360 Manual or F1 430?
Discussion
i think you need to try both, i had a 430 manual so i guess best of both worlds, it was a great car, the F1 gets mixed reviews so i would say you need to drive it to see if it works for you. i would definitely buy a manual 360 though, i think its a great looking car and the sound is just epic, plus it has the advantage of being a touch slower enabling you to access the power and noise more often in this speed hating PC world of ours! My main concern with the 360 would be around the ongoing running costs, its a old car now and the belt service is an expensive game... my 430 was pretty cheap to run, only requiring servicing and some basic maintenance (couple of Track Rod ends).
i guess the other thing to consider is if the value associated with manuals blows over, i can't see the value of the F1 cars either 360 or 430 changing much, as thats the entry point price into modern'ish Ferrari ownership with the new cars being so expensive now. obviously if the manual premium dissolves you've effective bought off the top of the market. But without a crystal ball who knows!
i guess the other thing to consider is if the value associated with manuals blows over, i can't see the value of the F1 cars either 360 or 430 changing much, as thats the entry point price into modern'ish Ferrari ownership with the new cars being so expensive now. obviously if the manual premium dissolves you've effective bought off the top of the market. But without a crystal ball who knows!
Nano2nd said:
My main concern with the 360 would be around the ongoing running costs, its a old car now and the belt service is an expensive game...
Belt service isn't too awful though - mine had that this year and I think it cost me under £2k. Obviously that's a fair chunk of cash, but it won't need doing for another 3 years, and compared to the ~£1k an annual service usually seems to cost, didn't seem that significant.They are definitely old cars - of the 4 cars I own, the 360 is the oldest. But the funny thing is - I think it's the car that's had the least issues. It genuinely surprises me if anything goes wrong with it, and it's really quite rare that it does.
WCZ said:
I'm not too keen on the styling of the 360 anymore, it's not bad but needs the cs tweaks to set it off
the 430 still looks amazing and drives much better
the 430 still looks amazing and drives much better
MarkM3Evoplus said:
Always thought 360 looked better than 355 (which I thought looked dated when it came out.
430 is not as good looking as a 360 imo, but still nice, so manual 360 gets my vote and almost bought one myself a while back
I've owned a 360 for 5 years but still have to look reasonably closely to know whether I'm looking at a 360 or a 430. At least from an exterior point of view, they're not all that different!430 is not as good looking as a 360 imo, but still nice, so manual 360 gets my vote and almost bought one myself a while back
You're in the minority thinking that the 360 is better looking than a 355 though. Gorgeous looking car - I think the 458 was the first car since then that can compare in looks.
What has happened with the 360 & 430 reminds me a little of how the 964 and 993 were. The 993 was the popular one, and yet now people seem to want 964s more on the whole.
Time will tell, but the 360 was the last V8 Ferrari to have that buzzy/screamy NA V8 sound (the F430 is a more baritone warble, still nice), and it seems to be more accepted than years ago.
E-diff/looks/engine etc aside on the F430, I understand they are more the same car than some would have you believe. I’m sure if people modified Ferrari’s like they do in the air cooled 911 world then there would be more tasty upgrades for the 360 out there....
To me, the biggest weakness of the 360 is actually tyre choices. The 430 has 19in wheels, meaning decent modern Michelins etc are available. I know someone who’s tried a 360 on slightly wrong size Michelins and says it transforms the car. I’ve not been brave enough to do it myself!
I could not want a faster car for the road, and I enjoy the short gearing which allows you to get to rev out the car without ending up in jail! (Fellow Porsche owners in particular will understand!)
Time will tell, but the 360 was the last V8 Ferrari to have that buzzy/screamy NA V8 sound (the F430 is a more baritone warble, still nice), and it seems to be more accepted than years ago.
E-diff/looks/engine etc aside on the F430, I understand they are more the same car than some would have you believe. I’m sure if people modified Ferrari’s like they do in the air cooled 911 world then there would be more tasty upgrades for the 360 out there....
To me, the biggest weakness of the 360 is actually tyre choices. The 430 has 19in wheels, meaning decent modern Michelins etc are available. I know someone who’s tried a 360 on slightly wrong size Michelins and says it transforms the car. I’ve not been brave enough to do it myself!
I could not want a faster car for the road, and I enjoy the short gearing which allows you to get to rev out the car without ending up in jail! (Fellow Porsche owners in particular will understand!)
TB303 said:
To me, the biggest weakness of the 360 is actually tyre choices. The 430 has 19in wheels, meaning decent modern Michelins etc are available. I know someone who’s tried a 360 on slightly wrong size Michelins and says it transforms the car. I’ve not been brave enough to do it myself!
Yeah, it is a pain - on the road, the Pirelli are crap (which is also my opinion on every other car I've had the misfortune to buy with Pirelli on). Having said that - I've done the Supercar weekend every year I've owned the 360, and on the track - when up to decent temperature - they're pretty good and much better than I expected. I'd still ditch them in a nano second if I could get the right size Michelin though!Here is my thoughts,
I have owned a manual 360, had it for about 5 years, (two 355s both manual)
Presently own a 360F1 (with CS software on the TCU) also a 430 scuderia,
Manual 360 for me is lovely in terms of rarity and if you do a lot of town driving probably better for clutch, they do have their issues as they use cables to shift the gearbox, which can stretch and arent cheap to repair, also any significant wear in any of the bushes and engine mounts can create issues with gear shifts, in particular fast accelartion in 1st to 2nd gear, ( i had this and it was the bushes which resoved the issue)
The F1 360 takes a little while to get used to, and i mean a good few days of how you balance the throttle for taking away, once you are on the move, then systme is great and the downshifts are excellent,
The 430 scud F1 System is perfect, but you still have the throttle balance to learn for clean take offs and hill starts , but once you have the nack, then you dont even think about i.
for me looks wise i prefer the 360, mine has the CS bumpers, wheels, skirts etc, ,
i always find it funny when people say the 360 is the ugly duckling but then everyone thinks the CS is one of the best ferraris ever made, hence the £200k price tag,
stock 430 for me isnt a great looking car, even the scud i dont think is as nice as the 360, but each to their own,
a stock 430 will drive with a slightly more modern feel than a 360, in coupe form certainly, the spiders , 355, 360, 430, lost too much ridgity and on uneven roads compared to a boxster dont feel that great, great with top down though,
regards
Scott.
I have owned a manual 360, had it for about 5 years, (two 355s both manual)
Presently own a 360F1 (with CS software on the TCU) also a 430 scuderia,
Manual 360 for me is lovely in terms of rarity and if you do a lot of town driving probably better for clutch, they do have their issues as they use cables to shift the gearbox, which can stretch and arent cheap to repair, also any significant wear in any of the bushes and engine mounts can create issues with gear shifts, in particular fast accelartion in 1st to 2nd gear, ( i had this and it was the bushes which resoved the issue)
The F1 360 takes a little while to get used to, and i mean a good few days of how you balance the throttle for taking away, once you are on the move, then systme is great and the downshifts are excellent,
The 430 scud F1 System is perfect, but you still have the throttle balance to learn for clean take offs and hill starts , but once you have the nack, then you dont even think about i.
for me looks wise i prefer the 360, mine has the CS bumpers, wheels, skirts etc, ,
i always find it funny when people say the 360 is the ugly duckling but then everyone thinks the CS is one of the best ferraris ever made, hence the £200k price tag,
stock 430 for me isnt a great looking car, even the scud i dont think is as nice as the 360, but each to their own,
a stock 430 will drive with a slightly more modern feel than a 360, in coupe form certainly, the spiders , 355, 360, 430, lost too much ridgity and on uneven roads compared to a boxster dont feel that great, great with top down though,
regards
Scott.
davek_964 said:
Yeah, it is a pain - on the road, the Pirelli are crap (which is also my opinion on every other car I've had the misfortune to buy with Pirelli on). Having said that - I've done the Supercar weekend every year I've owned the 360, and on the track - when up to decent temperature - they're pretty good and much better than I expected. I'd still ditch them in a nano second if I could get the right size Michelin though!
Agree on the pirellis - the 2 rear pirellis on my 981 Spyder (fitted from factory) were close to the limit so I took the opportunity to bite the bullet and fit Michelin PS4S all round. Haven’t got the car back yet but it’s said to transform the handling (which was already amazing)... now if only we could get them on our 360s!lauris67 said:
Here is my thoughts,
I have owned a manual 360, had it for about 5 years, (two 355s both manual)
Presently own a 360F1 (with CS software on the TCU) also a 430 scuderia,
Manual 360 for me is lovely in terms of rarity and if you do a lot of town driving probably better for clutch, they do have their issues as they use cables to shift the gearbox, which can stretch and arent cheap to repair, also any significant wear in any of the bushes and engine mounts can create issues with gear shifts, in particular fast accelartion in 1st to 2nd gear, ( i had this and it was the bushes which resoved the issue)
The F1 360 takes a little while to get used to, and i mean a good few days of how you balance the throttle for taking away, once you are on the move, then systme is great and the downshifts are excellent,
The 430 scud F1 System is perfect, but you still have the throttle balance to learn for clean take offs and hill starts , but once you have the nack, then you dont even think about i.
for me looks wise i prefer the 360, mine has the CS bumpers, wheels, skirts etc, ,
i always find it funny when people say the 360 is the ugly duckling but then everyone thinks the CS is one of the best ferraris ever made, hence the £200k price tag,
stock 430 for me isnt a great looking car, even the scud i dont think is as nice as the 360, but each to their own,
a stock 430 will drive with a slightly more modern feel than a 360, in coupe form certainly, the spiders , 355, 360, 430, lost too much ridgity and on uneven roads compared to a boxster dont feel that great, great with top down though,
regards
Scott.
Great write up. Also on the gear shift comments, clutch release bearing is another one that goes with the 360, and is worth changing when changing the clutch.I have owned a manual 360, had it for about 5 years, (two 355s both manual)
Presently own a 360F1 (with CS software on the TCU) also a 430 scuderia,
Manual 360 for me is lovely in terms of rarity and if you do a lot of town driving probably better for clutch, they do have their issues as they use cables to shift the gearbox, which can stretch and arent cheap to repair, also any significant wear in any of the bushes and engine mounts can create issues with gear shifts, in particular fast accelartion in 1st to 2nd gear, ( i had this and it was the bushes which resoved the issue)
The F1 360 takes a little while to get used to, and i mean a good few days of how you balance the throttle for taking away, once you are on the move, then systme is great and the downshifts are excellent,
The 430 scud F1 System is perfect, but you still have the throttle balance to learn for clean take offs and hill starts , but once you have the nack, then you dont even think about i.
for me looks wise i prefer the 360, mine has the CS bumpers, wheels, skirts etc, ,
i always find it funny when people say the 360 is the ugly duckling but then everyone thinks the CS is one of the best ferraris ever made, hence the £200k price tag,
stock 430 for me isnt a great looking car, even the scud i dont think is as nice as the 360, but each to their own,
a stock 430 will drive with a slightly more modern feel than a 360, in coupe form certainly, the spiders , 355, 360, 430, lost too much ridgity and on uneven roads compared to a boxster dont feel that great, great with top down though,
regards
Scott.
TB303 said:
Great write up. Also on the gear shift comments, clutch release bearing is another one that goes with the 360, and is worth changing when changing the clutch.
Am I right in thinking it's normally the release bearing going before the clutch has worn out?What have owners of a 360 manual found when changing the clutch regarding wear, the Maserati 4200 with a manual gearbox clutch have heard lasting up to 100,000 miles but the release bearing is the weak link.
Raygun said:
Am I right in thinking it's normally the release bearing going before the clutch has worn out?
What have owners of a 360 manual found when changing the clutch regarding wear, the Maserati 4200 with a manual gearbox clutch have heard lasting up to 100,000 miles but the release bearing is the weak link.
Had my 360 manual clutch changed whilst gearbox was out for repair, the clutch having done 33k from new was still left with a fair amount of wear in it, however the release bearing was shot. Whilst on subject I would not change my car for any other, it’s everything one , or should I say I could ask for. Even a lottery win would not make me seek a change.What have owners of a 360 manual found when changing the clutch regarding wear, the Maserati 4200 with a manual gearbox clutch have heard lasting up to 100,000 miles but the release bearing is the weak link.
I could write a thesis on my thoughts for my/ the 360 in manual form. Mike
Roof down said:
Raygun said:
Am I right in thinking it's normally the release bearing going before the clutch has worn out?
What have owners of a 360 manual found when changing the clutch regarding wear, the Maserati 4200 with a manual gearbox clutch have heard lasting up to 100,000 miles but the release bearing is the weak link.
Had my 360 manual clutch changed whilst gearbox was out for repair, the clutch having done 33k from new was still left with a fair amount of wear in it, however the release bearing was shot. Whilst on subject I would not change my car for any other, it’s everything one , or should I say I could ask for. Even a lottery win would not make me seek a change.What have owners of a 360 manual found when changing the clutch regarding wear, the Maserati 4200 with a manual gearbox clutch have heard lasting up to 100,000 miles but the release bearing is the weak link.
I could write a thesis on my thoughts for my/ the 360 in manual form. Mike
Also I do believe MD Clutches can re-line a clutch used on a manual 360.
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