488 VS

[RamboLambo]

_Leg_ said:

For me it's not turbo charging in itself but more where modern cars are going. I'm a bit lost for buying new cars tbh as I know I don't need anything faster than I have for the road. As I track with some friends and already have the right car for that I look at what is being released this year as road cars, the cost to change and think, "What's the point?" if I'm honest.

It could be asked, "Why did you buy the cars you have though as they're too powerful for road cars really?" but that was just what was current when I had the opportunity to start buying supercars. I know they're more than enough for road use but that's what the new supercars were when I was buying and I guess I had to buy them to realise they're more than enough.

First time I've ever felt like that. Supercars just seem to be getting more and more powerful and it's utterly pointless, I can't use all of what I already have on the road. I'm not interested in cruising through town in the 'latest thing' nor being 'Mr Newest LE car' at meets. I've come to the conclusion I may as well use the money I would spend getting the maximum enjoyment out of what I already have so it'll be going on road trips, track days and racing and not new cars. I'm a bit concerned I might be turning into an old git.

Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 22 February 17:37

Yep that's how I'm feeling these days. The current cars are so good the incremental improvement of spending another £100k for the latest and greatest offering just does not stack up anymore.

I've come to the conclusion that I prefer naturally aspirated cars because of the sound and throttle response and want something that's exciting at 30 mph rather than warp speed. I'm hoping the Performante more than ticks that box and not interested in lap times etc ...If the 488VS has extra torque, bhp and is a nano second faster I wont be bothered in the slightest

[WDISMYL]

And yet you are hoping for the LT version of the 720s - a turbo charged engine with Hypercar looks - that you don’t like?!
Come on - just be honest - along with the majority of punters you want the LE/ restricted sale period car because it will hold its value better than the standard car.

All this NA preference talk is bks - as demonstrated by the insane demand for the 488 pista.

And if you listen to these Novitec Mclaren 570s the better sound argument of the NA is starting to get very old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5JrHLdcUPg&fe...

If they can do it so can Ferrari and McLaren.

Edited by WDISMYL on Thursday 22 February 18:39

[Yipper]

NA engines will inevitably go the same way as manual gearboxes. Lower penetration, but rising used prices (due to rarity and fun-factor).

Almost everything will go turbo (and electric hybrid).

Turbos are so powerful now, there is just no way NA engines can compete longterm.

Today, right now, you can (reliably) remap a ~£30k VW Golf R turbo to ~600bhp in ~24hrs for <£10k and it will stick like glue to almost every ~£250k Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche on the market. NA engines simply cannot match that kind of "bang for your buck".

[RamboLambo]

WDISMYL said:

And yet you are hoping for the LT version of the 720s - a turbo charged engine with Hypercar looks - that you don’t like?!
Come on - just be honest - along with the majority of punters you want the LE/ restricted sale period car because it will hold its value better than the standard car.

All this NA preference talk is bks - as demonstrated by the insane demand for the 488 pista.

And if you listen to these Novitec Mclaren 570s the better sound argument of the NA is starting to get very old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5JrHLdcUPg&fe...

If they can do it so can Ferrari and McLaren.

Edited by WDISMYL on Thursday 22 February 18:39

Still sounds like a wet fart to me albeit a loud fart. Demand for most Ferrari's is high relative to supply so the pista ke is no different there but I can bet your bottom dollar those getting a 488VS will be buying it primarily for its residual value and would of lost a fortune on others in the past to effectively qualify for the cherry on the cake

Naturally aspirated cars sound and respond better and add to the excitement of a supercar IMHO without needed to be doing warp speed and unlike others I don't think a manual gearbox suits a Supercar. Hot hatch yes maybe but a supercar needs a superfast gear change and a manual just cannot compete with todays DCT's

FYI Its not a 750LT I'm after either but the sports series LT spider primarily due to the merits of its carbon tub and MSO exhaust sound and whilst its not as "hardcore" as a N/a car it will complement the Performante coupe perfectly for me.
The missus will probably only ever want to go out in the McLaren leaving me to hoon around in the N/a lambo.. Ok I will be lucky to have the choice but given the choice of 1 only I think it would have to be naturally aspirated even with the big improvements to turbocharged cars. N/a engines are a dying breed and will be sadly missed. Not sure if Huracan will be the last N/a V10 from lambo but rumour is gen II could be hybrid which will make the Performante very sought after IMHO ala 458 Speciale. Not why I bought it though but would be a nice Brucie bonus if you are still allowed tpo say that these days

Edited by RamboLambo on Thursday 22 February 19:35

Edited by RamboLambo on Thursday 22 February 19:41

[WDISMYL]

Fair enough about the sports series - but still will be turbo charged - my mistaken assumption though.

However you should certainly be persuading your wife to see the doctor if she is making similar sounds to those Novitec exhausts.

[bertie]

I don’t get why people feel the need to justify their choice and try to rubbish the others.

488 Pista, Huracan Performante, Mclaren LT....They’re all epic cars, all incredibly fast and exciting, all look awesome.

Take your pick and enjoy it

[seawise]

_Leg_ said:

I've come to the conclusion I may as well use the money I would spend getting the maximum enjoyment out of what I already have so it'll be going on road trips, track days and racing and not new cars. I'm a bit concerned I might be turning into an old git.

Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 22 February 17:37

Without wishing to sound rude, i think you are just developing your primary passion from consumption to enjoyment of use. That’s very positive, growing up, developing your taste. It’s so much more fun to use these toys than have them gathering dust under cover. Nothing beats racing, or pan european roadtrips with pals. And this grasping for the latest shiny thing i find difficult to explain to friends and family with it feeling quite embarrassing.

Although whilst i was extremely pleased to get an allocation of the new GT3 and 812 SF, will i enjoy them more than my current GT4 and F12 ? Probably not. And as you say, i get equal joy and excitement from much more humble machinery. My latest Panda 4X4 got me as giddy on delivery as the F12. Strange but true !

[_Leg_]

seawise said:

_Leg_ said:

I've come to the conclusion I may as well use the money I would spend getting the maximum enjoyment out of what I already have so it'll be going on road trips, track days and racing and not new cars. I'm a bit concerned I might be turning into an old git.

Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 22 February 17:37

Without wishing to sound rude, i think you are just developing your primary passion from consumption to enjoyment of use. That’s very positive, growing up, developing your taste. It’s so much more fun to use these toys than have them gathering dust under cover. Nothing beats racing, or pan european roadtrips with pals. And this grasping for the latest shiny thing i find difficult to explain to friends and family with it feeling quite embarrassing.

Although whilst i was extremely pleased to get an allocation of the new GT3 and 812 SF, will i enjoy them more than my current GT4 and F12 ? Probably not. And as you say, i get equal joy and excitement from much more humble machinery. My latest Panda 4X4 got me as giddy on delivery as the F12. Strange but true !

Indeed. To be fair that process has happened over the last 20 years rather than lately. I've been doing 2-3 Euro trips per year for years, doing track days since 2002 and racing since 2014 so saying I'll use the money I would have spent doing that instead wasn't quite true.

This year I'm doing Pompeii and back (down the West coast, up the East coast) with the Mrs in the F12, many track days in my Exige including 3 in Europe, racing with three good mates in two C1s in the C1 racing club endurance championship and a Euro trip in the 458 Spider with some mates. There'll be classic shows and another euro trip in there too but, if you told me I could either keep all the cars and do none of those things or do all those things and only keep my Boxster, I would take the latter option all day long.

Actually, now my mind is thinking about it, if another option was to keep the cars, do the activities but not have my mates with me or have my mates with me and just keep the Boxster, again I would take the latter. Its what you do and who with, not the cars, that make the time special.

*It's fking nice to do it in an F12 though ;-)
** I totally get the Panda thing. My '67 Abarth 595 is in for a respray next week. I'm sooooo excited to get it on the road for this summer.

Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 22 February 22:04

Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 22 February 22:05

[seawise]

_Leg_ said:

Actually, now my mind is thinking about it, if another option was to keep the cars, do the activities but not have my mates with me or have my mates with me and just keep the Boxster, again I would take the latter. Its what you do and who with, not the cars, that make the time special.

Absolutely, it's all about the laughs and sharing the moment. The years I spent racing in club level motorsport was mainly about being amongst friends doing what I loved, than actually winning (that was such a small part of the experience). And now at a track-day I'm bored by lunch unless I'm with pals, but trips like my bi-annual jaunt to Spa and the 'ring with a group of friends I use to race Caterhams with are highlights of my motoring year. The car is almost, but not quite, inconsequential. First trip this year one of my mates will come in my F12 and me in the GT3, because he's between cars and what's the bloody point having the car and not using it with friends, damn the dull miles/depreciation concerns. I remember going to Le Mans several times in my AX GT when I was skint in my first job (that paid £7,5k pa). Can't say it was less of an experience than when I am in one of the wonderful cars I currently own. As you say, it's living the dream that makes it all worthwhile.

[MDL111]

don't race and don't do track days, but fully agree and am certainly looking forward to some more road trips this summer. who care about mileage - goal is always to find another driver to bring one more car along so I can switch between them.

currently short winter snowboarding trips and some autobahn driving will have to do (has the advantage that the car sounds awesome on cold start up when temps are below zero)

[_Leg_]

Haha, yeah, you guys are bringing up some memories. When I met the Mrs she earned nearly twice what I did (£7000 a year) and I had a really stty mk2 XR2. I thought it was a cool car. It was a bit of a heap. Looking back I take solace in the fact that she clearly liked me for me and not my car or money. Strange girl.

[seawise]

MDL111 said:

currently short winter snowboarding trips and some autobahn driving will have to do (has the advantage that the car sounds awesome on cold start up when temps are below zero)

cool, let's see a pic of the FF in the snow with snowboards in the boot ! always makes my day to see a V12 Ferrari being used as it should.

Leg - Fiesta XR2 eh, 90 hp of Dagenhams finest. I remember going out with a girl who's first car was a new alpine white E30 325i convertible. remember losing interest in her when I drove it and thought it a floppy dull Germanic thing. and she was quite a looker too. happy days.

[sparta6]

Yipper said:

NA engines will inevitably go the same way as manual gearboxes. Lower penetration, but rising used prices (due to rarity and fun-factor).

Almost everything will go turbo (and electric hybrid).

Turbos are so powerful now, there is just no way NA engines can compete longterm.

Today, right now, you can (reliably) remap a ~£30k VW Golf R turbo to ~600bhp in ~24hrs for <£10k and it will stick like glue to almost every ~£250k Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche on the market. NA engines simply cannot match that kind of "bang for your buck".

Yes, but the Golf still looks and sounds like a vacuum cleaner

For BHP addicts it's easy to chip a Viper over 800 bhp. Viper looks and sounds pretty cool too.

Edited by sparta6 on Friday 23 February 09:57

[sparta6]

seawise said:

Absolutely, it's all about the laughs and sharing the moment. The years I spent racing in club level motorsport was mainly about being amongst friends doing what I loved, than actually winning (that was such a small part of the experience). And now at a track-day I'm bored by lunch unless I'm with pals, but trips like my bi-annual jaunt to Spa and the 'ring with a group of friends I use to race Caterhams with are highlights of my motoring year. The car is almost, but not quite, inconsequential.

Spot on

[_Leg_]

sparta6 said:

seawise said:

Absolutely, it's all about the laughs and sharing the moment. The years I spent racing in club level motorsport was mainly about being amongst friends doing what I loved, than actually winning (that was such a small part of the experience). And now at a track-day I'm bored by lunch unless I'm with pals, but trips like my bi-annual jaunt to Spa and the 'ring with a group of friends I use to race Caterhams with are highlights of my motoring year. The car is almost, but not quite, inconsequential.

Spot on

Every trip one of the guys that comes utters something that I always get printed into T Shirts afterwards. One of my favourites, from last year's NC500 interrupting a conversation over beers, is;

'There's no point braking if all four wheels are in the air'

Wise words.

And from Wales this week over radio in frustration at losing one of the guys for the thousandth time that day;

'He's got 400bhp, it's a straight road, still fking lost him'

It was his building frustration throughout the day and the fact we were cruising at 60 that made that last one funny.

Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 23 February 10:34

[DeltaOne]

bertie said:

I don’t get why people feel the need to justify their choice and try to rubbish the others.

488 Pista, Huracan Performante, Mclaren LT....They’re all epic cars, all incredibly fast and exciting, all look awesome.

Take your pick and enjoy it

Have to agree with Bertie here, different opinions are usually good fun for debate but lets face it, there's not a bad car being mentioned here.

One thing, to RamboLambo's earlier comment that the Pista will be 325k+, my dealer tells me it'll be 250k+ - in fact that's an area that I think Ferrari are pretty fair with clients on - unlike McLaren - the 488P will be cheaper new than a loaded 720.

[Bunty Killa]

That's a steal at that price!

DeltaOne said:

One thing, to RamboLambo's earlier comment that the Pista will be 325k+, my dealer tells me it'll be 250k+ - in fact that's an area that I think Ferrari are pretty fair with clients on - unlike McLaren - the 488P will be cheaper new than a loaded 720.

[_Leg_]

DeltaOne said:

bertie said:

I don’t get why people feel the need to justify their choice and try to rubbish the others.

488 Pista, Huracan Performante, Mclaren LT....They’re all epic cars, all incredibly fast and exciting, all look awesome.

Take your pick and enjoy it

Have to agree with Bertie here, different opinions are usually good fun for debate but lets face it, there's not a bad car being mentioned here.

One thing, to RamboLambo's earlier comment that the Pista will be 325k+, my dealer tells me it'll be 250k+ - in fact that's an area that I think Ferrari are pretty fair with clients on - unlike McLaren - the 488P will be cheaper new than a loaded 720.

Did he mean once it's specced up with all the carbon bits? Didnt someone say that there would be a carbon wheels option? They won't be cheap.

[WDISMYL]

Sorry but that is a ridiculous comparison.

The 720s is available to all and sundry. The Pista will almost certainly command an initial £100k premium which is why there is in part insane demand for it. You are comparing apples with oranges. If the cars were issued to customers on an auction basis they would not be trading at £250k!

[sparta6]

_Leg_ said:

Didnt someone say that there would be a carbon wheels option? They won't be cheap.

Coming to a kerbstone very soon