Another F430 manifold quandary!!

Another F430 manifold quandary!!

Author
Discussion

Jappo

1,120 posts

208 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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voicey said:
You can work out if it's the cat or the sensor by analysing the exhaust gases. What do DK say?
They say not sensors as it's the same error on both banks

Cerberaherts

1,651 posts

140 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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New lamda sensors won't cure it. You have ditched the pre-cats and put high flow cats on it. You can either try cat-extender adapters on the front lamda sensors (doesn't work very often, but they are cheap so may be worth trying a couple from Capristo) or contact someone like DMS who can remap your motronic units to get rid of it. You can fit exhaust manifolds, or high-flow cats but fitting the two together can often result in this issue on the 430.

Jappo

1,120 posts

208 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
quotequote all
Cerberaherts said:
New lamda sensors won't cure it. You have ditched the pre-cats and put high flow cats on it. You can either try cat-extender adapters on the front lamda sensors (doesn't work very often, but they are cheap so may be worth trying a couple from Capristo) or contact someone like DMS who can remap your motronic units to get rid of it. You can fit exhaust manifolds, or high-flow cats but fitting the two together can often result in this issue on the 430.
It retains the standard Cats, Capristo either side.

Cerberaherts

1,651 posts

140 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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Ah, right. That changes things then. Can you find out what the long and short term fuel trims are reading for each bank?

Jappo

1,120 posts

208 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
quotequote all
Cerberaherts said:
Ah, right. That changes things then. Can you find out what the long and short term fuel trims are reading for each bank?
I guess DK Engineering could. They're removing the cats to check their condition tomorrow.

keith jecks

81 posts

227 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
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One thing I don't understand. If the problem with the stock manifolds is that they crack over time, why don't people just remove the insulation, have them welded and then wrap with bandage? Wouldn't that be cheaper and easier? Clearly I have missed something - I would be interested to hear what it is.

Edited by keith jecks on Monday 8th June 14:38

dvb247

Original Poster:

270 posts

197 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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I have a contact that will do just that and take out the pre cat too as its the pre cat that can disintegrate and bits fall down into the engine?
There is a company in Macclesfield that have been reconditioning 355 manifolds for years and now 430's at a cost of £800 per side approx, thats more than the Scud OEM ones with pre cat deleted so doesn't add up to me, but there are welders out there that will repair and remove the pre cat for a fraction of that price. Not a route I wanted to take, can't image they would look very nice but that said you can't see them anyway.


GT Two

3,070 posts

191 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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The 430 Challenge manifolds are £2400 and do not have the cat.

Is this an option for you?

dvb247

Original Poster:

270 posts

197 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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Okay, I've read all the posts, searched the numbers, yet there does not seem to be a couple of simple pics showing the difference between Mk1 & Mk2 manifolds/headers so one can easily identify?

Just replaced mine fully expecting them to be Mk1's but the (only!!) code on each says "EM-WUC 131E-R and L" which looking at others for sale and a google search appear to be Mk2's??

Can't find a Ferrari 7 number part code beginning 21 for Mk1 or 24 for Mk2's anywhere on my old manifolds?

I just want to be sure exactly what they are and whether they are actually broken?

I did have all the indicators, noise on startup, ticking etc, visually I can see the heat marks/discolouring on the shield and some of the fibre coming out the sensor holes, despite all this I want to make absolutely sure beyond all doubt so I will remove the heat shields asap?

mike01606

531 posts

148 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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keith jecks said:
One thing I don't understand. If the problem with the stock manifolds is that they crack over time, why don't people just remove the insulation, have them welded and then wrap with bandage? Wouldn't that be cheaper and easier? Clearly I have missed something - I would be interested to hear what it is.

Edited by keith jecks on Monday 8th June 14:38
Look at the design of the pipe work with the insulation off. That along with the quality of the steel is the problem.

To fit a pre-cat in the space available means the 4 into 1 part is a 'compact' design rather than 4 equal length pipes. The thermal expansion has nowhere to go and if you weld them they will crack again.

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/modern-v8s-360-f...

Edited by mike01606 on Saturday 20th June 13:53

GT Two

3,070 posts

191 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
quotequote all
dvb247 said:
Okay, I've read all the posts, searched the numbers, yet there does not seem to be a couple of simple pics showing the difference between Mk1 & Mk2 manifolds/headers so one can easily identify?

Just replaced mine fully expecting them to be Mk1's but the (only!!) code on each says "EM-WUC 131E-R and L" which looking at others for sale and a google search appear to be Mk2's??

Can't find a Ferrari 7 number part code beginning 21 for Mk1 or 24 for Mk2's anywhere on my old manifolds?

I just want to be sure exactly what they are and whether they are actually broken?

I did have all the indicators, noise on startup, ticking etc, visually I can see the heat marks/discolouring on the shield and some of the fibre coming out the sensor holes, despite all this I want to make absolutely sure beyond all doubt so I will remove the heat shields asap?
Feel for you.

I saw somewhere a pic showing difference between mk1 and mk2.

Will try and find it.

Cerberaherts

1,651 posts

140 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
quotequote all
keith jecks said:
One thing I don't understand. If the problem with the stock manifolds is that they crack over time, why don't people just remove the insulation, have them welded and then wrap with bandage? Wouldn't that be cheaper and easier? Clearly I have missed something - I would be interested to hear what it is.

Edited by keith jecks on Monday 8th June 14:38
Because the thin-walled manifolds are very poor and the weight distribution along the original mounts is very poor and increases the chance of cracking...

I have some pics of the differences between the manifolds on my work laptop so I'll post them up Monday...

dvb247

Original Poster:

270 posts

197 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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I've now got my AP Racing manifolds on, so I guess my engine is safe from the dreaded OEM precat debris at least, my first thoughts are that they are much louder than stock, only driven a short distance but that is my initial first impression, I will have a couple of runs out in the coming weeks to see how I feel about them, it may be that because my car is a spider the noise is more noticeable, on my short journey I did go through the Manchester airport tunnels with the roof down, to say it sounded like armageddon is an understatement.
Would really like to compare the Challenge OEM sound level to the AP Racing manifolds and I'm interested in any thoughts regarding their opinion on AP Racing manifolds?
I have booked the FOC Oulton Park track day and I'm concerned that I will now fail the 105db test lol

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

255 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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dvb247 said:
I've now got my AP Racing manifolds on, so I guess my engine is safe from the dreaded OEM precat debris at least, my first thoughts are that they are much louder than stock, only driven a short distance but that is my initial first impression, I will have a couple of runs out in the coming weeks to see how I feel about them, it may be that because my car is a spider the noise is more noticeable, on my short journey I did go through the Manchester airport tunnels with the roof down, to say it sounded like armageddon is an understatement.
Would really like to compare the Challenge OEM sound level to the AP Racing manifolds and I'm interested in any thoughts regarding their opinion on AP Racing manifolds?
I have booked the FOC Oulton Park track day and I'm concerned that I will now fail the 105db test lol
has this generated any pops and crackles on the overrun? this is the one thing thats disappointed me with 430 ownership, after 2 porsche sports exhausts the fez sounds abit tame on the overun

red_duke

800 posts

180 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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Nano2nd said:
has this generated any pops and crackles on the overrun? this is the one thing thats disappointed me with 430 ownership, after 2 porsche sports exhausts the fez sounds abit tame on the overun
Have you tried unplugging the exhaust valve vacuum lines and blocking the ends with golf tees? That simple modification transforms the exhaust sound on the F430. You will get plenty of snap crackle and pop on the overrun then. It's what nature intended.

Edited by red_duke on Friday 26th June 21:03

cgt2

7,093 posts

187 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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Paid Cerberaherts a visit to have my manifolds checked out.

He confirmed all good and I was really impressed with his knowledge and vast experience of these cars, a refreshing change to most dealers. thumbup

dvb247

Original Poster:

270 posts

197 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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You don't need to unplug the exhaust valve vacuum with these manifolds trust me, it would be unbearable !!

red_duke

800 posts

180 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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dvb247 said:
You don't need to unplug the exhaust valve vacuum with these manifolds trust me, it would be unbearable !!
I was replying to Nano2nd who seemed unimpressed by the noise of his - presumably stock - exhaust.

steelej

1,761 posts

206 months

Saturday 27th June 2015
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dvb247 said:
I did have all the indicators, noise on startup, ticking etc, visually I can see the heat marks/discolouring on the shield and some of the fibre coming out the sensor holes, despite all this I want to make absolutely sure beyond all doubt so I will remove the heat shields asap?
Why are fibres coming out the sensor holes a indicator of failure? I have fibres at my sensor holes in both of my manifolds but I think they've always been like that although I can't be sure.

Mine are MKII and I have capristo brackets.

John.

C. Grimsley

1,364 posts

194 months

Saturday 27th June 2015
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Very interesting topic, we have a 430 scud and as I have read these manifolds on this particular car doesn't have the cat in the manifolds, is this correct?

I also have the ticking noise when first started (blowing manifolds) and wondered am I in the same boat regards the replacement manifolds?

I don't mind replacing the manifolds if that's what's what but seem to be getting conflicting advise regards the cats etc, some people saying these can be ingested by the engine?

Many thanks, Carl