The 488 Replacement
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
garystoybox said:
oo7ml said:
Sorry, are you saying the 488 replacement will have a 2.0l engine, or do you mean in years to come?
To be honest I was only half listening to him, being more interested in looking over my new car. He said he was there Thursday last week and all the talk was of 2l and 800bhp as the engineers target. I raised my eyebrows when he said that as well! I didn’t ask any other questions.It’s apparent that the new car floor shell is to be used to push 488 upmarket price wise to compete head on with 720s (March unveil) and to support the new ‘smaller’ Dino car in a couple of years. Maybe this is the car that would have a 2l V6 with hybrid? Time will tell......
I can see a 2.0 litre hybrid sitting alongside a larger turbo V8, but it would be a very bold move to go small hybrid only.
1) An uprated V8 turbo in a facelift model.
2) A brand new, V8 turbo-Hybrid in a brand new from scratch model (In long wheelbase form)
3) A V6 Twin turbo-hybrid in a brand new from scratch model (in short wheelbase form)
The smallest capacity of any of these engines is the V6 twin turbo, which is said to be a 2.9 litre engine, loosely related to the Alfa Romeo 2.9 V6 (but not the same engine).
Ferrari going from a 3.9 V8 turbo to a 2.9 V6 turbo makes far more sense, than going to a 2.0 V6 turbo immediately (it may possibly come down to being a 2.0 turbo eventually, but not straight away)
The cost of the 488 replacement is easily going to be over £200,000/$250,000 (I suspect it will probably be closer to £250,000/$315,000). People paying that sort of money for a car are not the type who are worrying about 2.0 litre tax limits! (in fact, breaking the 2.0 tax limit will be a badge of honour to them!)
The Jaguar F type 2.0 on the other hand has a list price of @ a quarter, to a fifth, of the Ferrari's list price, and for those buyers, a hefty tax hike for an engine bigger than 2.0 litres will matter.
At the moment there's a lot of speculation going on about the 488 replacement, a lot of which should become clearer in March at the Geneva motor show, when the (first) car will be unveiled.
One thing I would say though is, the only place where a 2.0 litre turbo engine for the 488 replacement has even been mentioned, is in this thread. Every other reference to a V6 turbo engine in the 488 replacement, has been about a 2.9 litre V6 twin turbo engine (with hybrid technology added).
they do have that - its called the La Ferrari !
V12 and mid engined is the pinnacle so why degrade the model by making a standard model when they can sell £2m + Laf Apertas.
Im with you though, it would be nice if there was another v12
V12 and mid engined is the pinnacle so why degrade the model by making a standard model when they can sell £2m + Laf Apertas.
Im with you though, it would be nice if there was another v12
boxerTen said:
Agree on both points. A mid-engined V12 sitting at a similar point and price in the range as the 812 would be ideal.
I think exactly that said above for 488.2 - highly likely a 2.9 v6 and then wait for 2-3 yrs further facelift of model.
much more truth i would have thought in the dino model being a 2l entry car.
Any chit chat on the chassis technology ? I still dont reckon there will be carbon tubs for 488 replacement ...
Ferrari have the brand power so dont need the standard Porto and 488 to have million dollar tech chassis when they know people will pay £350k- £1m for special editions that do have it.
much more truth i would have thought in the dino model being a 2l entry car.
Any chit chat on the chassis technology ? I still dont reckon there will be carbon tubs for 488 replacement ...
Ferrari have the brand power so dont need the standard Porto and 488 to have million dollar tech chassis when they know people will pay £350k- £1m for special editions that do have it.
f1ten said:
they do have that - its called the La Ferrari !
V12 and mid engined is the pinnacle so why degrade the model by making a standard model when they can sell £2m + Laf Apertas.
Im with you though, it would be nice if there was another v12
Well yes, but they could still sell those and do a “normal” model as well - see 512TR and F50 as roughly contemporary cars. V12 and mid engined is the pinnacle so why degrade the model by making a standard model when they can sell £2m + Laf Apertas.
Im with you though, it would be nice if there was another v12
boxerTen said:
Agree on both points. A mid-engined V12 sitting at a similar point and price in the range as the 812 would be ideal.
The 488 is unloved - in spite of good reviews - and Ferrari are facing increasing competition from McLaren. Most of their models are V8 mid-engined cars which compete with the 488 and it would be reasonable for Ferrari to introduce a small range of 488 variants to compete at different price points.
There’s no doubt the next equivalent of the 488 will be more expensive - the car already costs nearly £200k and most buyers will put £30 - 50k options on it. Wheels, seats, carbon accounted for most of the £44k I put on mine. Ferrari increased the base price by £12k last year and I expect any new models will further test what increases the market will bear. Not only that, but if the exchange rate looks likely to stay where it is, that will add further to the pressure to increase prices. Seems likely the next car, optioned up, will approach £300k at which point I would say their build quality is simply not good enough for the price charged.
There’s no doubt the next equivalent of the 488 will be more expensive - the car already costs nearly £200k and most buyers will put £30 - 50k options on it. Wheels, seats, carbon accounted for most of the £44k I put on mine. Ferrari increased the base price by £12k last year and I expect any new models will further test what increases the market will bear. Not only that, but if the exchange rate looks likely to stay where it is, that will add further to the pressure to increase prices. Seems likely the next car, optioned up, will approach £300k at which point I would say their build quality is simply not good enough for the price charged.
Car pricing across all mid range and high end luxury has gone through the roof in the last 10 years and the consumer is now losing more money so eventually things will have to come under pressure, wel at least on the mid range cars where people are kidding themselves on that they can afford the depreciation?!
Edited by f1ten on Tuesday 25th December 13:53
Firstly prices will be up and down anyway over the next 12 -24 months due to financial uncertainty and the political climate. The announcement of a new model is unlikely to effect 488/458 prices in a big hit because they will not be start becoming available for a very long time, even when they do new prices are likely to be £250k plus new which means an even bigger premium on the used market. a 200k 488 or 160k 458 is going to look like a bargain.
Secondly I cannot understand why people are so obsessed with prices on these models, if you want an investment go and buy a classic not a modern car.
I work in the motorsport industry as a consultant. Everything I am hearing is that Ferrari are doing lots of work on hybrid engines and looking at all electric options for both motorsport and the more distant future. Let's face it they would be mad not to. Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Jaguar have entered teams into Formula E and Mcclaren has a big hand in the design of the Formula E car. It would not surprise me if we see Maserati or Ferrari announced for Formula E in the not too distant future.
They have not stopped the manufacture of the 488, they are still fulfilling outstanding orders and I hear that's going to be at least another 2 years on the spider.
Don't forget in the real world not many people care if a sports car is turbo charged or not. The whole N/A thing will make a difference to a Ferrari petrolheads, most people will want the newest and fastest model.
Secondly I cannot understand why people are so obsessed with prices on these models, if you want an investment go and buy a classic not a modern car.
I work in the motorsport industry as a consultant. Everything I am hearing is that Ferrari are doing lots of work on hybrid engines and looking at all electric options for both motorsport and the more distant future. Let's face it they would be mad not to. Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Jaguar have entered teams into Formula E and Mcclaren has a big hand in the design of the Formula E car. It would not surprise me if we see Maserati or Ferrari announced for Formula E in the not too distant future.
They have not stopped the manufacture of the 488, they are still fulfilling outstanding orders and I hear that's going to be at least another 2 years on the spider.
Don't forget in the real world not many people care if a sports car is turbo charged or not. The whole N/A thing will make a difference to a Ferrari petrolheads, most people will want the newest and fastest model.
Something is afoot with the 488 because if I look at the current configurator, the number of options is greatly reduced. It was never huge but now the choices are much more limited. It may be they’ve done this because it’s now impossible to order a car anyway so what’s the point in providing a configurator which goes down to every detail?
I agree that since the next car will likely be much more expensive, well specified 488s will hold their value but you might not want to do the calculation of how much it’s cost per mile.
Strange times, last time I looked at Porsche’s Configurator, all the prices had gone and the options price list for Ferrari is only disclosed when you place an order, for fear presumably of the ridicule which widespread publication would create.
I like Ferraris, I have two of them, but I fear they are moving out of my financial reach/ability to justify.
I agree that since the next car will likely be much more expensive, well specified 488s will hold their value but you might not want to do the calculation of how much it’s cost per mile.
Strange times, last time I looked at Porsche’s Configurator, all the prices had gone and the options price list for Ferrari is only disclosed when you place an order, for fear presumably of the ridicule which widespread publication would create.
I like Ferraris, I have two of them, but I fear they are moving out of my financial reach/ability to justify.
blueSL said:
Something is afoot with the 488 because if I look at the current configurator, the number of options is greatly reduced. It was never huge but now the choices are much more limited. It may be they’ve done this because it’s now impossible to order a car anyway so what’s the point in providing a configurator which goes down to every detail?
I agree that since the next car will likely be much more expensive, well specified 488s will hold their value but you might not want to do the calculation of how much it’s cost per mile.
Strange times, last time I looked at Porsche’s Configurator, all the prices had gone and the options price list for Ferrari is only disclosed when you place an order, for fear presumably of the ridicule which widespread publication would create.
I like Ferraris, I have two of them, but I fear they are moving out of my financial reach/ability to justify.
Interesting assessment. With the 7% price increase last year they have become more expensive. I probably got the last 488 at the old price. My car was 220k and would have been 235k at the new prices. Something tells me the replacement will be 250k+I agree that since the next car will likely be much more expensive, well specified 488s will hold their value but you might not want to do the calculation of how much it’s cost per mile.
Strange times, last time I looked at Porsche’s Configurator, all the prices had gone and the options price list for Ferrari is only disclosed when you place an order, for fear presumably of the ridicule which widespread publication would create.
I like Ferraris, I have two of them, but I fear they are moving out of my financial reach/ability to justify.
Its going to have to be a good step up for me to part with the cash for the newer model.
I guess though a lot of people that buy these cars have so much money 50k is neither here nor their for them.
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