Are Speciale That Special
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Unless one of us here is a pro driver (or ex pro driver) there is no way that any of us can say we are driving any of the recent cars in the sector at 100% of their capability. Most drivers of these sorts of cars are a long way from 2:30s at Silverstone or 2:50 at Spa for example and the cars should be probably 10seconds faster if driven by someone who really knows what they are doing.
I'd agree with your general point though, faster track times do not mean a better car. There's some pretty funny comments by some trying to knock the speciale here, it is a bloody good car.
You boys are maybe at the wrong trackdays ?I'd agree with your general point though, faster track times do not mean a better car. There's some pretty funny comments by some trying to knock the speciale here, it is a bloody good car.
I see plenty of Speciale, RS, 675 LT, Nismo etc. at the ring/spa etc. at full tilt.
The Speciale is a fabulous car no doubt about it. For me though it's the Scuderia which is the NA V8 pinnacle. It has more feel, a better sound, a more physical gearchange and is a little rawer overall. The Speciale adds more power, a little more chassis capability and quite a lot more refinement. None of these things however make it a better drivers car (IMHO).
Edited by Shazbat on Tuesday 21st March 18:08
Shazbat said:
You boys are maybe at the wrong trackdays ?
I see plenty of Speciale, RS, 675 LT, Nismo etc. at the ring/spa etc. at full tilt.
Well I don't know any trackdays that are primarily driven by ex racing drivers so yes perhaps I'm at the wrong trackdays. Being driven at 'full tilt' for an amateur is literally miles away from what the cars are truly capable of in a professional drivers hands imo. If you're seeing cars constantly going under 2:40 (and probably a decent amount under) at Spa or 7:15 BTG at the 'ring I'd agree with you that the cars are being driven vaguely close to 100% of their capability. Not otherwise. (do tell where you see those kinds of times as I'd quite like to go and be a spectator at those trackdays I see plenty of Speciale, RS, 675 LT, Nismo etc. at the ring/spa etc. at full tilt.
)isaldiri said:
Well I don't know any trackdays that are primarily driven by ex racing drivers so yes perhaps I'm at the wrong trackdays. Being driven at 'full tilt' for an amateur is literally miles away from what the cars are truly capable of in a professional drivers hands imo. If you're seeing cars constantly going under 2:40 (and probably a decent amount under) at Spa or 7:15 BTG at the 'ring I'd agree with you that the cars are being driven vaguely close to 100% of their capability. Not otherwise. (do tell where you see those kinds of times as I'd quite like to go and be a spectator at those trackdays )
nerdy/boring/know-all-esque )Like I say, plenty of cars of this type being driven properly. Sounds like you just don't like the idea that really expensive cars do get used properly. Why would that grate on you I wonder ? (Rhetorical)
Agree that plenty get ponced about in though and generally speaking trackdays are the domain of really slow drivers.
Shazbat said:
nerdy/boring/know-all-esque
Like I say, plenty of cars of this type being driven properly. Sounds like you just don't like the idea that really expensive cars do get used properly. Why would that grate on you I wonder ? (Rhetorical)
Agree that plenty get ponced about in though and generally speaking trackdays are the domain of really slow drivers.
You're missing my point - which is that the cars these days are really seriously quick and way beyond the capability of 99% of owners to drive at. Used properly is great (and I could care less if people used them or polished them truth be told), used to "100% capability" however is a totally different thing.Like I say, plenty of cars of this type being driven properly. Sounds like you just don't like the idea that really expensive cars do get used properly. Why would that grate on you I wonder ? (Rhetorical)
Agree that plenty get ponced about in though and generally speaking trackdays are the domain of really slow drivers.
isaldiri said:
Shazbat said:
You boys are maybe at the wrong trackdays ?
I see plenty of Speciale, RS, 675 LT, Nismo etc. at the ring/spa etc. at full tilt.
Well I don't know any trackdays that are primarily driven by ex racing drivers so yes perhaps I'm at the wrong trackdays. Being driven at 'full tilt' for an amateur is literally miles away from what the cars are truly capable of in a professional drivers hands imo. If you're seeing cars constantly going under 2:40 (and probably a decent amount under) at Spa or 7:15 BTG at the 'ring I'd agree with you that the cars are being driven vaguely close to 100% of their capability. Not otherwise. (do tell where you see those kinds of times as I'd quite like to go and be a spectator at those trackdays I see plenty of Speciale, RS, 675 LT, Nismo etc. at the ring/spa etc. at full tilt.
)
Shazbat said:
nerdy/boring/know-all-esque
Like I say, plenty of cars of this type being driven properly. Sounds like you just don't like the idea that really expensive cars do get used properly. Why would that grate on you I wonder ? (Rhetorical)
Agree that plenty get ponced about in though and generally speaking trackdays are the domain of really slow drivers.
'Ive been on tourist days at the Ring and track days with plenty of cars driven by amateurs doing sub 7.15's.At Spa the top Caterhams in the Mag 7's series are doing sub 2.40's on road legal tyres and none are pro drivers.Like I say, plenty of cars of this type being driven properly. Sounds like you just don't like the idea that really expensive cars do get used properly. Why would that grate on you I wonder ? (Rhetorical)
Agree that plenty get ponced about in though and generally speaking trackdays are the domain of really slow drivers.
griff7 said:
'Ive been on tourist days at the Ring and track days with plenty of cars driven by amateurs doing sub 7.15's.
seriously? SportAuto took a 458 around the 'ring in 7:38 (full lap) a few years ago and that was with a driver who was hugely experienced at the place. 7:15 BTG means ~7:40 full lap in a car like that.isaldiri said:
griff7 said:
'Ive been on tourist days at the Ring and track days with plenty of cars driven by amateurs doing sub 7.15's.
seriously? SportAuto took a 458 around the 'ring in 7:38 (full lap) a few years ago and that was with a driver who was hugely experienced at the place. 7:15 BTG means ~7:40 full lap in a car like that.
isaldiri said:
Well I don't know any trackdays that are primarily driven by ex racing drivers so yes perhaps I'm at the wrong trackdays. Being driven at 'full tilt' for an amateur is literally miles away from what the cars are truly capable of in a professional drivers hands imo. If you're seeing cars constantly going under 2:40 (and probably a decent amount under) at Spa or 7:15 BTG at the 'ring I'd agree with you that the cars are being driven vaguely close to 100% of their capability. Not otherwise. (do tell where you see those kinds of times as I'd quite like to go and be a spectator at those trackdays )
You said 7.15 BTG so either state that or a full lap.The start finish as you are aware is totally dependant on what car you are driving.The difference between a fast saloon car on a tourist lap compared to a full fling lap BTG is about 4/5 seconds.Your blanket statement of cars on trackdays also is very vague. )griff7 said:
You said 7.15 BTG so either state that or a full lap.The start finish as you are aware is totally dependant on what car you are driving.The difference between a fast saloon car on a tourist lap compared to a full fling lap BTG is about 4/5 seconds.Your blanket statement of cars on trackdays also is very vague.
Ok, you said 'plenty of cars do 7:15". I assume that's BTG. Horst von Saurma's SportAuto 458 lap (full lap - industry T13 corner) was 7:38 per above picture I posted. That would mean ~7:15 BTG give or take a few seconds. I don't see how it is at all possible many drivers are much faster than him around the ring as even by today's standards the 458 is a very quick car.
griff7 said:
So the supertest is not counted as a time in your opinion ?
Where has SportAuto done a 7:28? I've posted the supertest time above of 7:38 which AFAIK is the only time Sport Auto have had the 458 round there.
isaldiri said:
griff7 said:
You said 7.15 BTG so either state that or a full lap.The start finish as you are aware is totally dependant on what car you are driving.The difference between a fast saloon car on a tourist lap compared to a full fling lap BTG is about 4/5 seconds.Your blanket statement of cars on trackdays also is very vague.
Ok, you said 'plenty of cars do 7:15". I assume that's BTG. Horst von Saurma's SportAuto 458 lap (full lap - industry T13 corner) was 7:38 per above picture I posted. That would mean ~7:15 BTG give or take a few seconds. I don't see how it is at all possible many drivers are much faster than him around the ring as even by today's standards the 458 is a very quick car.
griff7 said:
So the supertest is not counted as a time in your opinion ?
Where has SportAuto done a 7:28? I've posted the supertest time above of 7:38 which AFAIK is the only time Sport Auto have had the 458 round there.
There are a lot of cars doing sub 7.15 BTG at the ring with passengers in on tourist days if you are a regular over there.
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