Senna or P1

Author
Discussion

Juno

Original Poster:

4,481 posts

248 months

Tuesday 5th March 2019
quotequote all
Not that I can afford either but surely Senna is now the performance king,however the P1 is a stunning looker, which would it be if you were making the choice?

Which one will turn out to be the ultimate King of Mclaren cars and must have in the long run.

The F1 is obviously so far out in front it will probably never be caught but the above two are from the same era and I think worthy of comparison.

Edited by Juno on Tuesday 5th March 22:57

Captain Smerc

3,015 posts

115 months

Tuesday 5th March 2019
quotequote all
P1 , Senna looks like it's been styled by Lego .

garystoybox

768 posts

116 months

Tuesday 5th March 2019
quotequote all
Neither.... the P1 suffered from terrible reliability issues, was too compromised by early hybrid config/tech, which is already outdated.... must admit though, it is far and away the best looking McLaren ever imo.
The Senna... looks only a mother could love, totally track focussed, not trading at any premium and will no doubt be surpassed performance wise by 2/3 new Mclarens in the next 36 months.
Not being anti Mclaren as I think this this will apply to most of their competitors also. I.e. I don’t think in 20 years we’ll look back and consider any of the current crop as ‘one of the best ever’. Of course I could be totally wrong!

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Ignoring the fact that I could not afford to run it, for me it would be the P1 in a dark color. Stunning looking car and by far the best looking modern McLaren imo.

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
garystoybox said:
Neither.... the P1 suffered from terrible reliability issues, was too compromised by early hybrid config/tech, which is already outdated.... must admit though, it is far and away the best looking McLaren ever imo.
The Senna... looks only a mother could love, totally track focussed, not trading at any premium and will no doubt be surpassed performance wise by 2/3 new Mclarens in the next 36 months.
Not being anti Mclaren as I think this this will apply to most of their competitors also. I.e. I don’t think in 20 years we’ll look back and consider any of the current crop as ‘one of the best ever’. Of course I could be totally wrong!
Much of what you say is true, although there is some speculation also.
I am unaware that Sennas are "not trading at any premium". At the moment there are three listed on PH Classifieds, the cheapest at £100k over RRP. On mobile.de there are none listed for sale. I know for a fact of some that have changed hands at six-figure premiums.
Regarding whether the Senna's performance will be surpassed in the next 36 months by 2/3 other McLarens, that is unlikely. The things that make the car faster than other McLarens around a track are its weight, its power and its aerodynamics. Although of course the car's power can and will be exceeded, there is no McLaren road car in the pipeline that will weigh as little, and none with aerodynamics as extreme as the Senna's. I expect that there will not be another McLaren that is as fast around a circuit until the successor to the P1. That car will be all-electric, cost twice as much, and will not appeal to enthusaists who prefer pistons to electrical windings.

My own guess is that, in five years' time, the Senna will trade at a higher price than the P1, for several reasons:
- P1 based on technology that, as you say, will be obsolesced.
- By that point, performance-orientated "supercars" will mostly if not entirely be hybrid or electric. Senna will be looked upon as one of the last of the great petrol-engined driver's cars.
- Indeed the Senna's looks are very much an acquired taste, but there are enough people to whom the looks appeal and, for them, the Senna is the best example of that functional, brutalist look.
- You can never, ever beat light weight in a car. P1 weighs about 25% more, and that difference is quite noticeable.


Edited by flemke on Wednesday 6th March 08:09

Gameface

16,565 posts

76 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
garystoybox said:
the P1 suffered from terrible reliability
Is that really the case?

stain

1,051 posts

209 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Battery replacement costs and warranties are a huge issue on the 3 hypercars.

Don1

15,936 posts

207 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
It would be a lovely quandary to have, but the P1 for me based on looks alone. I know Flemke will turn away in disgust at this point, but I will have mine in reflex charcoal.

As money would be no object, I would contact the supplier of the batteries (a place where I currently find employment), and swap out the packs for their new battery technology and keep it evergreen.

Camlet

1,132 posts

148 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
If I had to choose, it would be the Senna. But only because the batteries on the P1 (like all big hybrids) have a shelf-life, and I understand, are insanely expensive to replace now. Goodness knows what the replacement cost will be like in 10+ years time.

garystoybox

768 posts

116 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Gameface said:
Is that really the case?
To be honest i’m basing this on the one person I know who owned one from new so a small sample size! For him it really was like the quote you normally associate with boats. I.e. only happy days were the day he got it and the day he sold it. I’m sure the latter was sweetened by the £650k profit he made. The guy he sold the car to later took a £500k bath on it. He only offloaded it because the thing never worked when he wanted to use it. As a comparison his 918 has been faultless.
As per the other considered comments, maybe the Senna will be better remembered as the faster, cheaper, lighter car.

theRossatron

1,028 posts

231 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
I think P1 for me, the looks are a big part of that choice.

BlackR8

459 posts

76 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Having seen a Senna in the flesh recently in a deep black/purple tone I have to admit it whilst it doesn't picture well, in person the sheer presence and literally spaceship type styling is something else. A Veyron which was near the Senna when I saw it almost looked like a everyday car such was the Senna's presence.

That being said I think the P1 is a prettier car so that would get my vote. I think being part of the holy trinity with the LaF and 918 will also mean it will have a special place in the history books so long term I think it will do better in terms of how it will be remembered and hence valued.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Can't I have both.....

Personally I think the Senna is astonishing, it has a real presence and focus that makes it look utterly beautiful in the flesh, unconventional but beautiful.

The P1 though with it's hybrid power and swooping lines is equally stunning and despite it's flaws will go down in history as a stand-out McLaren.

If it had to be one, it would be the Senna for me

Thorney

408 posts

259 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Saw both parked next to each other at Mclaren Birmingham this week, the Senna was an exposed carbon version (+£200k) and looked awesome but the P1 beats it hands down on looks alone.

The main thing stopping me getting a P1 (other than the £1.4m of course!) is the battery and maintenance, its astonishingly expensive and even with what I do for a living I would baulk at the parts costs for them.


isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
I know of 2 people who have both and unlike flemke, both seem to prefer the P1 to drive, by some distance I might add. The P1 fwiw in my opinion looks way better.

P.S I think one can expect Mclaren to be true to form and market the 7XX LT as being as quick as the Senna around some circuits when that car comes out as they said about the 675 vs the P1... That said given a new super sticky trofeo probably will be produced to compete with the Cup2 R, it might even be true.

WCZ

10,492 posts

193 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
Senna, the P1 is prettier but I'm not keen on the batteries

I also think the P1 was tarnished by the reliability issues and the hush hush ring time mess / other false lap time promises

I'd rather have a p1 gtr lm than a senna though

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
I know of 2 people who have both and unlike flemke, both seem to prefer the P1 to drive, by some distance I might add. The P1 fwiw in my opinion looks way better.

P.S I think one can expect Mclaren to be true to form and market the 7XX LT as being as quick as the Senna around some circuits when that car comes out as they said about the 675 vs the P1... That said given a new super sticky trofeo probably will be produced to compete with the Cup2 R, it might even be true.
Different people like different ways of driving. For me the worst things about the P1 are its weight and those stupid synthetic pops and wheezes that emanate from behind the driver's head. I also think the lack of steering returnability detracts from it. Put it this way: McLaren learned a few things about how to improve the driving experience between the P1 (their second product) and the Senna (their seventh product).
I do agree about the looks - P1 is the second-best looking modern McLaren, after the 12C.

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
flemke said:
Different people like different ways of driving. For me the worst things about the P1 are its weight and those stupid synthetic pops and wheezes that emanate from behind the driver's head. I also think the lack of steering returnability detracts from it. Put it this way: McLaren learned a few things about how to improve the driving experience between the P1 (their second product) and the Senna (their seventh product).
Yes the pops and wheezes were a bit weird when I was lucky enough to passenger in a friend's car but isn't it more because supposedly the hybrid system is actively charging or doing something anyway beyond what the driver is doing with the throttle? In any case yes I do agree it's something unnecessary. I'm sure the Senna is the more polished product of course being much further down the product development chain but I guess it's a more subjective issue on whether it's a more exciting car to drive generally than the P1.

Regarding the weight though, is a P1 really that heavy? - it's about 1550kg fully fuelled, the power to weight of the car is well over 550 hp/ton given it's got 900hp or something. That's not too far off the Senna (800hp, 1350kg fully fuelled).


MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
flemke said:
garystoybox said:
Neither.... the P1 suffered from terrible reliability issues, was too compromised by early hybrid config/tech, which is already outdated.... must admit though, it is far and away the best looking McLaren ever imo.
The Senna... looks only a mother could love, totally track focussed, not trading at any premium and will no doubt be surpassed performance wise by 2/3 new Mclarens in the next 36 months.
Not being anti Mclaren as I think this this will apply to most of their competitors also. I.e. I don’t think in 20 years we’ll look back and consider any of the current crop as ‘one of the best ever’. Of course I could be totally wrong!
Much of what you say is true, although there is some speculation also.
I am unaware that Sennas are "not trading at any premium". At the moment there are three listed on PH Classifieds, the cheapest at £100k over RRP. On mobile.de there are none listed for sale. I know for a fact of some that have changed hands at six-figure premiums.
Regarding whether the Senna's performance will be surpassed in the next 36 months by 2/3 other McLarens, that is unlikely. The things that make the car faster than other McLarens around a track are its weight, its power and its aerodynamics. Although of course the car's power can and will be exceeded, there is no McLaren road car in the pipeline that will weigh as little, and none with aerodynamics as extreme as the Senna's. I expect that there will not be another McLaren that is as fast around a circuit until the successor to the P1. That car will be all-electric, cost twice as much, and will not appeal to enthusaists who prefer pistons to electrical windings.

My own guess is that, in five years' time, the Senna will trade at a higher price than the P1, for several reasons:
- P1 based on technology that, as you say, will be obsolesced.
- By that point, performance-orientated "supercars" will mostly if not entirely be hybrid or electric. Senna will be looked upon as one of the last of the great petrol-engined driver's cars.
- Indeed the Senna's looks are very much an acquired taste, but there are enough people to whom the looks appeal and, for them, the Senna is the best example of that functional, brutalist look.
- You can never, ever beat light weight in a car. P1 weighs about 25% more, and that difference is quite noticeable.


Edited by flemke on Wednesday 6th March 08:09
just as fyi - there are actually 4 listed (well, one is in the UK)

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?dam...



flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Wednesday 6th March 2019
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
flemke said:
Different people like different ways of driving. For me the worst things about the P1 are its weight and those stupid synthetic pops and wheezes that emanate from behind the driver's head. I also think the lack of steering returnability detracts from it. Put it this way: McLaren learned a few things about how to improve the driving experience between the P1 (their second product) and the Senna (their seventh product).
Yes the pops and wheezes were a bit weird when I was lucky enough to passenger in a friend's car but isn't it more because supposedly the hybrid system is actively charging or doing something anyway beyond what the driver is doing with the throttle? In any case yes I do agree it's something unnecessary. I'm sure the Senna is the more polished product of course being much further down the product development chain but I guess it's a more subjective issue on whether it's a more exciting car to drive generally than the P1.

Regarding the weight though, is a P1 really that heavy? - it's about 1550kg fully fuelled, the power to weight of the car is well over 550 hp/ton given it's got 900hp or something. That's not too far off the Senna (800hp, 1350kg fully fuelled).
Quoted kerb weight 197 kg more than the Senna's. I was not thinking about power-to-weight, which in all these cars is way OTT, but more about lateral g, braking and overall nimbleness. In the P1 I thought that its weight (whatever it was) was noticeable, and in the Senna I thought its lack of weight was noticeable.
Then there is the message that - in my mind - each of the cars sends. The P1's message, aimed at Monaco and Knightsbridge audiences, is "Look at me - aren't I cool, stylish, and rich?" The Senna's message, aimed at Silverstone audiences, is "Please don't look at me. The only reason that I am driving something this ugly is that I really care about the driving, not the message."