 Turbo for £20k back in the day. Avoided my God its a terrible 964 which was the consensus on the whole 964 range back in 1995! How things change!!

[IMI A]

964 3.6 Turbo I was offered needed an engine rebuild after only 2 years!

[smithyithy]

IMI A said:

You will not pin down a number on the LW. I reckon theres still a few delivery mileage LHD and RHD cars sitting in collections we may never know about unless they come up for sale. What I find extraordinary is that there are people out there who tucked them away 20 years ago and worked out they could be worth a few quid so stored them as alternative investments. I was offered a used 3.6 Turbo for £20k back in the day. Avoided my God its a terrible 964 which was the consensus on the whole 964 range back in 1995! How things change!!

Madness isn't it... I've seen stories of RS's selling for not much more than a Carrera too, back when people thought they were too raw and unrefined for the road.. Now look at the price difference!

But with the Turbo etc, it's not so much about how many Lightweights were built as I understand it's a disputed figure to this day, it's just whether there was in fact a third 3.3 model offered, as a Turbo S but not lightweight..

I imagine it may have been possible to have the 3.3 engine upgraded closer to 'S' power figures, but I hadn't idea that Porsche might've offered that as an actual model variant until now...

When you search for '3.3 Turbo S' for sale, it seems to only throw up LW variants..

[IMI A]

Only LW coming up makes sense the 964 3.3 turbo "s" was only a LW if ordering new. It would not have been cost effective to order a normal 3.3 and upgrade from 330bhp to 381bhp as Porsche charge crazy amounts for "special wishes programme". Aftermarket many 3.3 have been upgraded with modern turbos comfortably running 400bhp maybe even more I know of 993 turbo with 530bhp from RS tuning so anything poss. I'd say this particular 3.6 Turbo is my fave all time 911. Used to be Porsche GB press car. So cool.

[smithyithy]

Yeah that definitely makes sense.

[GTRene]

here it says 1 of 192 and looks like non lightweight turbo s version? at least some are sort of advertised with them?

did a search 1990-1992 and from 350ps , those are mostly marked with WLS X 33 from factory and some have Turbo S on the rear.,
like this one



here> the one for 149.964 euro fun the last 3 numbers 964 hope the link works though.

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?c=S...

[smithyithy]

That's great information! So it does seem that white a few 3.3 cars received power upgrades..

I wonder how Porsche advertised them then, as it seems odd for them to have produced two different Turbo S's with both being badges as such..

[TB993tt]

Is this what you are looking for,don't think these were badged S back then owners probably added the badges.

Edited by TB993tt on Friday 12th February 09:39

[OhThatHurtAbit]

Is a 964 Turbo S LW really worth more than a 918? I'm sure someone will think so

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...

[Orangecurry]

Ay, caramba!

That's not a red interior - that's a scene from Kill Bill 2.

[smithyithy]

TB993tt said:

Is this what you are looking for,don't think these were badged S back then owners probably added the badges.

That's really useful dude cheers! Is that official Porsche literature or something that has been compiled elsewhere?

I suppose owners would badge them as Turbo S given they'd had the engine upgrade..

Even if the first official use of 'Turbo S' badging by Porsche was for the Lightweight, maybe afterwards when the 3.6 Turbo S was released and in subsequent years, people with the upgraded 3.3 cars could've retroactively badged theirs up as an 'S'

[GTRene]

Orangecurry said:

Ay, caramba!

That's not a red interior - that's a scene from Kill Bill 2.

lol, indeed, I guess he or she like's red... its awful, and then that price, well...its Unique I guess.

I also see now that those S LW cars had those air inlets in the rear fenders.



I also saw a yellow one, reminded me of a special Porsche guide I found (when doing something for TV on some location) long time ago with that yellow one in it and all build numbers etc and all special models, I believe I still have that somewhere.

such yellow one, but a different picture

[GTRene]

this Turbo S LW 3.3 has also a red interior, bur way better then the blood-red one, although still a lot red-ish, but more 'ok'-ish.
RHD in London





https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

[smithyithy]

I'd take the yellow one for sure.

I think having the lower part of the bumpers and sills painted really suits the widebody cars, it seems to tie in well with the big arches.. Whereas the narrow body cars I generally prefer to see them unpainted..

[Ocho]

GTRene said:

lol, indeed, I guess he or she like's red... its awful, and then that price, well...its Unique I guess.

I also see now that those S LW cars had those air inlets in the rear fenders.



I also saw a yellow one, reminded me of a special Porsche guide I found (when doing something for TV on some location) long time ago with that yellow one in it and all build numbers etc and all special models, I believe I still have that somewhere.

such yellow one, but a different picture

Is this what you’re referring to. Might help clarifying anyway... they’re taken from “Original Porsche 911” by Peter Morgan.

[GTRene]

Ocho said:

GTRene said:

I also saw a yellow one, reminded me of a special Porsche guide I found (when doing something for TV on some location) long time ago with that yellow one in it and all build numbers etc and all special models, I believe I still have that somewhere.

such yellow one, but a different picture

Is this what you’re referring to. Might help clarifying anyway... they’re taken from “Original Porsche 911” by Peter Morgan.

Ha, good one, I had to look it up in search for the magazine I mentioned, found it, its more like a little book with 100 pages with all Porsche from the time.

And funny thing about remembering, it was about 20 years ago when I saw this book the last time and the Turbo S picture is indeed different, but taken at the same spot, see field and old 'tree' and I guess same day.... see the picture in my book :-)



this book btw, German, with great pictures and info.