430 or 458???

Author
Discussion

dalenorth

Original Poster:

823 posts

167 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
So this will be my first Ferrari and I love both cars. However I'm not made of money so don't want to buy something that will lose 20k per annum.

I've only driven the 458 so far but I'm sure I'd get on with either, I'll probably only do 2k per annum so it's just a bit of fun for the weekends!

So do I go balls out on 458 and spend £150k or get a nice 430 cab for £100k. I think the 430 prices have levelled out now, but not sure on the 458? Could it come down to 430 prices in just 3/4 years? I'd be grateful if any opinions!

MDL111

6,921 posts

177 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
I personally think there is a certain risk that either one might lose money - the 430 was quite a bit cheaper not that long ago. If more 488s come to market, then I suspect it will push the 458 down a little, which in turn might push down the 430.

I think a 430 Scuderia is the safer place to put you money and more of an even than either "base" model

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

170 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
I personally think there is a certain risk that either one might lose money - the 430 was quite a bit cheaper not that long ago. If more 488s come to market, then I suspect it will push the 458 down a little, which in turn might push down the 430.

I think a 430 Scuderia is the safer place to put you money and more of an even than either "base" model
Agree 430 Scuderia is a safer bet but they are circa £200k.

458 is so much better than a F430 it will always command a premium over F430 which have seen a bigger price increase and therefore IMHO have a greater potential downside come the price correction.
If 488 pushes 458 down that will also push the overpriced F430's down even further

Of the 2 I would go 458 personally if you cant stretch to a scuderia

dalenorth

Original Poster:

823 posts

167 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
Hmm, just when I'd convinced myself to spend £50k less! Yes I'd love a scud but can't really afford £200k without financing☹️

My only other option was to look at a LP570 cab but I guess I should mention that on a Ferrari forum?

Yipper

5,964 posts

90 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
Get a 458 with Ferrari warranty. A far better and prettier car. Worry about the money later.

Durzel

12,261 posts

168 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
458 prices can't come down to F430 ones, because as said above it is quite a jump forward in many departments.

I also don't think the pressure on it from the 488 is as significant as it could be as there is quite a bit of "last of the NA V8" aura about it. That could just be my unconscious bias though.

458 is cushioned by F430 prices, which are cushioned by 360 prices. The only way 458s are going to lose £40k in 2 years is if there is another financial crash.

That being said, you should go in expecting to lose money, £10k a year, maybe more, then when you don't it'll be all the sweeter, and you'll enjoy the ownership more because you'll have already written off that money.

Edited by Durzel on Saturday 15th April 01:14

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

256 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
Durzel said:
458 prices can't come down to F430 ones, because as said above it is quite a jump forward in many departments.

I also don't think the pressure on it from the 488 is as significant as it could be as there is quite a bit of "last of the NA V8" aura about it. That could just be my unconscious bias though.

458 is cushioned by F430 prices, which are cushioned by 360 prices. The only way 458s are going to lose £40k in 2 years is if there is another financial crash.

That being said, you should go in expecting to lose money, £10k a year, maybe more, then when you don't it'll be all the sweeter, and you'll enjoy the ownership more because you'll have already written off that money.

Edited by Durzel on Saturday 15th April 01:14
can't ague with that, as the RRP continues to skyrocket on a new car plus with relatively high inflation at the moment can't see price coming down significantly without global financial meltdown

WCZ

10,521 posts

194 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
458 every time

dang2407

496 posts

108 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
What makes a car 'better'? I would always go for a 430 over a 458.

pocty

1,118 posts

279 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
I bought a 458 a few weeks ago and also have a GT3 RS, all I can say is that I am amazed how sharp the 458 is. In fact I'm shocked as I always thought that Ferrari's we're all show no go.

The 458 is a big step in front of the 430 and if you drove them back to back you would think there was more years between them.

Drive the 458 in race mode and you wont stop grinning.

Pocty

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

170 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
dang2407 said:
What makes a car 'better'? I would always go for a 430 over a 458.
Performance, looks, sound, gearbox, build quality, driving dynamics etc.... measurably better in ever way I would suggest, as an ex F430 owner who didn't buy a 458 so certainly not a biased opinion

sone

4,587 posts

238 months

Saturday 15th April 2017
quotequote all
As a previous 430, 430 Scud and 458 owner my advice is get a black or red 458 with race seats.
Jobs a good un!

sone

4,587 posts

238 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
As a previous 430, 430 Scud and 458 owner my advice is get a black or red 458 with race seats.
Jobs a good un!

dalenorth

Original Poster:

823 posts

167 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice all, yes I was thinking red or black coupe. Any other advice on essential spec? I'm not too picky as a used buyer.

red_duke

800 posts

181 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
Do you think the the 458 is worth paying the extra £50,000 for? I don't personally which is why I still have my F430 after 6 years.. I do think you need to try the F1 gearbox by driving an F430 though. I love it but it's not to everyone's taste.

isaldiri

18,552 posts

168 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
The 458 imo is a far better car to drive, I'd personally get that over a 430 for sure at current prices.

Carmo99

1,308 posts

186 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
Maybe I'm being stupid or naive but I was looking at a 458 recently (in Switzerland) price was 115kGBP , 2011, 30k km.(F Dealer) A 430 from 2008 is 75kGBP with about 40k km and a 360 is on average 50k GBP. 488 are starting at 185k GBP. Remember Switzerland has a different market dynamic than in UK when it comes to such cars.

For me there isn't room for 430 to stay where they are price wise in the next 3 years as the 488 willl drop to 458 "upper levels" today putting pressure on 458 and moving down. I cannot see someone paying 75k for a 430 in 2 or 3 years when a 458 is only a bit more. My Ferrari dealer said I should account for a min depreciation of about 25kGBP on the 458 over the next 2 to 3 years (not taking into account dealer margin. And these prices are today already 30% cheaper than in UK for the same car. It must be a bubble stretched v. thin?

Edited by Carmo99 on Sunday 16th April 11:23

MingtheMerciless

420 posts

209 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
Unless you feel that you will wish to move it on or may need to move it on within a couple of years, I'd personally worry a bit less about the financial side and depreciation. As said above, if you count in some depreciation and then don't suffer it happy days. You won't make money out of it (anymore, unlike manual F430's up to recently or maybe Scuds).

I had an F430 Spider for 5 years and loved it but the 458 feels two generations ahead. I had those five blissful years and many happy times with the F430 but honestly I think the 458 may be peak car despite my love of the F430. I'm thinking about a 488 Spider but having driven them a lot, the 488 is only half a generation ahead of the 458, if that, and loses sound and rev range over the 458, which isn't exactly wanting so the extra ballistic missile effect isn't something which really matters that much. I will say this though, the 488 is in my opinion a better track car, having tracked both, including at Fiorano with the 488. However, I suspect that tracking it will not be high on your agenda if it is a big financial outlay and you are afraid, like I am, of binning it (I still hear the words of the Javelin track day guy at Anglesea when he looked at my car which I brought there within the first week of ownership and said "Oh yeah, we've had all sorts of exotica towed out of here as scrap").

So if you decide to go for the F430, don't worry, it's a wonderful car. You will never feel short changed driving it. If you can go to the 458, unless you can go Speciale, you may be at peak car. Ever. So do it. You only live once and you won't die thinking - I wish I hadn't bought that 458. Buy a track slag as well too if you need that itch scratched. Which is why I bought an M3 to do daily and track slagging.

With all due respect to Lambo and Mac owners - I count the 458 above the Huracan and the 12C (road and track in each case) although I admit I haven't driven any of their more modern gear. However, turbo. What can I say. This is just my opinion and I emphasise that there is absolutely no "wrong" answer here if you prefer a Huracan or a Mac.


Edited by MingtheMerciless on Sunday 16th April 18:01


Edited by MingtheMerciless on Sunday 16th April 18:02

sealtt

3,091 posts

158 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
IMO you'd be mad to get a F430 if you could afford a 458. The 458 is a far far better car, seriously. That being said the 430 still has 100% of the Ferrari drama re looks and noise, so well worth buying if that's what your budget limits you to and you want to scratch the Ferrari itch.

coops18

87 posts

111 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
I've just bought an 2008 F430 spider from a Ferrari dealer and I was contemplating the 458 spider.
This one was immaculate and only 10k miles. The 458 was 80k more, so I thought it's got to be a good entry into Ferrari. (I have GT3's GT3RS) and I have to admit....I LOVE IT!!
It feels old in comparison to the Porsches but that's the appeal......getting that gear change perfect is so satisfying and the noise is just amazing too.
It's a great cruiser and very comfortable and with the roof down it's just puts a smile on your face.
I'm sure both cars are amazing.....after all it's a Ferrari and that just makes you grin☺️☺️