Discussion
Murph7355 said:
It'd be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff 
I did 40k miles in my 355 over 5-6yrs. It was brilliant. Special in every way. The steering was a bit light, but it could be hustled properly.
A 360 is more modern, but that's not always a good thing. I found it a bit...anemic. The Challenge Stradale, IMO, is how the 360 should have been all along (albeit perhaps with the comfortable interior).
(Bought an Aston V8 Vantage to replace the 355. Also a very good car. Control weights better matched than the 355, very pretty car and a lovely cabin. Great noise. Don't have quite the same pangs when I see these. Think my other half preferred it though).
It would indeed be dull. I did 40k miles in my 355 over 5-6yrs. It was brilliant. Special in every way. The steering was a bit light, but it could be hustled properly.
A 360 is more modern, but that's not always a good thing. I found it a bit...anemic. The Challenge Stradale, IMO, is how the 360 should have been all along (albeit perhaps with the comfortable interior).
(Bought an Aston V8 Vantage to replace the 355. Also a very good car. Control weights better matched than the 355, very pretty car and a lovely cabin. Great noise. Don't have quite the same pangs when I see these. Think my other half preferred it though).
AM V8 V also a very good car ? I guess it depends on your point of reference. Having owned various 996/997 GT3's and GT2's over the years, I thought I fancied a change. And when an AM V8 V N400 appeared at an AM dealer in a fetching shade of metallic orange, I arranged a viewing/testdrive, and hotfoot it over there. What followed was probably the most disappointing test drive I've ever experienced.
Whilst the bare stats indicated the car should be something the equal of a N/A Porsche 996/997 GT car, the reality was very different. I'll give you the noise thing,and the pretty looks, along with the cachet of driving around in something thoroughly British, but beyond that, the car was hopeless dynamically.
Either the car weighed far more than it had any right to bearing in mind its construction (1630kg) or Aston's ponies aren't generously sized items (or both) So despite sounding wonderful, it felt positively pedestrian, even when its neck was being wrung.
I thought the control weights (something Porsche excel at) were abysmal, overly light steering with zero feel and little in the way of feedback, a stodgy clutch pedal and ridiculously long throttle pedal. The gearbox was "ok", but nothing more than that.
When the V8V was launched, it was lauded (by none other than Aston Martin ...) as a worthy opponent to Stuttgart's products.
The reality was very different, and having corresponded with an individual who was part of the test team for the car's development, he admitted it fell well short in it's brief to be on terms (specifically from a chassis dynamics perspective) to any of the 996/997 range. I'd concur, a sports car it was not.
355 better than a 360 ? Hmmm .... Is it prettier ? Well, that's entirely subjective, and personally I don't think the 355 has aged that well, sure it harks back to Ferrari designs of old better than anything built by Ferrari since, but looks ain't everything, and the 360 is dynamically superior in pretty much every possible way. But as it was the next evolution in V8 mid-engined Ferraris, it was always going to be...
I'd say the 360 is far better built than the 355, and the standard exhaust noise maybe indeed be somewhat anaemic, but that's easily addressed by fitting one of the plethora of aftermarket exhausts available for the car, my choice would be a Capristo, rather than fitting the ubiquitous (and overly strident) Challenge Stradale item.
Personally I find the standard 360 wheels along with the ride height the most compromised aspects of the car, but both are easily addressed with a set of 19" Challenge Stradale wheels and lowering the spring seats (or fitting a decent set of aftermarket springs from Novitec)
As you've said, it'd be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff ...
Slippydiff said:
Murph7355 said:
It'd be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff
I did 40k miles in my 355 over 5-6yrs. It was brilliant. Special in every way. The steering was a bit light, but it could be hustled properly.
A 360 is more modern, but that's not always a good thing. I found it a bit...anemic. The Challenge Stradale, IMO, is how the 360 should have been all along (albeit perhaps with the comfortable interior).
(Bought an Aston V8 Vantage to replace the 355. Also a very good car. Control weights better matched than the 355, very pretty car and a lovely cabin. Great noise. Don't have quite the same pangs when I see these. Think my other half preferred it though).
It would indeed be dull. I did 40k miles in my 355 over 5-6yrs. It was brilliant. Special in every way. The steering was a bit light, but it could be hustled properly.
A 360 is more modern, but that's not always a good thing. I found it a bit...anemic. The Challenge Stradale, IMO, is how the 360 should have been all along (albeit perhaps with the comfortable interior).
(Bought an Aston V8 Vantage to replace the 355. Also a very good car. Control weights better matched than the 355, very pretty car and a lovely cabin. Great noise. Don't have quite the same pangs when I see these. Think my other half preferred it though).
AM V8 V also a very good car ? I guess it depends on your point of reference. Having owned various 996/997 GT3's and GT2's over the years, I thought I fancied a change. And when an AM V8 V N400 appeared at an AM dealer in a fetching shade of metallic orange, I arranged a viewing/testdrive, and hotfoot it over there. What followed was probably the most disappointing test drive I've ever experienced.
Whilst the bare stats indicated the car should be something the equal of a N/A Porsche 996/997 GT car, the reality was very different. I'll give you the noise thing,and the pretty looks, along with the cachet of driving around in something thoroughly British, but beyond that, the car was hopeless dynamically.
Either the car weighed far more than it had any right to bearing in mind its construction (1630kg) or Aston's ponies aren't generously sized items (or both) So despite sounding wonderful, it felt positively pedestrian, even when its neck was being wrung.
I thought the control weights (something Porsche excel at) were abysmal, overly light steering with zero feel and little in the way of feedback, a stodgy clutch pedal and ridiculously long throttle pedal. The gearbox was "ok", but nothing more than that.
When the V8V was launched, it was lauded (by none other than Aston Martin ...) as a worthy opponent to Stuttgart's products.
The reality was very different, and having corresponded with an individual who was part of the test team for the car's development, he admitted it fell well short in it's brief to be on terms (specifically from a chassis dynamics perspective) to any of the 996/997 range. I'd concur, a sports car it was not.
355 better than a 360 ? Hmmm .... Is it prettier ? Well, that's entirely subjective, and personally I don't think the 355 has aged that well, sure it harks back to Ferrari designs of old better than anything built by Ferrari since, but looks ain't everything, and the 360 is dynamically superior in pretty much every possible way. But as it was the next evolution in V8 mid-engined Ferraris, it was always going to be...
I'd say the 360 is far better built than the 355, and the standard exhaust noise maybe indeed be somewhat anaemic, but that's easily addressed by fitting one of the plethora of aftermarket exhausts available for the car, my choice would be a Capristo, rather than fitting the ubiquitous (and overly strident) Challenge Stradale item.
Personally I find the standard 360 wheels along with the ride height the most compromised aspects of the car, but both are easily addressed with a set of 19" Challenge Stradale wheels and lowering the spring seats (or fitting a decent set of aftermarket springs from Novitec)
As you've said, it'd be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff ...
I find 996/997 911s as dull as it gets in the high end car dept especially in a grey or silver.
I quite like 355s but I am probably just about in the average age bracket that tends to appreciate them. Those who grew up with the 360 often prefer that and can struggle to see what the fuss is about the 355 with the little MR2 jibes.
The 355 is simply a better size for the road, but I think the 360 makes for a better car for euro tours etc. The boot space makes it really practical as well. To me the 360 is the car that is the blueprint for all modern supercars in terms of size/style.
I actually like my 360’s stock exhaust note, personally and wouldn’t describe it as anemic. It might be a bit too quiet in a coupe, though.
I’ve had a tubi exhaust - boomy at low revs and only nice at WOT. Came with the car but annoyed me quickly and makes the car sound more American V8.
Challenge stradale exhaust - a bit obnoxious for 2020, too loud for a spider but ok on a coupe if you like it loud and blaring. Made me afraid of driving it hard as it’s just so anti social. Not as tuneful as others. Returned to stock.
The tone of the capristo is great at full revs but they are really a bit much volume wise and I need my ears for my job.
The problem with stock is they are heavy and apparently quite restrictive flow wise, but sound wise it sounds like a V8 Ferrari should to me. I wish someone would make a sensible aftermarket exhaust to replace stock, as the insulation breaks up in the stock exhaust causing white dust in the engine bay over time.
The steering of the 360 is quite nice, but generally the car could communicate just little a bit more like a Porsche does. Some of this may be down to old tyre tech, but availability of modern tyres in the correct sizes for the 360 on 18s is limited.
The engine is just so special though compared to Porsche. When they come on cam around 4K ish all the way to the red line it’s simply a wonderful thing and just so much more special than most non Mezger Porsches.
The 360 is also a car that can still be enjoyed at sensible road speeds which is something to behold these days I feel. The F430 (great as they are and better in many ways of course!) has a different final drive to make the most of the torquier engine which results in faster in gear speeds.
A friend who owns a 360 just test drove an F8 yesterday and was quite happy to get back in his 360 as it was all too easy/fast....
Great stock exhaust video. Sounds great to me! https://youtu.be/p-kMrxEB9F8
The 355 is simply a better size for the road, but I think the 360 makes for a better car for euro tours etc. The boot space makes it really practical as well. To me the 360 is the car that is the blueprint for all modern supercars in terms of size/style.
I actually like my 360’s stock exhaust note, personally and wouldn’t describe it as anemic. It might be a bit too quiet in a coupe, though.
I’ve had a tubi exhaust - boomy at low revs and only nice at WOT. Came with the car but annoyed me quickly and makes the car sound more American V8.
Challenge stradale exhaust - a bit obnoxious for 2020, too loud for a spider but ok on a coupe if you like it loud and blaring. Made me afraid of driving it hard as it’s just so anti social. Not as tuneful as others. Returned to stock.
The tone of the capristo is great at full revs but they are really a bit much volume wise and I need my ears for my job.
The problem with stock is they are heavy and apparently quite restrictive flow wise, but sound wise it sounds like a V8 Ferrari should to me. I wish someone would make a sensible aftermarket exhaust to replace stock, as the insulation breaks up in the stock exhaust causing white dust in the engine bay over time.
The steering of the 360 is quite nice, but generally the car could communicate just little a bit more like a Porsche does. Some of this may be down to old tyre tech, but availability of modern tyres in the correct sizes for the 360 on 18s is limited.
The engine is just so special though compared to Porsche. When they come on cam around 4K ish all the way to the red line it’s simply a wonderful thing and just so much more special than most non Mezger Porsches.
The 360 is also a car that can still be enjoyed at sensible road speeds which is something to behold these days I feel. The F430 (great as they are and better in many ways of course!) has a different final drive to make the most of the torquier engine which results in faster in gear speeds.
A friend who owns a 360 just test drove an F8 yesterday and was quite happy to get back in his 360 as it was all too easy/fast....
Great stock exhaust video. Sounds great to me! https://youtu.be/p-kMrxEB9F8
TB303 said:
I quite like 355s but I am probably just about in the average age bracket that tends to appreciate them. Those who grew up with the 360 often prefer that and can struggle to see what the fuss is about the 355 with the little MR2 jibes.
The 355 is simply a better size for the road, but I think the 360 makes for a better car for euro tours etc. The boot space makes it really practical as well. To me the 360 is the car that is the blueprint for all modern supercars in terms of size/style.
I actually like my 360’s stock exhaust note, personally and wouldn’t describe it as anemic. It might be a bit too quiet in a coupe, though.
I’ve had a tubi exhaust - boomy at low revs and only nice at WOT. Came with the car but annoyed me quickly and makes the car sound more American V8.
Challenge stradale exhaust - a bit obnoxious for 2020, too loud for a spider but ok on a coupe if you like it loud and blaring. Made me afraid of driving it hard as it’s just so anti social. Not as tuneful as others. Returned to stock.
The tone of the capristo is great at full revs but they are really a bit much volume wise and I need my ears for my job.
The problem with stock is they are heavy and apparently quite restrictive flow wise, but sound wise it sounds like a V8 Ferrari should to me. I wish someone would make a sensible aftermarket exhaust to replace stock, as the insulation breaks up in the stock exhaust causing white dust in the engine bay over time.
The steering of the 360 is quite nice, but generally the car could communicate just little a bit more like a Porsche does. Some of this may be down to old tyre tech, but availability of modern tyres in the correct sizes for the 360 on 18s is limited.
The engine is just so special though compared to Porsche. When they come on cam around 4K ish all the way to the red line it’s simply a wonderful thing and just so much more special than most non Mezger Porsches.
The 360 is also a car that can still be enjoyed at sensible road speeds which is something to behold these days I feel. The F430 (great as they are and better in many ways of course!) has a different final drive to make the most of the torquier engine which results in faster in gear speeds.
A friend who owns a 360 just test drove an F8 yesterday and was quite happy to get back in his 360 as it was all too easy/fast....
Great stock exhaust video. Sounds great to me! https://youtu.be/p-kMrxEB9F8
The Cironi video is great, having watched it a few times over the last 12 months, you'd have to say the geometry on the car is either way out, or more likely the tyres (no doubt Pirelli Rossos) are probably years out of date and lacking any meaningful grip.The 355 is simply a better size for the road, but I think the 360 makes for a better car for euro tours etc. The boot space makes it really practical as well. To me the 360 is the car that is the blueprint for all modern supercars in terms of size/style.
I actually like my 360’s stock exhaust note, personally and wouldn’t describe it as anemic. It might be a bit too quiet in a coupe, though.
I’ve had a tubi exhaust - boomy at low revs and only nice at WOT. Came with the car but annoyed me quickly and makes the car sound more American V8.
Challenge stradale exhaust - a bit obnoxious for 2020, too loud for a spider but ok on a coupe if you like it loud and blaring. Made me afraid of driving it hard as it’s just so anti social. Not as tuneful as others. Returned to stock.
The tone of the capristo is great at full revs but they are really a bit much volume wise and I need my ears for my job.
The problem with stock is they are heavy and apparently quite restrictive flow wise, but sound wise it sounds like a V8 Ferrari should to me. I wish someone would make a sensible aftermarket exhaust to replace stock, as the insulation breaks up in the stock exhaust causing white dust in the engine bay over time.
The steering of the 360 is quite nice, but generally the car could communicate just little a bit more like a Porsche does. Some of this may be down to old tyre tech, but availability of modern tyres in the correct sizes for the 360 on 18s is limited.
The engine is just so special though compared to Porsche. When they come on cam around 4K ish all the way to the red line it’s simply a wonderful thing and just so much more special than most non Mezger Porsches.
The 360 is also a car that can still be enjoyed at sensible road speeds which is something to behold these days I feel. The F430 (great as they are and better in many ways of course!) has a different final drive to make the most of the torquier engine which results in faster in gear speeds.
A friend who owns a 360 just test drove an F8 yesterday and was quite happy to get back in his 360 as it was all too easy/fast....
Great stock exhaust video. Sounds great to me! https://youtu.be/p-kMrxEB9F8
Your comments on the lack of availability of decent/modern rubber for the 18" wheels are of course spot on, and the same issue afflicts the Mk1 996 GT3. Hence my suggestion that updating the car with a set of 19" Challenge Stradale wheels is the way forward, and they have the bonus of being a double whammy, they look more modern AND provide the owner with the opportunity to fit a plethora of more modern tyres (I'd go Michelin Pilot Supersports or 4S's every time).
I went through a long phase of thinking the 430 was the car for me, but as you've said, the 360 is more analogue, more tactile and more engaging than the newer car. And from my perspective, it's styling is better resolved from pretty much every angle.
unfortunately it's no real surprise your friend wasn't smitten with the F8, as you/he said, the modern stuff is all a bit too easy/Playstation like.
Slippydiff said:
unfortunately it's no real surprise your friend wasn't smitten with the F8, as you/he said, the modern stuff is all a bit too easy/Playstation like.
Whilst I know this is a Ferrari thread, so apologies in advance, but that last sentence sums exactly why I love my Gallardo over the Huracan. As the tech gets more advanced, the soul in the car starts to get more diluted. Slippydiff said:
...
Whilst the bare stats indicated the car should be something the equal of a N/A Porsche 996/997 GT car, the reality was very different. I'll give you the noise thing,and the pretty looks, along with the cachet of driving around in something thoroughly British, but beyond that, the car was hopeless dynamically.
Either the car weighed far more than it had any right to bearing in mind its construction (1630kg) or Aston's ponies aren't generously sized items (or both) So despite sounding wonderful, it felt positively pedestrian, even when its neck was being wrung.
I thought the control weights (something Porsche excel at) were abysmal, overly light steering with zero feel and little in the way of feedback, a stodgy clutch pedal and ridiculously long throttle pedal. The gearbox was "ok", but nothing more than that.....
Probably the wrong thread for it, but what he heck..Whilst the bare stats indicated the car should be something the equal of a N/A Porsche 996/997 GT car, the reality was very different. I'll give you the noise thing,and the pretty looks, along with the cachet of driving around in something thoroughly British, but beyond that, the car was hopeless dynamically.
Either the car weighed far more than it had any right to bearing in mind its construction (1630kg) or Aston's ponies aren't generously sized items (or both) So despite sounding wonderful, it felt positively pedestrian, even when its neck was being wrung.
I thought the control weights (something Porsche excel at) were abysmal, overly light steering with zero feel and little in the way of feedback, a stodgy clutch pedal and ridiculously long throttle pedal. The gearbox was "ok", but nothing more than that.....
No AM V8 Vantage is or was ever intended as a Porsche GT car rival (as in GT3, GT2 etc...GTS arguable). They're just not that type of car and if that was the expectation, disappointment was always going to await. (I've had a Caterham 7 for 25yrs...never fully "got" the GT/CS/etc thing
).I agree with you though that performance wise the car was never where it really ought to have been. As an 80-85k proposition, bearing in mind all the subjective things it excelled at (also bear in mind mine was issue free apart from some shoddy paintwork) it was a great car (had mine 8yrs). Of course list prices had it more often at 100k+ which I guess prompted the GT car comparisons made at the time, but I wonder how many paid that much (I certainly didn't for a new car). My experience of steering and clutch were polar opposite to yours - variable quality perhaps. Or just different reference points or preferences.
I love my 997 too. But it's certainly not the last word in controls (granted I have the "wrong" 911, a C4S....but usage patterns prompted that). Probably also light years away from a Porsche GT car too (and it's light years from my 7)...and I'd suggest that something like a C4S or a C2S was where Aston were pitching with with the V8V dynamically.
Anyway, it all matters not really. What it does underscore is that no matter what a prospective purchaser does, they must try and get some decent wheel time in one.
There's certainly nothing "wrong" with a 360. It's a good Ferrari. And Ferraris (with the odd exception) are great things that make the world a better place. If you have that itch about them, they'll get under your skin. I agree that different wheels, exhaust and ride height also make a lot of difference om 360s. I'd still buy a 355 though
As luck would have it, I’ve had a few of the cars listed here. They’re all great in a different way. My advice is to buy them all, one at a time...
If I had to choose one, it would depend on what I wanted the car for. If I was being pursued, and needed to get 1000 miles across Europe at pace using a mix of motorways and mountain roads, I’d take the Cali.
As if.
If I had to choose one, it would depend on what I wanted the car for. If I was being pursued, and needed to get 1000 miles across Europe at pace using a mix of motorways and mountain roads, I’d take the Cali.
As if.
Slippydiff said:
The Cironi video is great, having watched it a few times over the last 12 months, you'd have to say the geometry on the car is either way out, or more likely the tyres (no doubt Pirelli Rossos) are probably years out of date and lacking any meaningful grip.
Indeed.Slippydiff said:
Your comments on the lack of availability of decent/modern rubber for the 18" wheels are of course spot on, and the same issue afflicts the Mk1 996 GT3. Hence my suggestion that updating the car with a set of 19" Challenge Stradale wheels is the way forward, and they have the bonus of being a double whammy, they look more modern AND provide the owner with the opportunity to fit a plethora of more modern tyres (I'd go Michelin Pilot Supersports or 4S's every time).
Interestingly I was browsing ferrari chat and at the end of this thread someone suggests that the PS4S are available in the correct sizes in 18s. I had a quick google with no luck in finding some though....https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-tire...
I run PS4S on my 981 Boxster Spyder and would love to stick them on the 360 if I could.
Slippydiff said:
I went through a long phase of thinking the 430 was the car for me, but as you've said, the 360 is more analogue, more tactile and more engaging than the newer car. And from my perspective, it's styling is better resolved from pretty much every angle.
unfortunately it's no real surprise your friend wasn't smitten with the F8, as you/he said, the modern stuff is all a bit too easy/Playstation like.
Me too re: F430. I still look at them, and accept they are the "better" car. But it's hard to get a manual 430 and I'm not so mad on the sound compared to the 360 as well. I also don't feel the need to go any faster really. When I've driven 430s the handling is more resolved somehow, and I wonder how close you can get a 360 to that as it is fundamentally the same chassis afterall. unfortunately it's no real surprise your friend wasn't smitten with the F8, as you/he said, the modern stuff is all a bit too easy/Playstation like.
Looks wise I sort of prefer the front of the F430 overall and the rear of the 360.
67Dino said:
As luck would have it, I’ve had a few of the cars listed here. They’re all great in a different way. My advice is to buy them all, one at a time...
If I had to choose one, it would depend on what I wanted the car for. If I was being pursued, and needed to get 1000 miles across Europe at pace using a mix of motorways and mountain roads, I’d take the Cali.
As if.
I think the California is a bit like the Boxster in the sense that people criticise them, and it tends to be people who've never owned or driven one and those key reviewers who made their jibes. On the other hand I seem to remember Andrew Frankel loving it from launch. Friends I know who have driven them have really liked the California, and I see the same from owners on PH.If I had to choose one, it would depend on what I wanted the car for. If I was being pursued, and needed to get 1000 miles across Europe at pace using a mix of motorways and mountain roads, I’d take the Cali.
As if.
I've not tried one myself but would like to. In terms of target market, my wife is obsessed with original Californias so they got something right with the aim of it being targeted at women! (Sample size of one!)
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